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2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
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EagleSam Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.
01-19-2017 09:42 AM
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EagleTough Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.
01-19-2017 11:28 AM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

3 of Toledo's verbals had EMU offers but all also had 7-23 offers, including
P5 offers. So the Rockets aren't really recruiting against EMU, but typically
the non-powerhouse P5 programs and AAC schools.
01-19-2017 11:32 AM
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emu79 Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

Well lets look at Murphy in basketball who had several winning seasons we're still dependent on transfers and JUCOs to build the program and struggle to recruit instate high school kids.
01-19-2017 12:15 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 12:15 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

Well lets look at Murphy in basketball who had several winning seasons we're still dependent on transfers and JUCOs to build the program and struggle to recruit instate high school kids.

I'll say that I think the 2016 FB team over-achieved based on my read of the talent level.

As far as MBB, I think we all seem to think the teams have probably under-achieved based on our read of the talent level.

For MBB 2016/17 could be different. Talent level seems to equate with something like 11 - 7 (low end), 12 - 6 or 13 -5 (high end).

Do not sleep on the talent sitting out for next year's MBB team. We have some players who can really play sitting out. This program is building a strong foundation.

FB recruiting has to get a lot better. I agree with the ideas that our recruiting basically sets a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins. We simply do not have the talent to compete on even grounds with WMU or TOL.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2017 12:33 PM by emu steve.)
01-19-2017 12:30 PM
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TheWoodenNickle Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 12:30 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 12:15 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

Well lets look at Murphy in basketball who had several winning seasons we're still dependent on transfers and JUCOs to build the program and struggle to recruit instate high school kids.

I'll say that I think the 2016 FB team over-achieved based on my read of the talent level.

As far as MBB, I think we all seem to think the teams have probably under-achieved based on our read of the talent level.

For MBB 2016/17 could be different. Talent level seems to equate with something like 11 - 7 (low end), 12 - 6 or 13 -5 (high end).

Do not sleep on the talent sitting out for next year's MBB team. We have some players who can really play sitting out. This program is building a strong foundation.

FB recruiting has to get a lot better. I agree with the ideas that our recruiting basically sets a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins. We simply do not have the talent to compete on even grounds with WMU or TOL.
I don't think that fb underachieved. They simply had talented and experienced players at the key positions - QB, OL, and DL.
01-19-2017 01:33 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 12:30 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 12:15 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

Well lets look at Murphy in basketball who had several winning seasons we're still dependent on transfers and JUCOs to build the program and struggle to recruit instate high school kids.

I'll say that I think the 2016 FB team over-achieved based on my read of the talent level.

As far as MBB, I think we all seem to think the teams have probably under-achieved based on our read of the talent level.

For MBB 2016/17 could be different. Talent level seems to equate with something like 11 - 7 (low end), 12 - 6 or 13 -5 (high end).

Do not sleep on the talent sitting out for next year's MBB team. We have some players who can really play sitting out. This program is building a strong foundation.

FB recruiting has to get a lot better. I agree with the ideas that our recruiting basically sets a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins. We simply do not have the talent to compete on even grounds with WMU or TOL.
I don't think that fb underachieved. They simply had talented and experienced players at the key positions - QB, OL, and DL.

'Nickle, did you make a typo? Did you mean to say that "I don't think that fb OVERachieved."

I posted that I thought it OVERachieved.
01-19-2017 01:46 PM
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TheWoodenNickle Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 01:46 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 01:33 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 12:30 PM)emu steve Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 12:15 PM)emu79 Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

Well lets look at Murphy in basketball who had several winning seasons we're still dependent on transfers and JUCOs to build the program and struggle to recruit instate high school kids.

I'll say that I think the 2016 FB team over-achieved based on my read of the talent level.

As far as MBB, I think we all seem to think the teams have probably under-achieved based on our read of the talent level.

For MBB 2016/17 could be different. Talent level seems to equate with something like 11 - 7 (low end), 12 - 6 or 13 -5 (high end).

Do not sleep on the talent sitting out for next year's MBB team. We have some players who can really play sitting out. This program is building a strong foundation.

