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UCSD wants Big West
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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UCSD wants Big West
Quote:In getting the faculty’s approval, UCSD completed the second phase of what Athletic Director Earl Edwards calls the “trifecta” of the process to move to Div. I. Next up is being accepted into a conference, and UCSD has applied for inclusion into the Big West, a nine-school league that includes four UC schools, four Cal State universities and Hawaii.

Big West Commissioner Dennis Farrell said a decision on UCSD’s application to join likely will be considered and voted on by mid-March. At least seven of the nine schools, represented by their chancellors and presidents, need to vote “yes” to accept the Tritons.

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So I do not see them as a possible WAC member.
01-25-2017 11:39 AM
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gleadley Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-25-2017 11:39 AM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
Quote:In getting the faculty’s approval, UCSD completed the second phase of what Athletic Director Earl Edwards calls the “trifecta” of the process to move to Div. I. Next up is being accepted into a conference, and UCSD has applied for inclusion into the Big West, a nine-school league that includes four UC schools, four Cal State universities and Hawaii.

Big West Commissioner Dennis Farrell said a decision on UCSD’s application to join likely will be considered and voted on by mid-March. At least seven of the nine schools, represented by their chancellors and presidents, need to vote “yes” to accept the Tritons.

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So I do not see them as a possible WAC member.

Everybody WANTS something. I guess we will learn in the next 45-60 days if the BW feels the same way.
01-25-2017 12:03 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
Yes we will know after the Big West Tournament which way the wind blows.

I'm moving the betting line from 50-50 to 65-35 for Big West invite
01-25-2017 04:22 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
I wonder if Denver and UC-San Diego talked would they be willing to move back to the conference together? NMSU, Seattle, UMKC are all right there academically with UC-San Diego. How does UTRGV rate? I know the biggest problem academically is Grand Canyon and the fact that they are for profit does not help. If UC-San Diego was rejected by the Big West would they consider talking to Denver and come over as a package deal?
01-25-2017 04:41 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-25-2017 04:41 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I wonder if Denver and UC-San Diego talked would they be willing to move back to the conference together? NMSU, Seattle, UMKC are all right there academically with UC-San Diego. How does UTRGV rate? I know the biggest problem academically is Grand Canyon and the fact that they are for profit does not help. If UC-San Diego was rejected by the Big West would they consider talking to Denver and come over as a package deal?

CBU is suppose to have high academics as well!
01-25-2017 05:09 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
Denver is not happening.

They are a Hockey school (NCHC) along with Omaha and North Dakota (also NCHC). Secondly they are a Lacrosse school (Big East for both Mens and Womens). Thirdly a Skiing school, all of which the WAC does not matter. More important 31% of the student body comes from the Great Lakes and Northeast, only 18% from the West. They look and recruit Eastward (even their 4% South region is heavily DC burbs). There really is no reason to switch. They are a wealthy school that is not going to make a decision based on a $300K per year difference in travel expenses.

UVU, UTRGV, CSUB all rate poor, CSU a whole different category of bad. GCU another unacceptable. CBU is probably a wash with ORU. That is just a too many schools Denver is not comfortable with.

I would suggest keeping an eye on Azusa Pacific. North Dakota moving to the MVFC potentially opens a Football Conference spot for APU, which could allow them to join CBU in the WAC. That is probably a year or two away, but worth looking into.

Far down the line, past 2023 time frame, I like three Colorado Schools: Regis (Jesuit, only 12 sports now, but right size and flush with money), Colorado Christian (a growing Denver suburban school, ambitious, good fund raising -- they will grow), and U of Colorado at Colorado Springs (growing steadily, will be above 10K students before middle of next decade; but gym they built is too small, D2 focused, could be an issue). Seattle Pacific is still transitioning in D-II, but they also seem to have the right components for moving up next decade.

Portland State is on the watch list because Football is less than secure long term. I think there will be a few options for the WAC in the next decade. But unless UCSD is not offered by the Big West or Azusa Pacific decides to move up sooner rather than later, there is not much available. But on the flip side, UMKC, UTRGV and NMSU -because they want to keep their options open for FBS Football- are not likely going anywhere for the next four or five years. Even dumping Chicago State should see them a stable 8 schools for awhile.
01-25-2017 05:16 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-25-2017 04:22 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Yes we will know after the Big West Tournament which way the wind blows.

I'm moving the betting line from 50-50 to 65-35 for Big West invite

The line moved from 99-1 to 99.9999-0.0001.
01-25-2017 05:48 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
"Though experiencing a downward ebb this season, the conference had four men’s basketball teams ranked in the top 100 in RPI in 2015-16; Hawaii’s women’s volleyball team made it to the NCAA Elite Eight in 2015; three different baseball teams have made it to the College World Series in successive years.

