(01-12-2017 06:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

Great.

And with this you would stop the R&D dead in it's tracks. Some of these drugs cost in the Billions, with a "B", to bring to market, and many of them result in 0/0 sales. OR, they "work" but for some other ailment so they go through all the hoops twice, three times, who knows how many times.

Many, many things millions of people take every day, world-wide would never have seen the light of day. In many cases the stuff is now given away to consumers for free. I'd have thought you would know that.

Good thing Martin Shkreli and Turing Pharma were able to recover their massive sunk costs then.

(01-12-2017 02:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  "I unequivocally support drug imports to lower cost but plan must include protections so foreign drugs meet safety standards." ~ Corey Booker, Twitter 1/12/17

Because Canada is the wild wild west of unrestrained narcotics and prescription medication amirite??

We're talking about ... JUST .... CANADA ..... here....

Come. The. ****. On.


Anytime I hear a Democrat hiding behind safety or children I hear the flip side of the same coin of a Republican hiding behind terrorism or The Bible.

(01-12-2017 06:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

Great.

And with this you would stop the R&D dead in it's tracks. Some of these drugs cost in the Billions, with a "B", to bring to market, and many of them result in 0/0 sales. OR, they "work" but for some other ailment so they go through all the hoops twice, three times, who knows how many times.

Many, many things millions of people take every day, world-wide would never have seen the light of day. In many cases the stuff is now given away to consumers for free. I'd have thought you would know that.

Currently the rest of world is free riding. And we're paying all of the profits too.

This is unsustainable.

They will pay more.

(01-12-2017 06:34 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:31 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

Great.

And with this you would stop the R&D dead in it's tracks. Some of these drugs cost in the Billions, with a "B", to bring to market, and many of them result in 0/0 sales. OR, they "work" but for some other ailment so they go through all the hoops twice, three times, who knows how many times.

Many, many things millions of people take every day, world-wide would never have seen the light of day. In many cases the stuff is now given away to consumers for free. I'd have thought you would know that.

Good thing Martin Shkreli and Turing Pharma were able to recover their massive sunk costs then.

Shkreli's going to the DJT inauguration. Cleared by the judge to party with Trump and his supporter

http://www.joemygod.com/2017/01/12/court...uguration/

GOP doesn't care about free market competition principles when it could actually be a major public health boon. They deserve every bad thing Trump is going to wreak on them.

(01-12-2017 12:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...0#position

You'll denote Cory Booker and several other top Democrats joined with the GOP establishment to kill off importing cheaper prescription medication.

The Liberty Caucus in the Senate all voted in favor (Lee, Paul).


The No votes is a who's who of RINOs (Graham, etc) and some major Democrats as well.

If you import cheaper drugs from other countries like China? We do not know what the effects will be. Remember about tainted dog and cat food/treats ship in from China? Many families lost their dogs and cats from major corporations ship jobs to China to made products to be sent back here. Even Central American countries got tainted toothpaste from China as well.

(01-12-2017 08:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  If you import cheaper drugs from other countries like China? We do not know what the effects will be. Remember about tainted dog and cat food/treats ship in from China? Many families lost their dogs and cats from major corporations ship jobs to China to made products to be sent back here. Even Central American countries got tainted toothpaste from China as well.

Say it with me now:

THIS AMENDMENT WOULD ONLY ALLOW IMPORTS FROM CANADA.

C - A - N - A - D - A

(01-12-2017 12:20 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...0#position
You'll denote Cory Booker and several other top Democrats joined with the GOP establishment to kill off importing cheaper prescription medication.
The Liberty Caucus in the Senate all voted in favor (Lee, Paul).
The No votes is a who's who of RINOs (Graham, etc) and some major Democrats as well.

Thanks for the link. Reading the bill, it makes me wonder how America is functional with the Congress that we have...

Have you gone full Bernie-Bro on us?

S.Amdt.178 to S.Con.Res.3 - 115th Congress (2017-2018) - Amendment Text | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

Quote: SA 117. Mr. SANDERS submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by
him to the concurrent resolution S. Con. Res. 3, setting forth the
congressional budget for the United States Government for fiscal year
2017 and setting forth the appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal
years 2018 through 2026; which was ordered to lie on the table; as
follows:

At the end of title III, add the following:

SEC. 3___. DEFICIT-NEUTRAL RESERVE FUND RELATING TO ENSURING
THAT HEALTH CARE IS A RIGHT FOR ALL AMERICANS.

The Chairman of the Committee on the Budget of the Senate
may revise the allocations of a committee or committees,
aggregates, and other appropriate levels in this resolution
for one or more bills, joint resolutions, amendments,
amendments between the Houses, motions, or conference reports
relating to ensuring that health care is a right of all
Americans, not a privilege dependent on where you live, what
job you have, or how much money you make, which shall include
a Medicare for All plan to cover everyone in the United
States by the amounts provided in such legislation for those
purposes, provided that such legislation would not increase
the deficit over either the period of the total of fiscal
years 2017 through 2021 or the period of the total of fiscal
years 2017 through 2026.


SA 134. Mr. SANDERS (for himself, Ms. Stabenow, and Mr. Franken)
submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the concurrent
resolution S. Con. Res. 3, setting forth the congressional budget for
the United States Government for fiscal year 2017 and setting forth the
appropriate budgetary levels for fiscal years 2018 through 2026; which
was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

At the end of title III, add the following:

SEC. 3___. DEFICIT-NEUTRAL RESERVE FUND RELATING TO LOWERING
PRESCRIPTION DRUG PRICES FOR AMERICANS BY
IMPORTING DRUGS FROM CANADA AND OTHER
COUNTRIES.

