Akron, WMU, Houston, LaTech, ECU, Army...all fans who have replied to my post.

When was the last time your team had a shot at a national title in the division of football you play in. You are so gungho on being in the same level as Alabama and USC and Texas...so I ask you? When was it?

I'm a PSU fan...and our last NC game was 30 years ago. We had a few shots in there (94, 05, 08)...but it's been 30 stinking years. Due to a beauty contest system this year, PSU was denied a shot. Other teams FAR more prestigious than yours have been left out in recent years as well (USC '03, Auburn '04, Michigan '06, a few teams in '08, OkSt in '11, Baylor/TCU '14). If they can get left out, you guys have zero chance of ever sneaking in. Reality check!

How in God's green goodness are any of YOU ever, ever, ever going to get a legitimate shot at the championship of the "division" you claim to be a part of? The system I created would be a cash cow (taking advantage of current "dead weeks" for college football viewing) and would actually allow you to have an identity.

But you'd rather get shafted (like Boise State, Utah, Cincinnati, TCU in recent undefeated seasons) and root for your one little engine that could in the access bowl you get. (Or, little engine that couldn't...right WMU?). Whatever. You guys are playing fiddle on the Titanic. I hope Leo gives you his spot on the float.

Quote:When was the last time your team had a shot at a national title in the division of football you play in.

Define "shot". Going undefeated? Not many teams at all historically. That's not what this is about. It's not just for G5, but for everyone who isn't the current Alabama or Ohio State. But this year going undefeated -- given our schedule, I'm not b!tching about it. A NY bowl? Yes, and it's given. The real fault is the Playoff Schedule. If they had a 12-team playoff -- that would be a "shot" at it. The reason ALMOST NOBODY has a shot at it, and only expanded to 4 teams recently which still limits it huge -- is due to a lack of opportunity for Any Good team. A 12-team playoff would have given both PSU & WMU a shot. Along with USC who improved later in the season.

There's your solution. :) Take the NY6 of 12 teams and turn it into a playoff -- and give the Top 4 a bye. Easy Peasy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But for G5s, there's still room for potential WTFs. The cards could have been more fortunate for other teams where it'd be a WTF where WMU could have been left out, despite being undefeated and beating 2 P5s. But you'd always have a chance for the National Championship if they made the Access Bowl (among the others) a playoff game.

One could get Really ambitious and have of the 12 teams in the NY6 Playoff -- but have two slots dependent on two 4-team playoffs.
- 1 G5 4-team playoff (WMU vs Navy, Temple vs San Diego State) - Max 2 per G5 Conference; Div Winner Req'd
- 1 P5 4-team playoff (Wisconsin vs Auburn, Oklahoma St vs Louisville) - No Conf Tie-Ins; Colorado replaces Wisconsin for auto-slot, due to B1G conference auto-slot max reached

So altogether you have 18 teams. NOBODY can complain. 4 G5s, and 14 P5s have a shot at a National Championship. Those lower have to work Harder for it. Fair.

Dec 10th:
- G5 Semi-Final for G5 Slot
- P5 Semi-Final for Lowest P5 Slot

Dec 17th:
- G5 Finals for G5 Slot
- P5 Finals for P5 Slot
- Regular Bowls Commence

Dec 23rd/24th:
- 1st Round of PLAYOFFS [Round of 8; Alabama/Clemson/OSU/Wash Top 4 get a Bye still]
- Regular Bowls still spaced around this

Dec 30th/31st:
- 2nd Round of PLAYOFFS [4 Winners of Round of 8 *VS* Top 4 who had a bye]
- Regular Bowls still dispursed around

Jan 7th:
- Playoff Semi-Finals [Last 4 Standing]

Jan 16th (Mon):
- NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME

(01-12-2017 01:30 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Akron, WMU, Houston, LaTech, ECU, Army...all fans who have replied to my post.

