Cronin's done incredibly well finding really good players who were under-recruited. That he's built a top 25 program out of top 50 recruiting classes is remarkable. But the only reliable way to jump to that next level as a program is to recruit better talent. Top 10 teams have future NBA players on them, and those kids are almost always easy to spot in high school and, yes, loved by the internet.

I get that recruiting top 20 kids to UC is difficult right now (it always has been, really), and so Cronin's recruiting strategy is a pretty good one (I will note that he got Cumberland, the best player in the region last year, so it looks like he's still trying to get top recruits so long as they have some connection here that gives UC a real chance). And in the last couple years he's supplemented that strategy by adding top-flight transfers. But to become a top 15 team, UC will have to be better than a bunch of teams who have more talent. That's very hard to do in any given year, and really impossible over any appreciable period of time.

(01-24-2017 10:11 AM)JunctaJuvant Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:17 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  As we SEE our LOCAL football RECRUITS are KILLING the INTERNET recruiting for our program. WAS this a CHEAP SHOT at out football program??? I've NEVER seen one our local basketball players or ANY uc basketball coach talk up UC on internet. Ive been saying for about 4-5yrs now mick dont need jet to recruit all he needs is laptop. You can be in 2500 kids living rooms 100x a day by Twitter. Someone in administration or possibly LF can have sit down with him on how HUGE social networking is for team that doesn't play EVERY week on ESPN!

I think you are reading this all wrong. Cronin said he doesn't recruit FOR the internet. At no point did he say he doesn't recruit WITH the internet. He was on board Social Media for recruiting from the Start. He simply meant he is going to recruit kids who he thinks can contribute to the program, not because "Glen from Mason" or because "GoCats99" likes a kid with a 4 star ranking.

Based on the endless recruiting debate that has taken place for years on this board, pretty sure Glen From Mason is very happy with UC recruiting.



(this post is an example of sarcasm by the way)

Cronin is an above-average coach overall, but there's a definite ceiling to his recruiting, and it by extension becomes a ceiling on the on-court results. He's makes the tournament every year, but does it with teams that are nibbling around the edge of the Top 25, and NOT a threat to go deep or win it all.

Some fans are satisfied with this level; others aren't. I've quit worrying about it, because it's not going to change for the foreseeable future, unless and until a P5 football school with mediocre basketball decides Mick's record looks pretty darned appealing, and decides to buy him away from us.

(01-24-2017 11:05 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Cronin is an above-average coach overall, but there's a definite ceiling to his recruiting, and it by extension becomes a ceiling on the on-court results. He's makes the tournament every year, but does it with teams that are nibbling around the edge of the Top 25, and NOT a threat to go deep or win it all.

Some fans are satisfied with this level; others aren't. I've quit worrying about it, because it's not going to change for the foreseeable future, unless and until a P5 football school with mediocre basketball decides Mick's record looks pretty darned appealing, and decides to buy him away from us.

But if that were to happen, it would almost surely be a change for the worse. I don't see any replacement coach being able to improve on what Cronin has done. I'm hopeful that the new arena will boost recruiting a bit. We'll see.

(01-24-2017 11:12 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:05 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Cronin is an above-average coach overall, but there's a definite ceiling to his recruiting, and it by extension becomes a ceiling on the on-court results. He's makes the tournament every year, but does it with teams that are nibbling around the edge of the Top 25, and NOT a threat to go deep or win it all.

Some fans are satisfied with this level; others aren't. I've quit worrying about it, because it's not going to change for the foreseeable future, unless and until a P5 football school with mediocre basketball decides Mick's record looks pretty darned appealing, and decides to buy him away from us.

But if that were to happen, it would almost surely be a change for the worse. I don't see any replacement coach being able to improve on what Cronin has done. I'm hopeful that the new arena will boost recruiting a bit. We'll see.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Yes, there is always downside risk. But did I believe someone could do better than Dantonio with UC football? I for one, would never have suggested his replacement would exceed his performance but back-to-back BCS bowls and an undefeated BCS conference season proved me wrong. I would argue our basketball program has even more upside potential.

I want Mick to succeed. I also believe other coaches can and will be successful at Cincinnati when he retires.

(01-24-2017 11:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:12 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:05 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Cronin is an above-average coach overall, but there's a definite ceiling to his recruiting, and it by extension becomes a ceiling on the on-court results. He's makes the tournament every year, but does it with teams that are nibbling around the edge of the Top 25, and NOT a threat to go deep or win it all.

Some fans are satisfied with this level; others aren't. I've quit worrying about it, because it's not going to change for the foreseeable future, unless and until a P5 football school with mediocre basketball decides Mick's record looks pretty darned appealing, and decides to buy him away from us.

