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(01-15-2017 06:25 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  There are things he could do in short spurts that could help us. If he can shoot as well as he did in JUCO, you could have him trail and hit the occasional top of the key 3. Against the 1-3-1 that has been destroying us, he could pop out to the corner and be impossible to defend from three. You just have to be willing to adjust to the players you have in order to get something out of them. JJ WILL NOT ADJUST for anything or anyone. We run plays for one player over and over and over and over and when that doesn't work we do it some more.

Also, I would be shocked if we ever get another decent JUCO of fifth year after what JJ has done to Haynes, Kah, and Pinkney. These guys have limited time left in their career and JJ recruits them just to rot on the bench. IMO, you should not recruit JUCOs or fifth years unless they can contribute immediately, otherwise you are wasting a scholarship and frankly screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere.

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I feel you on the adjusting of offensive and defensive schemes, but I can't agree with your claim that JJ is "screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere." This is how the recruiting game has been and will continue to be. Schools give offers out to kids who (hopefully...you would think) can help the program, and then the kid ultimately gets to have the final decision on where he wants to go. This isn't a JUCO/5th year thing, it's all recruits. This is no different to that of the relationship between BJ Stith and UVA (and a lot of mid-upper recruits going to stacked P5 schools). Do we say that BJ got screwed by UVA because there was no chance that he was going to play at all? No. The only reason it's a little more glaring is that JUCOs don't have as much eligibility left.

The big concern I see is how were these recruits vetted out to determine that they could help this team move forward? Because right now, all 3 of the kids in question will not help ODU on the court this year (maybe ever).

(01-15-2017 06:32 PM)757ODU Wrote:  Also, while I agree with a lot of you about Kah not being ready to contribute, I completely disagree with your logic. A poster made a point about Kah being out of position on defense. Well, he made plays, and there's something to be said about a player that can make a play outside of his marching orders. To argue your point, Vassor was in terrible position defensively on every screen.

To further defend Kah, BJ looked awful for the first ten games or so. He was clueless. He got an opportunity to play, and has found his role, and is a significantly better player now. Kah could use the same opportunity to get accustomed to playing at this level.

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(01-15-2017 06:37 PM)Nukesquad Wrote:  The big concern I see is how were these recruits vetted out to determine that they could help this team move forward? Because right now, all 3 of the kids in question will not help ODU on the court this year (maybe ever).

That's a valid question.



Posted from mobile device. Hopefully it's coherent.

(01-15-2017 06:37 PM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 06:25 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  There are things he could do in short spurts that could help us. If he can shoot as well as he did in JUCO, you could have him trail and hit the occasional top of the key 3. Against the 1-3-1 that has been destroying us, he could pop out to the corner and be impossible to defend from three. You just have to be willing to adjust to the players you have in order to get something out of them. JJ WILL NOT ADJUST for anything or anyone. We run plays for one player over and over and over and over and when that doesn't work we do it some more.

Also, I would be shocked if we ever get another decent JUCO of fifth year after what JJ has done to Haynes, Kah, and Pinkney. These guys have limited time left in their career and JJ recruits them just to rot on the bench. IMO, you should not recruit JUCOs or fifth years unless they can contribute immediately, otherwise you are wasting a scholarship and frankly screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere.

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I feel you on the adjusting of offensive and defensive schemes, but I can't agree with your claim that JJ is "screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere." This is how the recruiting game has been and will continue to be. Schools give offers out to kids who (hopefully...you would think) can help the program, and then the kid ultimately gets to have the final decision on where he wants to go. This isn't a JUCO/5th year thing, it's all recruits. This is no different to that of the relationship between BJ Stith and UVA (and a lot of mid-upper recruits going to stacked P5 schools). Do we say that BJ got screwed by UVA because there was no chance that he was going to play at all? No. The only reason it's a little more glaring is that JUCOs don't have as much eligibility left.