When was the last time your team had a shot at a national title in the division of football you play in. You are so gungho on being in the same level as Alabama and USC and Texas...so I ask you? When was it?

I'm a PSU fan...and our last NC game was 30 years ago. We had a few shots in there (94, 05, 08)...but it's been 30 stinking years. Due to a beauty contest system this year, PSU was denied a shot. Other teams FAR more prestigious than yours have been left out in recent years as well (USC '03, Auburn '04, Michigan '06, a few teams in '08, OkSt in '11, Baylor/TCU '14). If they can get left out, you guys have zero chance of ever sneaking in. Reality check!

How in God's green goodness are any of YOU ever, ever, ever going to get a legitimate shot at the championship of the "division" you claim to be a part of? The system I created would be a cash cow (taking advantage of current "dead weeks" for college football viewing) and would actually allow you to have an identity.

But you'd rather get shafted (like Boise State, Utah, Cincinnati, TCU in recent undefeated seasons) and root for your one little engine that could in the access bowl you get. (Or, little engine that couldn't...right WMU?). Whatever. You guys are playing fiddle on the Titanic. I hope Leo gives you his spot on the float.

You just answered your own question. Despite high expectations, its been 30 years since Penn St was really relevant to the national championship conversation---yet not one person has suggested Penn State drop to FCS where its easier to qualify for an actual playoff. When was the last time Texas Tech was in a major New Years Day game? Are they giving up FBS?

Nobody is going to demote themselves into the "who cares" level B1A sub-championship. Why? Because its not THE national championship.

I considered your list of the 16 top seeds for this year. I'm not sure there is a single school among them that would go for this idea. Don't have a shot at the NC in your division? That's true of all but maybe 20 or so schools in all of FBS. National championships aren't why those schools play football in the first place. Clearly, they aren't why 20 or so FCS schools in the past 20 years have opted out of a chance for an NC to get a shot at a bowl game instead.

The vast majority of G5 schools do not want a separate "playoff". They are already strapped for cash. Why would they want to sign up for something where the costs of participating are greater than any revenue it would generate? This would be a colossal money loser, and would diminish the stature of the G5 in the process. It's a lose-lose.

(01-11-2017 05:08 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Your effort is admirable.

Your proposal is a non-starter.

Internet discussions in a nutshell.

Even when the discussion/proposal is completely reasonable and thoughtful, and everyone in the discussion agrees with it -- minor miracles in their own right -- the actual people who make decisions will just come back with "sorry, that's not on the table".

(01-12-2017 02:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  I considered your list of the 16 top seeds for this year. I'm not sure there is a single school among them that would go for this idea. Don't have a shot at the NC in your division? That's true of all but maybe 20 or so schools in all of FBS. National championships aren't why those schools play football in the first place. Clearly, they aren't why 20 or so FCS schools in the past 20 years have opted out of a chance for an NC to get a shot at a bowl game instead.

The vast majority of G5 schools do not want a separate "playoff". They are already strapped for cash. Why would they want to sign up for something where the costs of participating are greater than any revenue it would generate? This would be a colossal money loser, and would diminish the stature of the G5 in the process. It's a lose-lose.

I don't know how to quantitatively prove (for or against) the merits...but here's my thinking. The G5 schools are already being squeezed out of the bowl picture. Networks are less and less interested in P5 vs. G5 games...simply because P5 schools are more notable (even when they are worse on the field).

I believe that the G5 could get more money per game for the 8 playoff games I proposed in round 1 than they get for the G5 vs. G5 bowl games currently played (which are probably about 8 in number?). If not more, equal. Now, you will not and cannot convince me that four playoff games on Dec 16/17 will not make solid money for the G5. I'm thinking...equal to many of the post-Xmas bowl games (Alamo/Holiday/Sun/Pinstripe) at least.