But if that were to happen, it would almost surely be a change for the worse. I don't see any replacement coach being able to improve on what Cronin has done. I'm hopeful that the new arena will boost recruiting a bit. We'll see.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Yes, there is always downside risk. But did I believe someone could do better than Dantonio with UC football? I for one, would never have suggested his replacement would exceed his performance but back-to-back BCS bowls and an undefeated BCS conference season proved me wrong. I would argue our basketball program has even more upside potential.

I want Mick to succeed. I also believe other coaches can and will be successful at Cincinnati when he retires.

I don't think the comparisons to football or Dantonio are at all good ones. In any case, yes, UC could get the basketball equivalent of Brian Kelly (I think hiring Huggins in '89 fits that mold) to replace Cronin and have a great run. That's why I qualified my statement. I just think that it's very unlikely. There are a ton more Tubervilles and Tony Yates' than there are Huggins' and Kellys.

And I agree with you that other coaches can and will be successful here when Cronin is gone. But the question is whether they will be better than he is. I want to win a title too, but I also don't want to miss the tournament for 5 or 10 years.

(01-24-2017 09:17 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  As we SEE our LOCAL football RECRUITS are KILLING the INTERNET recruiting for our program. WAS this a CHEAP SHOT at out football program??? I've NEVER seen one our local basketball players or ANY uc basketball coach talk up UC on internet. Ive been saying for about 4-5yrs now mick dont need jet to recruit all he needs is laptop. You can be in 2500 kids living rooms 100x a day by Twitter. Someone in administration or possibly LF can have sit down with him on how HUGE social networking is for team that doesn't play EVERY week on ESPN!

Mick was talking about how his coaching staff handles internet social media stuff, not what recruits do with it. Bball is totally different than Football. Talking about 3 commits vs 23 commits (in football).

ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

(01-24-2017 02:39 PM)digibrink Wrote:  ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

I think there is some truth to this. The only alternative is to keep winning big. Climb into the top 15 this season, get past the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament, generate some buzz for '17/'18 preseason and TV will come calling with some attractive matchups.

(01-24-2017 03:11 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:39 PM)digibrink Wrote:  ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

I think there is some truth to this. The only alternative is to keep winning big. Climb into the top 15 this season, get past the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament, generate some buzz for '17/'18 preseason and TV will come calling with some attractive matchups.

I too believe ESPN "doesn't like" UC. If we are being honest, if our TV ratings were half-way decent there would be no way they could deny us. In football Boise State frequently gets a made-for-TV game and that is because they draw national ratings. In basketball, when Butler was in the Horizon League they got made-for-TV games.

We haven't done a very good job growing the brand outside of I-275 and it doesn't help that half the town are fans of other programs.

I think people are reading into things way too much. Plenty of **** programs get more coverage than we do.
When it comes to Cronin and recruiting, I think you also have to evaluate our ability to recruit based on the school itself, not just the coach.
Still, I think he's taken on some very good talent as of late and feel there's been an uptick the past couple years in recruiting. At least as far as basketball goes. Evans, Clark, Caupain and it looks like Williams next year are all pretty good talents.

(01-24-2017 01:18 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 09:17 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  As we SEE our LOCAL football RECRUITS are KILLING the INTERNET recruiting for our program. WAS this a CHEAP SHOT at out football program??? I've NEVER seen one our local basketball players or ANY uc basketball coach talk up UC on internet. Ive been saying for about 4-5yrs now mick dont need jet to recruit all he needs is laptop. You can be in 2500 kids living rooms 100x a day by Twitter. Someone in administration or possibly LF can have sit down with him on how HUGE social networking is for team that doesn't play EVERY week on ESPN!

Mick was talking about how his coaching staff handles internet social media stuff, not what recruits do with it. Bball is totally different than Football. Talking about 3 commits vs 23 commits (in football).

No different. Every top player in football and basketball use social media. If anything it should be easier for him to recruit. Like the local kid from colerain said, no COLLEGE in AMERICA have what we have from downtown to Clifton

(01-24-2017 02:39 PM)digibrink Wrote:  ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

This our 1st time being this good in 4yrs. Your product CONTROL ESPN not other way around. I wouldn't break my neck trying get a unranked team on my network either. Get into top 10 and get some future nba talent on roster, ESPN would come see you play in a alley FILLED with rats

(01-24-2017 06:37 PM)bulldog23 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:39 PM)digibrink Wrote:  ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

This our 1st time being this good in 4yrs. Your product CONTROL ESPN not other way around. I wouldn't break my neck trying get a unranked team on my network either. Get into top 10 and get some future nba talent on roster, ESPN would come see you play in a alley FILLED with rats

+1

There is no conspiracy.

(01-24-2017 09:16 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 06:37 PM)bulldog23 Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 02:39 PM)digibrink Wrote:  ESPN and tv contracts control any kind of marquee OOC matchup these days. UC is at the mercy of ESPN wanting to give them a marquee matchup and ESPN has done nothing but hurt UC for since they broke up the Big East.