So the conference doesn’t see UCSD bringing a huge, immediate upside – as it did when San Diego State and Boise State considered joining when those schools thought they were headed for the Big East in football."

“In the sports that are important to us I think we’ve got a pretty good reputation nationally,” Farrell said. “So I don’t think the pressure is there for us to move (to expand) if we don’t want to. It’s not going to make us look bad.”

Farrell said one other negative consideration -- though it’s mostly a short-term issue – is the possible effect on RPI ratings for the other Big West schools as UCSD adjusts to being competitive at the Div. I level."


Sounds like RPI is a consideration, albeit a minor one.
01-25-2017 06:39 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
The thing is the Big West doesn't have a CIC like parallel organization the B1G has, or that the P12 and Ivy have without the formally separate name. So athletics may actually play a role. Farrell hinted as much. The Sun Belt taught me a lesson about the limits of academic choice versus sports or that case geographic need.

That is why my line is 65-35. If the Big West had a CIC like organization, it would be 99-1. The line will move with each statement from Big West schools, the CSU schools especially, who lack a research component in their missions.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2017 07:27 PM by Stugray2.)
01-25-2017 07:25 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
As stated before, UCSD has been granted affiliate membership in the Big West for men's volleyball, so the Big West could start sponsoring it and get its own autobid. The Big West could have chose from a myriad of small So Cal schools, like Concordia-Irvine, but chose UCSD as they will be a full member anyway. The move doesn't screw up the MPSF's autobid, as they had time to add another school.
01-25-2017 09:36 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-25-2017 05:09 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(01-25-2017 04:41 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  I wonder if Denver and UC-San Diego talked would they be willing to move back to the conference together? NMSU, Seattle, UMKC are all right there academically with UC-San Diego. How does UTRGV rate? I know the biggest problem academically is Grand Canyon and the fact that they are for profit does not help. If UC-San Diego was rejected by the Big West would they consider talking to Denver and come over as a package deal?

CBU is suppose to have high academics as well!

CBU doesn't have much research, so that threw them out.
01-25-2017 09:37 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-25-2017 05:16 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Denver is not happening.

They are a Hockey school (NCHC) along with Omaha and North Dakota (also NCHC). Secondly they are a Lacrosse school (Big East for both Mens and Womens). Thirdly a Skiing school, all of which the WAC does not matter. More important 31% of the student body comes from the Great Lakes and Northeast, only 18% from the West. They look and recruit Eastward (even their 4% South region is heavily DC burbs). There really is no reason to switch. They are a wealthy school that is not going to make a decision based on a $300K per year difference in travel expenses.

UVU, UTRGV, CSUB all rate poor, CSU a whole different category of bad. GCU another unacceptable. CBU is probably a wash with ORU. That is just a too many schools Denver is not comfortable with.

I would suggest keeping an eye on Azusa Pacific. North Dakota moving to the MVFC potentially opens a Football Conference spot for APU, which could allow them to join CBU in the WAC. That is probably a year or two away, but worth looking into.

Far down the line, past 2023 time frame, I like three Colorado Schools: Regis (Jesuit, only 12 sports now, but right size and flush with money), Colorado Christian (a growing Denver suburban school, ambitious, good fund raising -- they will grow), and U of Colorado at Colorado Springs (growing steadily, will be above 10K students before middle of next decade; but gym they built is too small, D2 focused, could be an issue). Seattle Pacific is still transitioning in D-II, but they also seem to have the right components for moving up next decade.

Portland State is on the watch list because Football is less than secure long term. I think there will be a few options for the WAC in the next decade. But unless UCSD is not offered by the Big West or Azusa Pacific decides to move up sooner rather than later, there is not much available. But on the flip side, UMKC, UTRGV and NMSU -because they want to keep their options open for FBS Football- are not likely going anywhere for the next four or five years. Even dumping Chicago State should see them a stable 8 schools for awhile.


I could see Colorado Mesa on the list as a possible move up and Dixie State as well. Both schools are doing some work on their facilities. West Texas A&M is also on the watch list as well. They are building an on campus stadium that could seat in the future over 22,000. I think they might be having plans on rejoining D1 and get back to 1A or FBS as well. They were former conference mates with New Mexico State. I wonder if they are doing this to move up to help New Mexico State out in the future?
Central Washington have also been doing some work and Western Washington might want to move up. GNAC is only down to 5 footbaall schools as well speak.
Central Washington
Simon Fraser
Western Oregon
Azusa Pacific
Humboldt State
They lost South Dakota Mines and Dixie State in recent years. WAC and Big Sky could do a joint effort in the future about football schools.