I'm not done. I think that a G5 semifinal would very good ratings...not much less than the WMU/Wiscy or LSU/UL or Sugar Bowl. Why? People love a playoff...and this would accentuate that fact!!! Sure...P5 top 15 teams are going to get eyeballs...but the game (in the end) doesn't mean much. Four G5 teams FIGHTING for a championship? That means something to a lot of people. The G5 championship game...wouldn't get equal ratings with the P5 semifinal...but it would rival the Orange/Rose this year. Again...it's not USC/PSU or FSU/UM...but it's for a championship and it's high quality football.

This system would make more money for the G5 than they currently get (and that their dwindling economics will get anytime soon).

(01-12-2017 03:07 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 02:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  I considered your list of the 16 top seeds for this year. I'm not sure there is a single school among them that would go for this idea. Don't have a shot at the NC in your division? That's true of all but maybe 20 or so schools in all of FBS. National championships aren't why those schools play football in the first place. Clearly, they aren't why 20 or so FCS schools in the past 20 years have opted out of a chance for an NC to get a shot at a bowl game instead.

The vast majority of G5 schools do not want a separate "playoff". They are already strapped for cash. Why would they want to sign up for something where the costs of participating are greater than any revenue it would generate? This would be a colossal money loser, and would diminish the stature of the G5 in the process. It's a lose-lose.

I don't know how to quantitatively prove (for or against) the merits...but here's my thinking. The G5 schools are already being squeezed out of the bowl picture. Networks are less and less interested in P5 vs. G5 games...simply because P5 schools are more notable (even when they are worse on the field).

I believe that the G5 could get more money per game for the 8 playoff games I proposed in round 1 than they get for the G5 vs. G5 bowl games currently played (which are probably about 8 in number?). If not more, equal. Now, you will not and cannot convince me that four playoff games on Dec 16/17 will not make solid money for the G5. I'm thinking...equal to many of the post-Xmas bowl games (Alamo/Holiday/Sun/Pinstripe) at least.

I'm not done. I think that a G5 semifinal would very good ratings...not much less than the WMU/Wiscy or LSU/UL or Sugar Bowl. Why? People love a playoff...and this would accentuate that fact!!! Sure...P5 top 15 teams are going to get eyeballs...but the game (in the end) doesn't mean much. Four G5 teams FIGHTING for a championship? That means something to a lot of people. The G5 championship game...wouldn't get equal ratings with the P5 semifinal...but it would rival the Orange/Rose this year. Again...it's not USC/PSU or FSU/UM...but it's for a championship and it's high quality football.

This system would make more money for the G5 than they currently get (and that their dwindling economics will get anytime soon).

I find that to be VERY unlikely. The current CFP deal would have to be abandoned to implement your plan. The current CFP deal pays the G5 85 million. So, the networks would need to pay 85 million just for your plan to BREAK EVEN. The G5 would need to publicly set themselves apart from the rest of FBS as competing for a lower level secondary championship.

No G5 has any interest I doing that. Thus, your plan would have to offer a level of pay that is substantially MORE than 85 million to even illicit any interest. If it paid 250 million---nearly 3 times the current G5 share of the CFP, it would represent 3.5 million per team.

Frankly, even with a $250 million payout, I suspect at least 50% of G5 teams would still not be willing to self-demote themselves to a sub-level of FBS. No network is paying $85 million for this plan---much less $250 million.

This is what should happen.

The Citrus Bowl wants to be a NY6 bowl but is not. This is what they do the Citrus Bowl starts an 8 team playoff with the winners moving on to play for the Citrus Bowl Championship (i.e. NIT for football). They offer the best teams they can get. This is how they get schools to join. Offer teams a chance to host the first two rounds on campus and they get to keep all the ticket money plus pay the teams a "bowl" payout with teams who make it further making more money. The Citrus Bowl gets this money by offering NBC or CBS or ABC/ESPN to pay for this tournament (would be great tv). This is how I see it happening this year.