The Chairman of the Committee on the Budget of the Senate
may revise the allocations of a committee or committees,
aggregates, and other appropriate levels in this resolution
for one or more bills, joint resolutions, amendments,
amendments between the Houses, motions, or conference reports
relating to lowering prescription drug prices, including
through the importation of safe and affordable prescription
drugs by American pharmacists, wholesalers, and individuals
with a valid prescription from a provider licensed to
practice in the United States, by the amounts provided in
such legislation for those purposes, provided that such
legislation would not increase the deficit over either the
period of the total of fiscal years 2017 through 2021 or the
period of the total of fiscal years 2017 through 2026.

(01-12-2017 09:04 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Thanks for the link. Reading the bill, it makes me wonder how America is functional with the Congress that we have...

Have you gone full Bernie-Bro on us?

And behind the Bernie lofty rhetoric in there is one simple idea: if drugs are FDA approved and cheaper in Canada, we import them here. If I'm "Bernie bro" then apparently Mike Lee and Rand Paul are too.

The fundamental problem I have with both how much we pay for prescriptions and how other countries pay for it is, if the US is basically the only country that permits the market to have a voice in pharma pricing, what will happen when we institute price controls here? And, importing product from another country that does have price controls is essentially a backdoor to instituting price controls here, just at the whim of a foreign government.

(01-12-2017 09:07 PM)I45owl Wrote:  The fundamental problem I have with both how much we pay for prescriptions and how other countries pay for it is, if the US is basically the only country that permits the market to have a voice in pharma pricing, what will happen when we institute price controls here? And, importing product from another country that does have price controls is essentially a backdoor to instituting price controls here, just at the whim of a foreign government.

If the Canadian prices are subsidized let their government take that bath. But I think it is merely a case of the Canadian Rx regulatory burden is far less than the American Rx regulatory burden. So what we're really talking about here is a loophole around regulatory bloat and waste.

(01-12-2017 09:09 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 09:07 PM)I45owl Wrote:  The fundamental problem I have with both how much we pay for prescriptions and how other countries pay for it is, if the US is basically the only country that permits the market to have a voice in pharma pricing, what will happen when we institute price controls here? And, importing product from another country that does have price controls is essentially a backdoor to instituting price controls here, just at the whim of a foreign government.

If the Canadian prices are subsidized let their government take that bath. But I think it is merely a case of the Canadian Rx regulatory burden is far less than the American Rx regulatory burden. So what we're really talking about here is a loophole around regulatory bloat and waste.

Canadian drug prices are not subsidized by the government, they are set by the government. Again, all it does is force the cost of R&D on the U.S.

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

I'd give them more than one year, the original length of a patent was 14 years. I'd maybe halve that for medications to 7 years and allow a seven year extention based on your model above.

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

End of pharmaceutical research. Ever.

(01-12-2017 10:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

End of pharmaceutical research. Ever.

So if US consumers pay the same as those in Germany...then there'd be no R&D? Okay.

(01-12-2017 10:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

End of pharmaceutical research. Ever.

So if US consumers pay the same as those in Germany...then there'd be no R&D? Okay.

If Germany continues to refuse to pay its fair share of R&D costs, then yes.

The solution is simple. Get other countries to pay their fair share, and we'd be fine paying the same.

I guess Trump was right about big Pharma

(01-12-2017 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....
Use patent law.
"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.
Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."
So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

End of pharmaceutical research. Ever.

So if US consumers pay the same as those in Germany...then there'd be no R&D? Okay.

If Germany continues to refuse to pay its fair share of R&D costs, then yes.
The solution is simple. Get other countries to pay their fair share, and we'd be fine paying the same.

And, it would be something more than what Canadian prices are set at and something probably much less than current market rates in the US.

The basic math is that other countries fix prices at the cost of production, expecting the US consumer to bear the cost of research.

I don't remember when this all went south, but I do remember in the late 1990s time frame that a number of countries - India and some in Africa, IIRC - threatened to ignore US patents in order to produce drugs for the poor... I think particularly related to AIDS. I think that US companies agreed to make those drugs available at or near cost in order to avoid a breakdown of patent law, and I suspect that the reasoning in Europe went off the rails to make drugs as cheap there as they are in Africa.

If you want to know what price controls do, look to Venezuela or a number of historical examples...

(01-12-2017 10:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:26 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 10:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 06:01 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Of course the fix is pretty simple....

Use patent law.

"Effective 1/1/2018, any patent for any pharmaceutical product shall be valid for one year, which shall be unextendable subject to the following exception.

Exception: Pharmaceuticals offered to all American consumers at a maximum price calculated by taking the lowest average price received in Canada, Germany, Japan, France, the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Finland, Luxembourg, and Portugal, shall be able to receive a renewable one year exemption for a period of nine years. The renewal procedure shall include public comments."

So they'd get another year if they behave, and a 1 year patent if they don't.

End of pharmaceutical research. Ever.

So if US consumers pay the same as those in Germany...then there'd be no R&D? Okay.

If Germany continues to refuse to pay its fair share of R&D costs, then yes.

The solution is simple. Get other countries to pay their fair share, and we'd be fine paying the same.

If we never take away the ice cream cone, pharma will never change and neither will the other countries.