The big concern I see is how were these recruits vetted out to determine that they could help this team move forward? Because right now, all 3 of the kids in question will not help ODU on the court this year (maybe ever).

I disagree about it applying to all players. If you come in as a freshman and it doesn't work out, you have a chance to transfers. The JUCOs and 5th years don't have that opportunity. They have also played enough at a higher level that you should be able to tell if they are good enough to contribute. You can't tell me JJ thought Pinkney would get significant minutes only to find out that he is the last guy on the bench once he got to campus. If that is the case, he is doing an awful job evaluating talent. I can give him a pass on Haynes, because he looks like he could contribute, but is kind of stuck in a log jam, but Kah and Pinkney are down there with the walk ons, hell they are behind walk ons. How do you not know that that is where they will end up before you sign them?

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(01-15-2017 06:44 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 06:37 PM)Nukesquad Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 06:25 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  There are things he could do in short spurts that could help us. If he can shoot as well as he did in JUCO, you could have him trail and hit the occasional top of the key 3. Against the 1-3-1 that has been destroying us, he could pop out to the corner and be impossible to defend from three. You just have to be willing to adjust to the players you have in order to get something out of them. JJ WILL NOT ADJUST for anything or anyone. We run plays for one player over and over and over and over and when that doesn't work we do it some more.

Also, I would be shocked if we ever get another decent JUCO of fifth year after what JJ has done to Haynes, Kah, and Pinkney. These guys have limited time left in their career and JJ recruits them just to rot on the bench. IMO, you should not recruit JUCOs or fifth years unless they can contribute immediately, otherwise you are wasting a scholarship and frankly screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I feel you on the adjusting of offensive and defensive schemes, but I can't agree with your claim that JJ is "screwing a kid out of getting to play somewhere." This is how the recruiting game has been and will continue to be. Schools give offers out to kids who (hopefully...you would think) can help the program, and then the kid ultimately gets to have the final decision on where he wants to go. This isn't a JUCO/5th year thing, it's all recruits. This is no different to that of the relationship between BJ Stith and UVA (and a lot of mid-upper recruits going to stacked P5 schools). Do we say that BJ got screwed by UVA because there was no chance that he was going to play at all? No. The only reason it's a little more glaring is that JUCOs don't have as much eligibility left.

The big concern I see is how were these recruits vetted out to determine that they could help this team move forward? Because right now, all 3 of the kids in question will not help ODU on the court this year (maybe ever).

I disagree about it applying to all players. If you come in as a freshman and it doesn't work out, you have a chance to transfers. The JUCOs and 5th years don't have that opportunity. They have also played enough at a higher level that you should be able to tell if they are good enough to contribute. You can't tell me JJ thought Pinkney would get significant minutes only to find out that he is the last guy on the bench once he got to campus. If that is the case, he is doing an awful job evaluating talent. I can give him a pass on Haynes, because he looks like he could contribute, but is kind of stuck in a log jam, but Kah and Pinkney are down there with the walk ons, hell they are behind walk ons. How do you not know that that is where they will end up before you sign them?

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I will say this about this subject....Jeff Jones had better bring in a 4 or a big man who is ready to contribute next season. If he does not do this, we will see more of last night. The hot seat starts for me if he fails to bring in a big man who can play right away.

Think about how far we have fallen and how far the big men we have are from the mid to late 2000's.

Hassell - all CAA double double monster that ate up opposing teams on offense and defense.

Lee - a 6"10 point forward who could be used to break the press, attack on offense or even shoot 3's/stretch a defense. Another all CAA player who could finish with either hand.

Keyon carter - a solid role player who could stretch a D and knock down 3's. A great compliment player when you have guys who can dominate inside.

Valdas vasylius - all caa 1st teamer who was ALWAYS the toughest guy on the court. Heart, hustle and grit. Could also stretch and D and make 3's and rebound like a madman.