Dec. 9
8 App State @ 1 Louisville
5 San Diego State @ 4 BYU
6 Temple @ 3 Minnesota
7 WKU @ 2 LSU

Dec. 16
Second Round

Dec. 31
Citrus Bowl Championship

Just no.

How about all the "P5" schools who have not won a national title in 30 years form their own playoff? Getting your butt kicked by Alabama and LSU does not make Kentuck or Vandy better than Boise or Appalachian State.

(01-12-2017 02:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-11-2017 05:08 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Your effort is admirable.

Your proposal is a non-starter.

Internet discussions in a nutshell.

Even when the discussion/proposal is completely reasonable and thoughtful, and everyone in the discussion agrees with it -- minor miracles in their own right -- the actual people who make decisions will just come back with "sorry, that's not on the table".

In this case everyone seems to be in agreement that it's not desired except P5 schools/fans and the NIU AD.

Now if the G5 is going to keep getting squeezed out of decent bowls with P5 schools then I think they should work together to make some compelling bowl matchups amongst themselves and promote those bowls. But we shouldn't abandon the CFP structure or the access bowl.

(01-12-2017 03:07 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 02:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  I considered your list of the 16 top seeds for this year. I'm not sure there is a single school among them that would go for this idea. Don't have a shot at the NC in your division? That's true of all but maybe 20 or so schools in all of FBS. National championships aren't why those schools play football in the first place. Clearly, they aren't why 20 or so FCS schools in the past 20 years have opted out of a chance for an NC to get a shot at a bowl game instead.

The vast majority of G5 schools do not want a separate "playoff". They are already strapped for cash. Why would they want to sign up for something where the costs of participating are greater than any revenue it would generate? This would be a colossal money loser, and would diminish the stature of the G5 in the process. It's a lose-lose.

I don't know how to quantitatively prove (for or against) the merits...but here's my thinking. The G5 schools are already being squeezed out of the bowl picture. Networks are less and less interested in P5 vs. G5 games...simply because P5 schools are more notable (even when they are worse on the field).

I believe that the G5 could get more money per game for the 8 playoff games I proposed in round 1 than they get for the G5 vs. G5 bowl games currently played (which are probably about 8 in number?). If not more, equal. Now, you will not and cannot convince me that four playoff games on Dec 16/17 will not make solid money for the G5. I'm thinking...equal to many of the post-Xmas bowl games (Alamo/Holiday/Sun/Pinstripe) at least.

I'm not done. I think that a G5 semifinal would very good ratings...not much less than the WMU/Wiscy or LSU/UL or Sugar Bowl. Why? People love a playoff...and this would accentuate that fact!!! Sure...P5 top 15 teams are going to get eyeballs...but the game (in the end) doesn't mean much. Four G5 teams FIGHTING for a championship? That means something to a lot of people. The G5 championship game...wouldn't get equal ratings with the P5 semifinal...but it would rival the Orange/Rose this year. Again...it's not USC/PSU or FSU/UM...but it's for a championship and it's high quality football.

This system would make more money for the G5 than they currently get (and that their dwindling economics will get anytime soon).

"People love a playoff"? Where is your evidence for that statement? They may like it for the very best levels of competition. But they are pretty lukewarm about football playoffs below the FBS level, and by FBS I mean the very top programs in the FBS.

For the record, 35 G5 teams played in a bowl this year. Five of those were against P5 opponents. The other 30 played other G5 teams. That's a total of 20 bowl games involving at least one G5 team (half of all the bowl games played). That's hardly being "squeezed out" of the bowl picture.

Even if a G5 team were ranked top 4 going into CCG weekend, that top 4 Go5 would likely get bumped due to a crappy CCG opponent. Eliminating the CCG and going straight into the semifinal during CCG week ensures one more decent win for two of the top G5 schools heading into the final CFP ranking.

The ideal situation, just like for the P5, is to maximize drama by having 5 conferences play for 4 spots. Every week takes in the importance of an elimination round. Which is the worst G5 is actually a meaningful conversation.

