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Chicago State Death Spiral
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teamvsn Online
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Post: #21
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
3,255 is a good solid number for the NAIA. It would be one of the bigger schools. There are a number of state schools this size (and smaller) in the NAIA. If they were to join, they would be able to cut their budget even more because of lower administrative and travel costs, and their teams would be more competitive. This might result in more on campus and alumni enthusiasm for their athletics program even if it's at a different level. No one likes going to watch your team lose. And CSU has some history in the NAIA. I remember they beat my alma mater in the '84 tournament. They will have some alumni with good memories of the NAIA.

That said, I am still skeptical they can join. There are danger signs that would need to be checked out, to make sure they're running a sound athletic program. And I think their accreditation has to be in good standing. I see this at the CSU web site: "As of June 30, 2016, Chicago State University has been placed on the sanction of Notice by the Higher Learning Commission because of concerns related to financial resources necessary to support institutional operations and educational programs and related to institutional planning."
02-28-2017 05:08 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Some updates on the maintenance problems at Chicago State, and the lack of transparency in Mr. Lucy's interim presidency.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

$1.2m for a temporary fix, still need to spend $3.5 for the boilers. $59m in needed maintenance. The new board members are already beginning to show they want better answers than the BS given.

The three holdover trustees are minister, a bible study ex-prof, and a corrupt businesswoman (Zoller's SafeSpeed crony company is a textbook example of how connections are used to funnel money to political insiders) are hardly models of what a board for a public school should have serving. It will be interesting to see if the newcomers can force Marshall Hatch to give up his chairmanship, as they want to name Vallas Chair immediately. Rauner pretty much called for that on January 17th. According to rules hatch would serve to December, but the reverend clearly does not enjoy the consent of the majority of the board. The Chair sets agenda, and that is why it's important.
03-03-2017 05:28 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
The budget impasse now hitting previously successful Governors State. But unlike CSU they have laid out measures that include trimming low enrollment majors to keep focus. Bad situation, and I wish both sides would come off their wont budge positions and cut the differences. A lot of things will get cut when they finally have a budget -- there is not enough money to pay for all things, but to date there is a reluctance to kill off any programs, so everyone is underfunded.

Anyway, no Chicago State financial collapse is complete without a fuller perspective of entire State
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html
03-08-2017 04:55 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #24
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Carnage at Governors State is 20 programs cut and 15% increase in tuition. Keep in mind Governors has been successfully financially managed (school accumulated rainy day funds years ago) and had been trending upwards. Hopefully that's not an indication worse is to come at Chicago State.
03-10-2017 05:43 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Fall 2017 likely to see enrollment drop to 3000

http://csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017...folks.html

In the above commentary report on Robert Bionaz's faculty blog (no name attributed), Fall 2017 applications are standing at 2600, compared to over 7000 in 2014 and 2015. Given the CSU yield rate is generally around 10% that would be even lower than the 296 (86) Freshmen they got this year. When applying the graduation and drop out rates, the Fall figure he arrives at is 3029. That would be a decline of 18% from the Fall 2016 number.

I arrive at a slightly lower number because I calculate 35 fewer students coming in, but late applications may increase that. So I think the estimate is a pretty good one. Not done in the article, but if you calculate the usual mid-year graduations and exits, by the time Basketball season rolls around next year, the total school population will likely be around 2750, and 1,000 of those will be grad students.

The application numbers should put to bed the "rapid" turn around notions for staying in D1. More realistic, the new board flushes house successfully, and then two years from now the numbers stop declining. To halt the decline both the number of applicants and the yield rates have to increase significantly, almost double.
03-10-2017 06:10 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
this could be good news, Vallas may be installed as interim President
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

The Watson holdouts are trying a last ditch effort to hang on, keep Lucy. Hopefully they fail and CSU begins the long road to recovery.
03-27-2017 02:52 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/
03-31-2017 03:33 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(03-31-2017 03:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/

They need leadership. Someone to make hard choices.
03-31-2017 04:02 PM
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RunnerBall Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(03-31-2017 03:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/
No work=no credit=no reason to attend.

Yah, weird, needs to be fixed FAST.