Big Sky could add the 5 GNAC schools for football only and WAC could get the 5 schools for the other sports.

Simon Fraser-British Columbia, Canada
Azusa Pacific-Azusa, California
Humboldt State- Arcata, California
Central Washington-Ellensburg
Western Oregon-Monmouth

Maybe Colorado Mesa-Grand Junction, Dixie State-Saint George, West Texas A&M-Canyon outside of Amarillo, Colorado Mines -Silver.
01-26-2017 08:05 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
You did not do much research to come up with your list. WWU and CWU, like CPP, are all a bit under D-II budget averages. They would need to raise $6-7m a year in student fees (about $400 a year per student) to pay for a move up (assuming $3m comes from somewhere else). Such is the gap between their budgets and the average D-I budget (without FB), about $10m per year. Good luck passing an increase even half of that. That is simply not an easy task for public schools, especially in States like CO, WA, OR, CA where a student vote is required.

Public schools with Football (Mesa, Dixie State) are even more difficult. Your mention of Humboldt State is beyond laughable. You clearly have not the slightest clue about the Cal State system. As for Simon Frazier ... not happening, there wont be a Canadian school nor a Hawai'i or Alaska school for that matter. As for Central Time Zone, I have not seen one that is a WAC Candidate. The best metrics for that region belong to Fort Hayes State (western Kansas) and Central Missouri, but they make more sense for the Summit and Missouri Valley Football -- if the students want to pay fees.

You cannot simply throw names out. It's a business and you have to research the business case for each. Schools with limited budgets, especially public ones, just wont move. It is what it is.

Azusa Pacific is the only school close. But NCAA rules will not allow them to apply for transition until their 8 years in D-II is up in June 2019. So 2020-21 is the absolute earliest they can transition to D-I, and that assumes the Big Sky would be willing to take their football or they transition it over to Pioneer. All this assumes they are interested.

The schools I listed do not have Football and are growing - except Regis who is simply a better school. But the Heartland for the religious schools looks like a sort of Plains Midwest version of the WCC at D-II level, a comfortable home for such schools of like mission (DBU and St. Mary's and St. Edwards are in it as well as Regis, Colorado Christian and Drury). There is no pressure to move. Throwing maybe Seattle Pacific in the mix, you are probably a decade off for all these schools.

The WAC is probably done for awhile, barring the Big West rejecting UCSD, excepting that Chicago State wont be renewed. New Mexico State will look for a home, and everyone else is fixed in place. In two years we may be talking about APU considering a move up, as they become eligible to do so, but for now nothing.
01-26-2017 06:05 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-26-2017 06:05 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  You did not do much research to come up with your list. WWU and CWU, like CPP, are all a bit under D-II budget averages. They would need to raise $6-7m a year in student fees (about $400 a year per student) to pay for a move up (assuming $3m comes from somewhere else). Such is the gap between their budgets and the average D-I budget (without FB), about $10m per year. Good luck passing an increase even half of that. That is simply not an easy task for public schools, especially in States like CO, WA, OR, CA where a student vote is required.

Public schools with Football (Mesa, Dixie State) are even more difficult. Your mention of Humboldt State is beyond laughable. You clearly have not the slightest clue about the Cal State system. As for Simon Frazier ... not happening, there wont be a Canadian school nor a Hawai'i or Alaska school for that matter. As for Central Time Zone, I have not seen one that is a WAC Candidate. The best metrics for that region belong to Fort Hayes State (western Kansas) and Central Missouri, but they make more sense for the Summit and Missouri Valley Football -- if the students want to pay fees.

You cannot simply throw names out. It's a business and you have to research the business case for each. Schools with limited budgets, especially public ones, just wont move. It is what it is.

Azusa Pacific is the only school close. But NCAA rules will not allow them to apply for transition until their 8 years in D-II is up in June 2019. So 2020-21 is the absolute earliest they can transition to D-I, and that assumes the Big Sky would be willing to take their football or they transition it over to Pioneer. All this assumes they are interested.

The schools I listed do not have Football and are growing - except Regis who is simply a better school. But the Heartland for the religious schools looks like a sort of Plains Midwest version of the WCC at D-II level, a comfortable home for such schools of like mission (DBU and St. Mary's and St. Edwards are in it as well as Regis, Colorado Christian and Drury). There is no pressure to move. Throwing maybe Seattle Pacific in the mix, you are probably a decade off for all these schools.