(01-12-2017 04:14 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Even if a G5 team were ranked top 4 going into CCG weekend, that top 4 Go5 would likely get bumped due to a crappy CCG opponent. Eliminating the CCG and going straight into the semifinal during CCG week ensures one more decent win for two of the top G5 schools heading into the final CFP ranking.

The ideal situation, just like for the P5, is to maximize drama by having 5 conferences play for 4 spots. Every week takes in the importance of an elimination round. Which is the worst G5 is actually a meaningful conversation.

The best is to maintain the G5's current position in the CFP while creating some sort of meaningful post season for the 4 G5 champs not making the access bowl. My favorite idea is to create 3 additional high-payout bowls--2 of which pit #2 and #3 G5 champs vs #3-#5 selections from P5 conferences (basically, Liberty/Gator/Belk level games). The 3rd G5 created champions bowl would pit the #4 and #5 G5 champs against one another.

The second best plan would be a "NIT" type tournament where the 4 remaining G5 champs would play in a tournament against the top 4 schools (G5 or P5) that were not invited to any CFP related game.

The beauty of either of these plans is that they can co-exist within the current CFP and wouldn't necessarily represent any self demotion by the G5. They would simply represent a more interesting post season opportunity that does not affect the current CFP framework. In fact, it works best if (like the NIT) its owned by the dominant championship organization of the sport (in this case, the CFP).

(01-12-2017 04:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-12-2017 04:14 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  Even if a G5 team were ranked top 4 going into CCG weekend, that top 4 Go5 would likely get bumped due to a crappy CCG opponent. Eliminating the CCG and going straight into the semifinal during CCG week ensures one more decent win for two of the top G5 schools heading into the final CFP ranking.

The ideal situation, just like for the P5, is to maximize drama by having 5 conferences play for 4 spots. Every week takes in the importance of an elimination round. Which is the worst G5 is actually a meaningful conversation.

The best is to maintain the G5's current position in the CFP while creating some sort of meaningful post season for the 4 G5 champs not making the access bowl. My favorite idea is to create 3 additional high-payout bowls--2 of which pit #2 and #3 G5 champs vs #3-#5 selections from P5 conferences (basically, Liberty/Gator/Belk level games). The 3rd G5 created champions bowl would pit the #4 and #5 G5 champs against one another.

The second best plan would be a "NIT" type tournament where the 4 remaining G5 champs would play in a tournament against the top 4 schools (G5 or P5) that were not invited to any CFP related game.

The beauty of either of these plans is that they can co-exist within the current CFP and wouldn't necessarily represent any self demotion by the G5. They would simply represent a more interesting post season opportunity that does not affect the current CFP framework. In fact, it works best if (like the NIT) its owned by the dominant championship organization of the sport (in this case, the CFP).

NOW you're on to something.

A G5 playoff only benefits the P5 because it separates us from them and makes us less relevant than we already are. An NIT-style thing where we're still playing decent P5 schools is a lot better.

(01-12-2017 01:30 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  Akron, WMU, Houston, LaTech, ECU, Army...all fans who have replied to my post.

When was the last time your team had a shot at a national title in the division of football you play in. You are so gungho on being in the same level as Alabama and USC and Texas...so I ask you? When was it?

I'm a PSU fan...and our last NC game was 30 years ago. We had a few shots in there (94, 05, 08)...but it's been 30 stinking years. Due to a beauty contest system this year, PSU was denied a shot. Other teams FAR more prestigious than yours have been left out in recent years as well (USC '03, Auburn '04, Michigan '06, a few teams in '08, OkSt in '11, Baylor/TCU '14). If they can get left out, you guys have zero chance of ever sneaking in. Reality check!

How in God's green goodness are any of YOU ever, ever, ever going to get a legitimate shot at the championship of the "division" you claim to be a part of? The system I created would be a cash cow (taking advantage of current "dead weeks" for college football viewing) and would actually allow you to have an identity.