FB recruiting has to get a lot better. I agree with the ideas that our recruiting basically sets a ceiling of 7 or 8 wins. We simply do not have the talent to compete on even grounds with WMU or TOL.
I don't think that fb underachieved. They simply had talented and experienced players at the key positions - QB, OL, and DL.

'Nickle, did you make a typo? Did you mean to say that "I don't think that fb OVERachieved."

I posted that I thought it OVERachieved.
Yes.
01-19-2017 03:11 PM
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EagleSam Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

That's your opinion. Many here have been around this program a lot longer than you have and can tell you it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound. If you expect us to start recruiting like Fleck after one good season (preceded by YEARS of ineptitude), you're going to be disappointed.
01-19-2017 03:13 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Just my guess:

It will take TWO CONSECUTIVE winning seasons*, with bowl bids, to establish this program in the minds of potential recruits.

Recruits don't have 10, 15, or 20 year memories (since most of them are 17 years old). To them, the last couple years are all they might notice.

The same can be said for Western MI. They need to win big again in 2017 to demonstrate that 13 wins wasn't a one time event and that they are capable of winning 8 or 9 games most years...

* We're half way there... :)
01-19-2017 03:40 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 03:13 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

That's your opinion. Many here have been around this program a lot longer than you have and can tell you it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound. If you expect us to start recruiting like Fleck after one good season (preceded by YEARS of ineptitude), you're going to be disappointed.
Agree with Sammy boy
01-19-2017 04:08 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Let me suggest that the effects of the 2016 season will be felt with recruiting now for the 2018 recruiting class.

One needs to remember that by say Thanksgiving week when we got our 7th win, most recruits are already committed. Our success was too late to help gain much traction with 2017 recruits.

It will be much easier to sell the 2018 class than the 2017 recruiting class.
01-19-2017 04:12 PM
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TheWoodenNickle Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 06:22 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I think we lost Jamar Hall. His Twitter now shows him a Mercer commit:

https://twitter.com/jamar_hall

Wow, if so, this reminds me of the kid from suburban D.C. (Md.) that a friend from work son knows who committed to EMU last year and then flipped to Rhode Island (FCS). Rhode Island had a losing record. EMU went to the Bahamas Bowl... oh, my...

Flipping from FBS to FCS. Why?
How committed was this kid in the first place? I mean, he called it University of Eastern Michigan in his commitment tweet. Probably just wanted the attention that goes with committing to an FBS School. Then the reality of moving away from home kicks in...
01-19-2017 04:21 PM
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EagleTough Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 03:13 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 11:28 AM)EagleTough Wrote:  
(01-19-2017 09:42 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  Culture changes don't happen over night. Nor the course of a season, unless you go from 1-11 to 11-1 and a championship. 7-5 and low-end bowl game is a dream come true for us as fans, but it doesn't do a whole lot to convince top notch recruits to come here. It's still probably pretty easy for WMU, Toledo, and even CMU to recruit against us, and that won't change until we've strung together a few winning seasons. Crawl before you walk, especially locally.

Luckily, we have plenty of talent coming back next season, and that'll provide another chance to improve how EMU is viewed as a program.

I'm sorry Sam, but I think the theory that it takes time for a 'culture change', or more winning seasons, etc.etc., to improve recruiting..........is complete nonsense.

All it takes is coaches who are good recruiters, who prioritize recruiting as very important, with a coherent strategy.

Bottom line, no matter the excuses, we simply don't have that from the top on down.

It is what it is, and highly likely it won't change. Again, 6-8 wins and bowl games for the next 3 years and I'll be happy.

From what they've shown so far, the only way we will really compete for even a MAC West title is to go even more heavy into Juco recruiting.

Just my 2 cents.

That's your opinion. Many here have been around this program a lot longer than you have and can tell you it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound. If you expect us to start recruiting like Fleck after one good season (preceded by YEARS of ineptitude), you're going to be disappointed.

Sure it is, and my opinion is just as valid as yours, regardless of how long anybody has been around. What does that have to do with anything? After 3 years we have a pretty good idea about Creighton/EMU recruiting. The numbers don't lie, as they say. I have a pretty good idea about the talent on this team, and recruiting generally. Go back and look at my 'prediction' for this season, and I said we'd beat CMU at home the last game to get our 6th win and become bowl eligible. I was 1 off, when most long-timers figured we'd win 3-4 games tops.