Currently mobile....but not necessarily upwardly.
03-31-2017 04:30 PM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(03-31-2017 04:30 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 03:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/
No work=no credit=no reason to attend.

Yah, weird, needs to be fixed FAST.

Currently mobile....but not necessarily upwardly.

The 2018 vote cant come soon enough. For the good of students and the school please stop this D1 insistence and go NAIA or shut down athletics for a little. Focus on whats most important. The WAC needs to stop enabling this foolishness
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2017 08:22 PM by SeattleVandals.)
03-31-2017 07:48 PM
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Lopes87 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(03-31-2017 04:30 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 03:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/
No work=no credit=no reason to attend.

Yah, weird, needs to be fixed FAST.

Currently mobile....but not necessarily upwardly.


Hope those kids/students don't get stuck with paying those loans back to the bank/FASFA for lack of leadership.
03-31-2017 09:23 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Interim President Cecil Lucy, who is not an academic has no PhD, claim to fame is as the finance guy. These are supposedly his areas of expertise.
04-01-2017 12:42 AM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
One thing that's for sure is they need new leadership. It really needs to be someone with no ties to any of the prior administrations. A new interim president should be announced in a week, and they'll also begin the search for a permanent president.

I noticed they announced a position of a new AD as well. Credit to Dildy for getting them (nearly) through this athletic year.
04-01-2017 09:44 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(03-31-2017 07:48 PM)SeattleVandals Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 04:30 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 03:33 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  This is getting silly. Chicago State did not pay it's bills for the online homework and assignment system. Students cannot turn in homework. csufacultyvoice.blogspot.com/2017/03/we-dont-pay-22000-bill-for-turnitin.html

Also an audit just showed the school has mishandled a whopping $51m in federal funds
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/csu...al-awards/
No work=no credit=no reason to attend.

Yah, weird, needs to be fixed FAST.

Currently mobile....but not necessarily upwardly.

The 2018 vote cant come soon enough. For the good of students and the school please stop this D1 insistence and go NAIA or shut down athletics for a little. Focus on whats most important. The WAC needs to stop enabling this foolishness

There is no question about the mismanagement at Chicago State. But any board changes and leadership changes will have zero impact without money. The state owes Chicago State about $40 million. They need that money and new leadership to make the improvements that are needed.

As far as not paying vendors, if you have ever worked at a business or company that was struggling or failing, not paying vendors is very common. The state of Illinois owes about $11 billion to vendors:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

The Illinois state budget crisis is effecting everyone in the state. So it is not surprising that something didn't get paid that should have been paid at a place like Chicago State.

The WAC membership will likely be extended and Chicago State has no incentive to drop down or eliminate athletics. The WAC still needs D1 members and some of Chicago State's issues get resolved if they can ever pass a state budget in Illinois. No school drops down from D1. It is extremely rare.
04-01-2017 01:16 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Why do you think the WAC will extend Chicago State? It has not happened, and the year is nearly over. It wont happen next year. It has to be now or never. There is not a single President or Chancellor in the WAC who supports keeping Chicago State. And the league openly says that Chicago State is not in compliance with their current contract.

As for what Chicago State does after losing conference affiliation, who knows? Not the WAC's concern. NAIA (with D-II Basketball) Chicagoland makes the most sense, fitting their budget and location.

Reality is Chicago State has not been renewed, not been extended, and wont be.
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 05:47 PM by Stugray2.)
04-02-2017 05:47 PM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-02-2017 05:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Why do you think the WAC will extend Chicago State? It has not happened, and the year is nearly over. It wont happen next year. It has to be now or never. There is not a single President or Chancellor in the WAC who supports keeping Chicago State. And the league openly says that Chicago State is not in compliance with their current contract.

As for what Chicago State does after losing conference affiliation, who knows? Not the WAC's concern. NAIA (with D-II Basketball) Chicagoland makes the most sense, fitting their budget and location.

Reality is Chicago State has not been renewed, not been extended, and wont be.

Stu, unless you have some inside source, which I doubt is the case, there is no certainty in what you're saying.