But you'd rather get shafted (like Boise State, Utah, Cincinnati, TCU in recent undefeated seasons) and root for your one little engine that could in the access bowl you get. (Or, little engine that couldn't...right WMU?). Whatever. You guys are playing fiddle on the Titanic. I hope Leo gives you his spot on the float.

Houston this year was in the running to make the CFP this year. If they have won all of their games? They might be in there instead of Ohio State.

Having an "NIT" Playoff would be good idea. I think instead of individual bowls, there should be a collection of playoffs/tournaments...

... 1 being the National Championship one, with the NY6 of 12 (Top 4 with a Bye)...

... and the others being 8-team tournaments. The 2nd best being the "NIT" version, which too, would always get a G5, and possibly 2.

You expand the New Years Day bowls to 8 games
So that every conference champ gets in a major bowl

Then someday when people coome to their senses the 8 winners
Of those games advance to the playoff


FBS is one division. Did the one G5 school in a new years day bowl get blown
Out. Nooo. Western Michigan played a very competitive game
Who got blown out was 2 of the so called power schools. Ohio State
And Washington.

There is no support from any schools to have a G5 playoff. If we wanted
A championship nobody gives a crap about we would drop to the FCS

(01-13-2017 12:22 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Having an "NIT" Playoff would be good idea. I think instead of individual bowls, there should be a collection of playoffs/tournaments...

... 1 being the National Championship one, with the NY6 of 12 (Top 4 with a Bye)...

... and the others being 8-team tournaments. The 2nd best being the "NIT" version, which too, would always get a G5, and possibly 2.

For the football "NIT" to work, it would have to be like the basketball NIT. The basketball NIT offers auto-bids to any regular season conference champ that didnt make the tournament. So the football NIT would automatically get any G5 champs not in the access bowl or playoff. The other 4 NIT participants would be the top CFP ranked teams not heading to any CFP sponsored bowl (so none of the NY6 Bowls would be affected). If the CFP owned it, it would have alot of clout and would pay better than any non NY6 destination---so its a winning deal for the P5 participants as well. Most importantly, it would solve every G5 conference's most desperate need---a guaranteed post season destination thats important enough to give context and drama to each G5 conference race.

(01-13-2017 12:44 AM)Hilltop75 Wrote:  You expand the New Years Day bowls to 8 games
So that every conference champ gets in a major bowl

Then someday when people coome to their senses the 8 winners
Of those games advance to the playoff


FBS is one division. Did the one G5 school in a new years day bowl get blown
Out. Nooo. Western Michigan played a very competitive game
Who got blown out was 2 of the so called power schools. Ohio State
And Washington.

There is no support from any schools to have a G5 playoff. If we wanted
A championship nobody gives a crap about we would drop to the FCS

I could live with that. The issue is they would be G5 vs G5---not sure how big a deal they would be or how much they would be worth.

(01-13-2017 01:02 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-13-2017 12:22 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  Having an "NIT" Playoff would be good idea. I think instead of individual bowls, there should be a collection of playoffs/tournaments...

... 1 being the National Championship one, with the NY6 of 12 (Top 4 with a Bye)...

... and the others being 8-team tournaments. The 2nd best being the "NIT" version, which too, would always get a G5, and possibly 2.

For the football "NIT" to work, it would have to be like the basketball NIT. The basketball NIT offers auto-bids to any regular season conference champ that didnt make the tournament. So the football NIT would automatically get any G5 champs not in the access bowl or playoff. The other 4 NIT participants would be the top CFP ranked teams not heading to any CFP sponsored bowl (so none of the NY6 Bowls would be affected). If the CFP owned it, it would have alot of clout and would pay better than any non NY6 destination---so its a winning deal for the P5 participants as well. Most importantly, it would solve every G5 conference's most desperate need---a guaranteed post season destination thats important enough to give context and drama to each G5 conference race.

I actually really like this.