And actually it is pretty simple......

you either have the personality/salesmanship to be a good recruiter or you don't;
you either have a staff that's focused and makes recruiting a priority or you don't;
you either have a well defined recruiting strategy and someone leading that effort, or you don't.

I absolutely don't expect us to start recruiting like Fleck, because he destroyed all of his MAC peers for 4 straight years. He also recruited great from the moment he stepped on campus, as well as after going 1-11 his first year. No excuses about building multiple winning seasons, etc. WMU had been a very average MAC team at best, for a very long time.

I actually haven't said I expect anything out of these guys, because I am resigned to the fact that we have 9th place recruiters with 9th place results.

Doesn't mean they're bad guys, or bad coaches, I actually like the staff. It just means that I believe we are close to our ceiling based on the talent we have, which is obviously a reflection of our recruiting results.

Doesn't mean I'm going to complain and criticize if we're a 6-7 win bowl team for the next 3 years. Hell, most would have thought those results impossible based on the long history of EMU football. This season was awesome for all involved.

I'm simply saying that it's highly unlikely we ever challenge for a championship, unless the staff/effort/strategy on the recruiting trail, is elevated from 9th or 10th to at least 3rd-5th.

A lot of people outside this board, would demand as much. I'd be curious if this whole recruiting thing is ever a discussion between Creighton and Lyke? If I had to guess, I doubt it.

We're on the same page Sam, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Excited to see how Feb. 4th shakes out!
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2017 05:36 PM by EagleTough.)
01-19-2017 05:35 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Good points. Signing day is 13 days away, Feb. 1.

One of the reasons I used to be somewhat lame in following recruiting until December is that it was 'nothing to write home about' and need to close fast to be respectable.
01-19-2017 05:40 PM
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FrankAnderson Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Agree that the list of commits now isn't exactly overwhelming. I'm hoping a late push for JUCO recruits will come through and fill holes. Remember we did sign some of the impactful JUCO WRs after NSD. Not guaranteeing that it'll happen again, but it's possible.

But of course, like the rest of you, I wish we were winning more battles for these kids coming out of high school. Hopefully another winning season and bowl game in 2017 actually will make a difference.
01-19-2017 05:44 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
Long shot recruiting target, Coby Bryant, signs with Cincy.

Once Cincy offered it was... (over).
01-19-2017 05:55 PM
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EAGLE KING Online
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2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
I agree with Steve that it is going to take multiple and consecutive seasons of bowling for us to have a chance to get into the top 3 of MAC recruiting.

I think where CC excels is with finding those 2 star or unranked players and pulling the absolute best out of them, where they are playing at 3/4 star level.

As we have talked about many times on this board rankings are just numbers and mean nothing until you step on the field and prove them accurate or inaccurate.


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01-19-2017 07:13 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-19-2017 07:13 PM)EAGLE KING Wrote:  I agree with Steve that it is going to take multiple and consecutive seasons of bowling for us to have a chance to get into the top 3 of MAC recruiting.

I think where CC excels is with finding those 2 star or unranked players and pulling the absolute best out of them, where they are playing at 3/4 star level.

As we have talked about many times on this board rankings are just numbers and mean nothing until you step on the field and prove them accurate or inaccurate.


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I think in the MAC a few schools do very well recruiting, e.g., WMU, TOL, etc. and the rest are all 'mid-pack'. This, I would suggest is why the MAC seems on the field to be TOL, and now WMU, and 'everyone else' because that is the way the recruiting has been. NIU always seems to do better on the field than in recruiting.

But if one looks at say Akron, Buffalo, EMU, Kent, Miami, etc. no one is surprised. Not great recruiting and not great on the field... There will be an occasional unheralded star, Mack from UB comes to mind, but not great talent top to bottom.
01-20-2017 01:28 AM
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emu79 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: 2017 Football Recruiting (Thread II)
(01-18-2017 01:31 PM)emu79 Wrote:  We offered Dodge CIty defensive end Devon Anderson has scout profile.

http://www.scout.com/player/210689-devon...2016&s=343

Visiting this week I believe he would have been a teammate of Dawson and Granger
01-20-2017 09:16 AM
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