(01-13-2017 08:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 07:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  per Commish Jeff Hurd.

Was introduced to Cal Baptist last summer and been back and forth since then.

CSU-B helped play a role with Cal Baptist decision.

Commissioners always fib.

Cal Baptist went to DII years ago because they knew the WAC would have openings.

It is building a new arena because they were sure of DI then. It wasn't built for DII.

The WAC and Big Sky have plans to swap schools and that HS been evident ever since the WAC took on many Great West schools.

Whatever.

(01-13-2017 08:05 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 08:02 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 07:54 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  per Commish Jeff Hurd.

Was introduced to Cal Baptist last summer and been back and forth since then.

CSU-B helped play a role with Cal Baptist decision.

Commissioners always fib.

Cal Baptist went to DII years ago because they knew the WAC would have openings.

It is building a new arena because they were sure of DI then. It wasn't built for DII.

The WAC and Big Sky have plans to swap schools and that HS been evident ever since the WAC took on many Great West schools.

Whatever.

Must be a absolutely horrid chess player. Can't think beyond one move ahead.

The WAC, Big Sky, and Southland should have divvied up the 25 FCS schools between them and not bothered with the Great West:

WAC - Northern Arizona, Abilene Christian, Southern Utah, Weber State, Stephen F. Austin, Northern Colorado, Lamar, Cal Poly (football only), New Mexico State (non-FCS)
Southland - Sam Houston State, Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word, Central Arkansas, Northwestern State, McNeese State, Nicholls State, Southeastern Louisiana, New Orleans (non-FCS), Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (non-FCS)
Big Sky - North Dakota, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Idaho State, Eastern Washington, Portland State, Sacramento State, UC Davis (football only)

No Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, Chicago State, UTRGV (nee UTPA), UMKC, or Bakersfield.

If they are planning of switching schools? They could have grab Humboldt State instead. Dixie State, Colorado Mesa, West Texas A&M, Western Oregon, Central Washington and some others could be helpful to make sure that both conferences have enough football teams. WAC have no imagination if it comes to football.

(01-13-2017 08:46 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The WAC, Big Sky, and Southland should have divvied up the 25 FCS schools between them and not bothered with the Great West:

WAC - Northern Arizona, Abilene Christian, Southern Utah, Weber State, Stephen F. Austin, Northern Colorado, Lamar, Cal Poly (football only), New Mexico State (non-FCS)
Southland - Sam Houston State, Houston Baptist, Incarnate Word, Central Arkansas, Northwestern State, McNeese State, Nicholls State, Southeastern Louisiana, New Orleans (non-FCS), Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (non-FCS)
Big Sky - North Dakota, Montana, Montana State, Idaho, Idaho State, Eastern Washington, Portland State, Sacramento State, UC Davis (football only)

No Utah Valley, Grand Canyon, Chicago State, UTRGV (nee UTPA), UMKC, or Bakersfield.

UTRGV wants FBS if they add football.

You could grab more D2 schools to slot them in like West Texas A&M to the WAC.
Azusa Pacific and Humboldt State could slide in somewhere.
Arkansas Tech and Central Oklahoma could slide into Southland.
Dixie State and Colorado Mesa could slip somewhere.
Western Oregon, Simon Fraser and Central Washington could slide into the Big Sky. North Dakota could move to Slummit.
Colorado State-Pueblo could go somewhere. Pueblo and Colorado Springs share the same tv market.
What about Midwestern State, Tarleton State, Angelo State, Texas A&M-Kingsville/Commerce and Delta State could slip in somewhere.

Many of these schools are eyeing for D1 as well. They are blocked right now, and WAC is doing that by adding California Baptist.

Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

The WAC can offer FBS. The Big Sky cant.

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

Perhaps because the WAC is #20 our of 32 conferences and the Big Sky is 29?

(01-14-2017 12:56 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

Perhaps because the WAC is #20 our of 32 conferences and the Big Sky is 29?

There are some absolutely horrid bball schools in the Sky. ISU. SUU. SAC St and often PSU are bottom feeders for all DI. Doesn't help Weber St and Montana and others who want to attract better talent. Sac St and Port St still play out of Jr High gyms.