This our 1st time being this good in 4yrs. Your product CONTROL ESPN not other way around. I wouldn't break my neck trying get a unranked team on my network either. Get into top 10 and get some future nba talent on roster, ESPN would come see you play in a alley FILLED with rats

+1

There is no conspiracy.

wrong
Ohio State keeps us off ESPN. I think they told ESPN if they show UC games, they will take their ball and go to Fox.

how the hell's mick throwing us all under the bus? screw that guy

(01-24-2017 12:28 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:40 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:12 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 11:05 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  Cronin is an above-average coach overall, but there's a definite ceiling to his recruiting, and it by extension becomes a ceiling on the on-court results. He's makes the tournament every year, but does it with teams that are nibbling around the edge of the Top 25, and NOT a threat to go deep or win it all.

Some fans are satisfied with this level; others aren't. I've quit worrying about it, because it's not going to change for the foreseeable future, unless and until a P5 football school with mediocre basketball decides Mick's record looks pretty darned appealing, and decides to buy him away from us.

But if that were to happen, it would almost surely be a change for the worse. I don't see any replacement coach being able to improve on what Cronin has done. I'm hopeful that the new arena will boost recruiting a bit. We'll see.

I see your point, but I'm not sure I agree. Yes, there is always downside risk. But did I believe someone could do better than Dantonio with UC football? I for one, would never have suggested his replacement would exceed his performance but back-to-back BCS bowls and an undefeated BCS conference season proved me wrong. I would argue our basketball program has even more upside potential.

I want Mick to succeed. I also believe other coaches can and will be successful at Cincinnati when he retires.

I don't think the comparisons to football or Dantonio are at all good ones. In any case, yes, UC could get the basketball equivalent of Brian Kelly (I think hiring Huggins in '89 fits that mold) to replace Cronin and have a great run. That's why I qualified my statement. I just think that it's very unlikely. There are a ton more Tubervilles and Tony Yates' than there are Huggins' and Kellys.

And I agree with you that other coaches can and will be successful here when Cronin is gone. But the question is whether they will be better than he is. I want to win a title too, but I also don't want to miss the tournament for 5 or 10 years.

This is why you NEVER let go of a future HOF coach if you can help it. HOF coaches don't grow on trees.

On with Andy Katz/Seth Greenberg today. Starts around the 25 minute mark.

"We struggle to get games."
"I have a standing order with your network. We'll play home and home against the biggest name team you can get us."

http://m.espn.com/general/play?id=18553166

(01-24-2017 08:44 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 08:34 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  It ain't scheduling, i can tell you that much. In the 90s we were playing St. Louis, UAB, S. Miss, and zzzzzzzzz........

UC got bored with the post 2000 teams. They achieved on the level that Mick does. good to great regular season records. iffy offensive execution, exposed and flame out in the post season.

Drum up some excitement via a post season run, play some exciting games vs national teams. Flash some personality, you gotta sell the program, cuz it ain't gonna sell itself. we're no blue blood.


Stop whining, and just win, baby.



mc

In the 90's we had DICK VITALE doing MIDNIGHT MADNESS live on ESPN!!! Lol in great mid west. We played OTHER top 10 teams on NATIONAL free tv! In college the coaches are ALWAYS go be bigger draws for fans over the players. 99% of the top recruits go play for the COACH not the SCHOOL. if coach k went to coach at Miami(oh) next year they would out recruit duke.

HOLY SH$T ARE YOU KIDDING! DICK WAS HERE??? ON ESPN? NATIONAL? WHAT THE HE)L IS MICK DOING!?

(01-25-2017 07:20 PM)Fubar Wrote:  

(01-24-2017 08:44 AM)bulldog23 Wrote:  

(01-23-2017 08:34 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  It ain't scheduling, i can tell you that much. In the 90s we were playing St. Louis, UAB, S. Miss, and zzzzzzzzz........

UC got bored with the post 2000 teams. They achieved on the level that Mick does. good to great regular season records. iffy offensive execution, exposed and flame out in the post season.

Drum up some excitement via a post season run, play some exciting games vs national teams. Flash some personality, you gotta sell the program, cuz it ain't gonna sell itself. we're no blue blood.


Stop whining, and just win, baby.



mc

In the 90's we had DICK VITALE doing MIDNIGHT MADNESS live on ESPN!!! Lol in great mid west. We played OTHER top 10 teams on NATIONAL free tv! In college the coaches are ALWAYS go be bigger draws for fans over the players. 99% of the top recruits go play for the COACH not the SCHOOL. if coach k went to coach at Miami(oh) next year they would out recruit duke.

HOLY SH$T ARE YOU KIDDING! DICK WAS HERE??? ON ESPN? NATIONAL? WHAT THE HE)L IS MICK DOING!?

not sending out enough tweets