Dahi - solid defender, solid 3 point shooter, athletic big who could play inside out and really cause matchup problems. Capable of going off on any given night.

Alex loughton - my favorite monarch since Petey sessoms/Odell hodge. Could knock down 3's, attack the defense from the 3 point line or post up on either block. Amazing mid range game and good FT shooter. Caa player of the year.

This list doesn't even include Richard Ross or Chris cooper who are probably right around as valuable as brandan stith.

Kah is supposedly the only big on the team who can shoot 3's but he doesn't even look like a d-1 player.

It is stunning how bad our big men are compared to the guys we had under Blaine.

We are NOT a talented basketball team and that's on Jeff jones, who is absolutely a watered down Blaine taylor at this point.

(01-15-2017 06:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Think about how far we have fallen and how far the big men we have are from the mid to late 2000's.

Hassell - all CAA double double monster that ate up opposing teams on offense and defense.

Lee - a 6"10 point forward who could be used to break the press, attack on offense or even shoot 3's/stretch a defense. Another all CAA player who could finish with either hand.

Keyon carter - a solid role player who could stretch a D and knock down 3's. A great compliment player when you have guys who can dominate inside.

Valdas vasylius - all caa 1st teamer who was ALWAYS the toughest guy on the court. Heart, hustle and grit. Could also stretch and D and make 3's and rebound like a madman.

Dahi - solid defender, solid 3 point shooter, athletic big who could play inside out and really cause matchup problems. Capable of going off on any given night.

Alex loughton - my favorite monarch since Petey sessoms/Odell hodge. Could knock down 3's, attack the defense from the 3 point line or post up on either block. Amazing mid range game and good FT shooter. Caa player of the year.

This list doesn't even include Richard Ross or Chris cooper who are probably right around as valuable as brandan stith.

Kah is supposedly the only big on the team who can shoot 3's but he doesn't even look like a d-1 player.

It is stunning how bad our big men are compared to the guys we had under Blaine.

We are NOT a talented basketball team and that's on Jeff jones, who is absolutely a watered down Blaine taylor at this point.

I would argue that Cooper was quite a bit better than Stith, and I think Ross was too, but would expect to get a lot of argument on that one.

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(01-15-2017 06:53 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 06:49 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Think about how far we have fallen and how far the big men we have are from the mid to late 2000's.

Hassell - all CAA double double monster that ate up opposing teams on offense and defense.

Lee - a 6"10 point forward who could be used to break the press, attack on offense or even shoot 3's/stretch a defense. Another all CAA player who could finish with either hand.

Keyon carter - a solid role player who could stretch a D and knock down 3's. A great compliment player when you have guys who can dominate inside.

Valdas vasylius - all caa 1st teamer who was ALWAYS the toughest guy on the court. Heart, hustle and grit. Could also stretch and D and make 3's and rebound like a madman.

Dahi - solid defender, solid 3 point shooter, athletic big who could play inside out and really cause matchup problems. Capable of going off on any given night.

Alex loughton - my favorite monarch since Petey sessoms/Odell hodge. Could knock down 3's, attack the defense from the 3 point line or post up on either block. Amazing mid range game and good FT shooter. Caa player of the year.

This list doesn't even include Richard Ross or Chris cooper who are probably right around as valuable as brandan stith.

Kah is supposedly the only big on the team who can shoot 3's but he doesn't even look like a d-1 player.

It is stunning how bad our big men are compared to the guys we had under Blaine.

We are NOT a talented basketball team and that's on Jeff jones, who is absolutely a watered down Blaine taylor at this point.

I would argue that Cooper was quite a bit better than Stith, and I think Ross was too, but would expect to get a lot of argument on that one.

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Ross was limited offensively but a much better rebounder and defender than stith. Stith is a good defender as well and has a better offensive game. You could make a case for either. Cooper was a better defender, better rebounder and probably an offensive equal.

Porter, Denzel taylor, vassor and kah would never have seen the court from 2004-2012. This is not debatable.

This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

Unless we don't sign a big man.

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

(01-15-2017 08:46 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

I would certainly like one, I'm sure that is the focus unless Kah figures something out in the summer and can be the backup big.
Unless we don't sign a big man.

(01-15-2017 08:48 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

NCAA tourney is what we all want, but thats the not the difference between good and not good. We were good 2 years ago and the committee screwed us.

Hypothetically; losses @ Marshall, LT, @Rice, @MTSU, @UAB, and one more isn't really terrible, imo. (could be 13-4 or 14-3) @Marshall and LT (among others, maybe) are without Stith, our best big man.

Well at least I want this team to be good enough to be screwed over by the selection committee.

(01-15-2017 09:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:48 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

NCAA tourney is what we all want, but thats the not the difference between good and not good. We were good 2 years ago and the committee screwed us.

Hypothetically; losses @ Marshall, LT, @Rice, @MTSU, @UAB, and one more isn't really terrible, imo. (could be 13-4 or 14-3) @Marshall and LT (among others, maybe) are without Stith, our best big man.

THAT should be what is printed on the jerseys.....

Odu basketball.......isn't terrible.

Well, the defense isn't. Our offense is abysmal.

(01-15-2017 09:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:48 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

NCAA tourney is what we all want, but thats the not the difference between good and not good. We were good 2 years ago and the committee screwed us.

Hypothetically; losses @ Marshall, LT, @Rice, @MTSU, @UAB, and one more isn't really terrible, imo. (could be 13-4 or 14-3) @Marshall and LT (among others, maybe) are without Stith, our best big man.

It is if you want attention... and money.

(01-17-2017 12:19 PM)MonarchCAM Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:48 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

NCAA tourney is what we all want, but thats the not the difference between good and not good. We were good 2 years ago and the committee screwed us.

Hypothetically; losses @ Marshall, LT, @Rice, @MTSU, @UAB, and one more isn't really terrible, imo. (could be 13-4 or 14-3) @Marshall and LT (among others, maybe) are without Stith, our best big man.

It is if you want attention... and money.

Nearly 70 teams get into the NCAA tourney now. If you can't get in within 5 years at a school like odu with all of its resources, you do not deserve to keep your job. Period.

(01-18-2017 12:38 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(01-17-2017 12:19 PM)MonarchCAM Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 09:00 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:48 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(01-15-2017 08:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  This is actually Jones 3rd class playing now with his 4th class being the incoming. Baker was a previous recruit that we honored his scholarship.

Jones can coach, but I can see the argument for lack of recruiting (which hopefully turned around in the next class). We missed on Douglass, Kah, Pervier, and Carver (probably, but is a freshman). The Pinckney signing was a necessity after Evans backed out as we only had true freshman walk ons....luckily Fields has shown he can play 5-10 mins per game.

This team isn't nearly as bad as some of the complainers claim though. Should finish around 12-6 like we did last year. But, if our incoming players are anywhere near their prospect rankings, we are going to have a really good team the next 2 years.

12-6 in this conference is bad.

In any case, the benchmark has to be an NCAA bid. Nothing else will do.

NCAA tourney is what we all want, but thats the not the difference between good and not good. We were good 2 years ago and the committee screwed us.

Hypothetically; losses @ Marshall, LT, @Rice, @MTSU, @UAB, and one more isn't really terrible, imo. (could be 13-4 or 14-3) @Marshall and LT (among others, maybe) are without Stith, our best big man.

It is if you want attention... and money.

Nearly 70 teams get into the NCAA tourney now. If you can't get in within 5 years at a school like odu with all of its resources, you do not deserve to keep your job. Period.

Yeah, 68 teams get in but you need to provide context there too. 32 of those teams are autobids from winning the conference (so we only have access to one of those), with 36 at-large bids. But I agree - we need to always at least be in the conversation of one of the at-large bids if we can't win the conference.