The WAC is probably done for awhile, barring the Big West rejecting UCSD, excepting that Chicago State wont be renewed. New Mexico State will look for a home, and everyone else is fixed in place. In two years we may be talking about APU considering a move up, as they become eligible to do so, but for now nothing.


As it is, the GNAC is hurting for football schools and those 5 could help being at the FCS level. Dixie State is growing as fast as Utah Valley right now. They just got a very large donation to expand their football stadium to 10,000 seats. Humbold and Azusa needs to be with the Big Sky football schools. That would be 5 right there. Central Washington did got money together to do some upgrades to their football stadium and other facilities. Colorado Mesa did add Beach Volleyball and did some facilities upgrades. Simon Fraser wants to go D1 for hockey.
I do not see Seattle Pacific going to the WAC for any sports because of Seattle already is there.
As it is, the NCAA D1 council had meetings the past couple of years which they invited D2 schools to take part in. With schools like California is losing a lot of money, the NCAA might be relaxing some of their stricter rules to allow schools from D2 to move up, and some conferences from FCS to be FBS. GNAC schools could actually do help the Big Sky schools in ways as well. GNAC schools could also get more money for playing FBS schools if they were part of the FCS which could help add to their coffers,.
01-26-2017 10:25 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
The relaxing of rules is meant to cut costs, not to increase the number of schools in D1. There is already considerable grumbling from power schools about D1 being bloated with D2 schools - too many mouths already, and everyone wants to call themselves D1. You are simply reading your own desire to have move ups into the concept of relaxing rules. This has more to do with tings like allowing schools with 8 or 9 sports due to budget cuts to remain in D-II or to allow counting of Pioneer style non-scholarship sports as in your D2 count.

There will not be any CA move ups from public schools. I don't care what bad acid trip you are on, it is impossible. There reasons are many and so entrenched that UCSD's vote by the students is simply an amazing anomaly (if you understand the difference in the demographics of that school, and pick any CSU, you will realize why it's a one off)
01-27-2017 05:02 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: UCSD wants Big West
(01-27-2017 05:02 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The relaxing of rules is meant to cut costs, not to increase the number of schools in D1. There is already considerable grumbling from power schools about D1 being bloated with D2 schools - too many mouths already, and everyone wants to call themselves D1. You are simply reading your own desire to have move ups into the concept of relaxing rules. This has more to do with tings like allowing schools with 8 or 9 sports due to budget cuts to remain in D-II or to allow counting of Pioneer style non-scholarship sports as in your D2 count.

There will not be any CA move ups from public schools. I don't care what bad acid trip you are on, it is impossible. There reasons are many and so entrenched that UCSD's vote by the students is simply an amazing anomaly (if you understand the difference in the demographics of that school, and pick any CSU, you will realize why it's a one off)

As it is, there are way too many D1 basketball schools and not enough football schools in the area. Most of the D1 schools are east of the Mississippi. You do have Bentley, Merrimack, and Southern New Hampshire talking to east coast conferences to move up. Lone Star Texas schools are looking into moving up to D1 as well. As it is, California is bleeding cash big time in all of their sports. Adding the 5 GNAC schools could help the schools like California to save money. As it is, there are some schools got caught doing a FCOAs at the D2 level. My alma Mater of Arkansas Tech is one of them and is on probation for Football, men and women's basketball, baseball and several other sports. Those are the schools that could do this could be future D1 schools. West Texas A&M used to be a conference mate and former FBS school that dropped to D2 that is on probation for football.

http://www.wtamu.edu/about/student-stadi...d-faq.aspx

So, the construction of the brand new stadium would be this spring for a 12,000 seat, and be open by fall of 2018. The stadium capacity could go between 16,000 to 22,000 which would be bigger than some of the FBS schools. I do think the students want to take West Texas A&M to D1 in the future, and as what I have read about what the New Mexico State's head basketball coach said, football schools could be added. With the history between New Mexico State and West Texas A&M for all sports? I would not be surprise if the WAC schools make a vote that West Texas A&M would be voted in for all sports for the fall of 2017 and be as an affiliate to either Southland or Big Sky for football. This could ensure New Mexico State to stay longer in the WAC.
01-27-2017 06:24 AM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #17
RE: UCSD wants Big West
I'm afraid this thread is morphing into another fantasy dumb realignment thread based on "alternative facts". WAC football is not going to happen with any of those schools listed. Back to UC-San Diego. They are going to be forced to join the WAC if the Big West does not want them. I hope that happens because the WAC needs more teams and two, sounds like they need to eat some humble pie.
01-27-2017 12:15 PM
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