I'm not disagreeing to the fact that they've failed to meet certain conditions for membership, but they are finally on track to get some of these done. It's unfortunate it has been pushed off so long but the track renovations should be completed by now or very soon. They're working on an on campus soccer field and the JCC renovations. Still need some movement in the men's soccer coach which has been on their budget request for years.

The WAC may have CBU coming in 18-19, but they're still far from stable with so few members and the everchanging landscape.

I'm with SoCal and see CSU maintaining WAC membership. In fact, the school should have an UBC meeting this month in which WAC membership should come up. We should know more afterwards.
04-02-2017 08:23 PM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-02-2017 08:23 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 05:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Why do you think the WAC will extend Chicago State? It has not happened, and the year is nearly over. It wont happen next year. It has to be now or never. There is not a single President or Chancellor in the WAC who supports keeping Chicago State. And the league openly says that Chicago State is not in compliance with their current contract.

As for what Chicago State does after losing conference affiliation, who knows? Not the WAC's concern. NAIA (with D-II Basketball) Chicagoland makes the most sense, fitting their budget and location.

Reality is Chicago State has not been renewed, not been extended, and wont be.

Stu, unless you have some inside source, which I doubt is the case, there is no certainty in what you're saying.

I'm not disagreeing to the fact that they've failed to meet certain conditions for membership, but they are finally on track to get some of these done. It's unfortunate it has been pushed off so long but the track renovations should be completed by now or very soon. They're working on an on campus soccer field and the JCC renovations. Still need some movement in the men's soccer coach which has been on their budget request for years.

The WAC may have CBU coming in 18-19, but they're still far from stable with so few members and the everchanging landscape.

I'm with SoCal and see CSU maintaining WAC membership. In fact, the school should have an UBC meeting this month in which WAC membership should come up. We should know more afterwards.

What are the renovations JCC needs? Its only 10 years old? If they are being talked about and brought up like this, they have to be major. Whats the deal?
04-02-2017 10:35 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts Chicago State is not retained. You don't need special inside knowledge to read the signs.

The thing is, if Chicago State is not given an extension, there will be no announcement. This will stay private likely into the fall. The logic is inescapable. 6 Presidents/Chancellors must vote for an extension or renewal, or removal of the probationary status. It's not Hurd's call, and even if it were he has been very careful in his wording, not committing at all to retaining Chicago State, even when asked point blank. "We are monitoring the situation"
04-03-2017 01:57 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-03-2017 01:57 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I'll bet dollars to doughnuts Chicago State is not retained. You don't need special inside knowledge to read the signs.

The thing is, if Chicago State is not given an extension, there will be no announcement. This will stay private likely into the fall. The logic is inescapable. 6 Presidents/Chancellors must vote for an extension or renewal, or removal of the probationary status. It's not Hurd's call, and even if it were he has been very careful in his wording, not committing at all to retaining Chicago State, even when asked point blank. "We are monitoring the situation"

Since you decided to take Hurd's statement out of context, I thought I would provide the full article:

http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/c.../82667500/

As Hurd states in the article, they are monitoring the state budget crisis and that neither the WAC or Chicago State has any control in this process. He also stated in the article that he is very happy with the current membership.

No one, Presidents or Hurd, has come out and said Chicago State is not being extended. That is in your mind. Most of the schools in the WAC gained entrance due to the WAC weakness at the time. The WAC was barely hanging on as a conference at the time. It is not wise to let D1 schools go unless you have replacements. The WAC does not at this point. The WAC still needs to add membership, not drop membership.

Every conference commissioner is monitoring dozen of situations within their conference and outside of their conference. The Summit League is monitoring the Illinois state budget crisis because it effects Western Illinois.

The budget crisis has kept them from completing projects that were part of the contract. Chicago State has said that they intend to complete the soccer field and hire a soccer coach. I just can't see the WAC dropping Chicago State because they are not in compliance with the contract. It is more likely that they get an extension. The WAC is still not healthy enough as a conference to drop any school.
04-03-2017 08:13 AM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Ben-- It seems to be just the replacement of the basketball floor itself. I'm not sure how often a typical floor will last.. but I know it gets a lot of use by other tournaments using it.
04-03-2017 06:03 PM
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