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

And why would any WAC schools go to the Big Sky? The WAC is setting up a conference for large metro areas that makes for easier travel.

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

With CBU, the WAC can survive without NMSU or Chicago St at the minimum. So yes, it will be there by 2023. CBU just gave the WAC more possible recruiting help with an LA area school. That can benefit even the likes of UMKC.

(01-14-2017 09:38 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

With CBU, the WAC can survive without NMSU or Chicago St at the minimum. So yes, it will be there by 2023. CBU just gave the WAC more possible recruiting help with an LA area school. That can benefit even the likes of UMKC.

If UC-Davis is not a Bay Area school, Cal Baptist is not an LA area school :)

(01-14-2017 09:13 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

And why would any WAC schools go to the Big Sky? The WAC is setting up a conference for large metro areas that makes for easier travel.

The WAC is still 'the land of the misfit toys' conference. There's little cohesion and even a less of a desire for them to hang around. Basically they're the place teams land when no one wants them.

Lets recap

First we have the teams that aren't viable at the D3 level, much less at D1

1) Chicago State - is in serious trouble. The school appears to not be viable as an educational institution. Their continued presence in D1 is seriously in question.

Next up, geographical outliers, that are only in the WAC because no other conference will take them

2) UMKC - Is stuck with huge travel costs, in a low end conference, with no rivals, and no nearby teams. If the Summit, MVC, or even Southland wanted them...they'd go.
3) NMSU - Is actively looking for the exits. They have a good program in Oly sports and they are a flagship style school. They aren't long for the conference.
4) UTRGV - No rivals and huge costs. If offered a ticket out, they'd take it. The only issue is that due to their history and their geographical position....no one is calling.
5) Seattle - A small private school with 4k undergrads with no one near them. They'd leave, immediately, if any other conference called. No one has, so they're stuck until that happens.

Next up, a "school" that appears to be radioactive to other conferences for a variety of reasons.

6) Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated. For profit school with a very bad history on discrimination. They want to leave, and their basketball product isn't terrible, but their for profit designation is a non-starter for other conferences.

Next up, a school that could fit in another conference, and they would go immediately, but is probably being blocked by nearby schools

7) Utah Valley - Huge enrollment. But its in the shadow of BYU. And the place they'd really like to play already has 2 Utah members. So they''re probably stuck too. The BYU issue might be the sticking point IMHO. Over 90% of Orem churchgoing persons are members of the LDS Church and BYU is 4 miles away from campus.

And finally, we have the California Schools.

8) Cal State - Bakersfield - Would jump to the Big West or WCC if ever given the opportunity
9) Cal Baptist - A private, discriminatory moveup.

In short, every team in this conference, save Cal Baptist, is either looking for the exits, or is looking to simply keep the doors open.

---

Cal Baptist's admission gives the league some more leeway. But not as much as one might think. At least NMSU and Chicago State will not be in this league in 3 years. Bank on it. This conference remains extremely unstable.

  ImageUploadedByCSNbbs1484419640.419689.jpg (Size: 46.42 KB / Downloads: 24)

(01-14-2017 12:51 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 09:13 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

And why would any WAC schools go to the Big Sky? The WAC is setting up a conference for large metro areas that makes for easier travel.

The WAC is still 'the land of the misfit toys' conference. There's little cohesion and even a less of a desire for them to hang around. Basically they're the place teams land when no one wants them.

Lets recap

First we have the teams that aren't viable at the D3 level, much less at D1

1) Chicago State - is in serious trouble. The school appears to not be viable as an educational institution. Their continued presence in D1 is seriously in question.

Next up, geographical outliers, that are only in the WAC because no other conference will take them

2) UMKC - Is stuck with huge travel costs, in a low end conference, with no rivals, and no nearby teams. If the Summit, MVC, or even Southland wanted them...they'd go.
3) NMSU - Is actively looking for the exits. They have a good program in Oly sports and they are a flagship style school. They aren't long for the conference.
4) UTRGV - No rivals and huge costs. If offered a ticket out, they'd take it. The only issue is that due to their history and their geographical position....no one is calling.
5) Seattle - A small private school with 4k undergrads with no one near them. They'd leave, immediately, if any other conference called. No one has, so they're stuck until that happens.

Next up, a "school" that appears to be radioactive to other conferences for a variety of reasons.

6) Grand Canyon Education, Incorporated. For profit school with a very bad history on discrimination. They want to leave, and their basketball product isn't terrible, but their for profit designation is a non-starter for other conferences.

Next up, a school that could fit in another conference, and they would go immediately, but is probably being blocked by nearby schools

7) Utah Valley - Huge enrollment. But its in the shadow of BYU. And the place they'd really like to play already has 2 Utah members. So they''re probably stuck too. The BYU issue might be the sticking point IMHO. Over 90% of Orem churchgoing persons are members of the LDS Church and BYU is 4 miles away from campus.

And finally, we have the California Schools.

8) Cal State - Bakersfield - Would jump to the Big West or WCC if ever given the opportunity
9) Cal Baptist - A private, discriminatory moveup.

In short, every team in this conference, save Cal Baptist, is either looking for the exits, or is looking to simply keep the doors open.

---

Cal Baptist's admission gives the league some more leeway. But not as much as one might think. At least NMSU and Chicago State will not be in this league in 3 years. Bank on it. This conference remains extremely unstable.

I agree.
1. New Mexico St is a solid school. They would seem to be able to get an oly only invite to the Big West, MV or SB (all former conferences for them) their gone soon I think.
2. Chicago St--I don't know how they have survived this long. I predict they'll be gone by next year.
That leaves 7 schools. One of those schools is a for profit Devry type (GCU) I still the WAC is toast.
Cheers!

I don't know about all this. It sounds like the primary knock on the WAC is that its members are all looking to upgrade. The same situation exists in every other NCAA conference, save 6.

It's true that Denver left the WAC for the Summit. But UMKC went the opposite direction shortly after, leaving the Summit weaker & fortifying the WAC. And some of the blame for Denver's departure goes to Chicago State. CSU is essentially being replaced with a much more stable Cal Baptist. Meanwhile, Oral Roberts returned to the Summit. From the perspective of UMKC/Denver, I'm guessing Oral Roberts isn't an upgrade over CBU.

(01-14-2017 03:31 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  I don't know about all this. It sounds like the primary knock on the WAC is that its members are all looking to upgrade. The same situation exists in every other NCAA conference, save 6.

It's true that Denver left the WAC for the Summit. But UMKC went the opposite direction shortly after, leaving the Summit weaker & fortifying the WAC. And some of the blame for Denver's departure goes to Chicago State. CSU is essentially being replaced with a much more stable Cal Baptist. Meanwhile, Oral Roberts returned to the Summit. From the perspective of UMKC/Denver, I'm guessing Oral Roberts isn't an upgrade over CBU.

There's between looking to upgrade and desperately clamoring for any liferaft. Which is where a couple of schools are. And someone will take NMSU.

I have no idea what drug UMKC's president was thinking when he left the Summit. I think they thought the Summit was the conference in danger and picked the wrong place to jump to.

Several people have mentioned GCU's for-profit status as an issuer for many schools, but I remembered Grand Canyon trying to become a non-profit university not that long ago. A quick google search says that plan would've cost them accreditation as a university. Does anyone know if there's any other plans to move toward non-profit status?

(01-14-2017 02:45 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:56 AM)NotANewbie Wrote:  

(01-14-2017 12:28 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 11:48 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Cal Baptist must be optimistic that the WAC will survive until 2023, when CBU becomes eligible. That's a big commitment for a league for a league who's futjre looks bleak. That is another reason I think something is up with a WAC / Big Sky realignment.

Why would anyone in the Big Sky go to the WAC?

Perhaps because the WAC is #20 our of 32 conferences and the Big Sky is 29?

There are some absolutely horrid bball schools in the Sky. ISU. SUU. SAC St and often PSU are bottom feeders for all DI. Doesn't help Weber St and Montana and others who want to attract better talent. Sac St and Port St still play out of Jr High gyms.

portland state is building a new 50 million dollar arena. stay caught up there nodak. ( it only seats 3,000 though)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk