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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #1
Venting -
*** I originally had this in another thread, but to not get buried in a game thread and allow you easy access to reply and voice your opinions, I put it in its own place.***

Many of you don't like me, but that doesn't bother me a lick because you don't really know me. I tell it like it is, and yes, sometimes I come across as arrogant and it's usually confused with my passion for KSU. I am going to get on my soapbox and you can choose to like it or not. You can have the last word when you bash me for these opinions, because I am not going to reply.

Armchair quarterbacks.....I mean coaches. All of you who have coached anything greater than your kids team step up and raise your hand. I suspect nobody on the board has coached a HS or AAU team here. Hell, I suspect most of you criticizing the coaches never played at the HS level or above. So watch the damn game and muzzle your criticisms of the coaching staff because you don't know jack ****.

Among many of the comments that are laughable, "this was a huge swing game in our season" is right at the top. How the hell do you know today that last nights game was a huge swing game in our season? Best I can tell it has the same weight and bearing as the MAC opener. Or the game we will play at BG later in the season. Or the EMU game. Or the rest of them (meaning, every game counts as 1 game). We are 3 games into the conference season and 90% of the people on the board are throwing in the towel. I bet all of you turned off the National Championship game on Monday night at halftime because Clemson was down 14-7 and it was over.

Comparisons to the football team which has had only 1 winning season the last 25 (or whatever it is) are also laughable. Get a freaking clue. This team has had like NO losing seasons over the last 25 (again, I am not doing research and just speaking loosely). "Everyone in the league is passing us by". GET REAL. WMU was supposed to be good and they are a dumpster fire. CMU is 0-3 in conference and looking shaky as hell. BG and Miami are not very good at all. UB has come back to reality. I could go on and on and on. Might we lose to some of them a la NIU last night. Sure. Does that mean we are pathetic and in the same conversation as our football program? Hell no.

Lastly, I think most of the people on this board are (as one of my least favorite Memphis basketball coaches used to say) miserables. You just love to come on here and voice the criticisms. Like the only thing that gives you pleasure is a golfer doing well in the PGA. Or if a wrestler wins a National Championship. Those things make me proud, but so does most every other aspect of being a KSU supporter. This board whines incessantly about football, basketball, players attitudes, scheduling, Joel, recruiting, coaching hires/fires, facilities, too much attention paid to grades, fundraising, marketing of events, etc. etc. - It just goes on and on.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, If you can't find happiness cheering for the Golden Flashes, why do it? Go to the movies. Go to dinner with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. But the days on me wanting to come on here and read this BS "Tradition never graduates...It eventually just flunks out due to extremely mediocre recruiting and coaching" are over. Let me spit the truth, the people posting on this board suck worse than any of our teams.
01-11-2017 09:38 AM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Venting -
In order for me to agree with your post I guess I would have to know what your expectations for a fan message are.

I'll get this out of the way...In my opinion personal shots at players and coaches, and to a certain extent overly harsh criticism of the program, are not the best course of action.

But those are few and far between. Read the majority of the discussion threads on this board and the games are being discussed. People have dialogue about the quality of the product, their thoughts on strategy and their takeaways (positive or negative) on the team that they follow.

And to suggest that because many haven't coached at a certain level their right to chime in on the game or criticize the product is revoked...give me a break. This is a fan message board discussing division one college basketball. And for the past few years, we have been relatively gentle discussing pretty mediocre division one college basketball.

If Rob Senderoff or Rick Pitino or Tom Landry or Flip Saunders or Mike Tomlin is concerned with the opinions expressed on a fan message board then we have a hole different set of problems. Clearly some fans/boosters/supporters take it a bit more personal than others and that is fine.

Many are frustrated that we are being sold snake oil that this is the flagship program. The Flagship program? From where I am sitting a once proud basketball program seems to be on the decline and here we have a group of fans, none of them "miserables", discussing why this is happening and venting their own frustrations. Nothing wrong with that.

Kent State Basketball has become a program that struggles to close out games, has no real rotation [not a new problem] and no identifiable offensive system. The development isn't there. And again, with a few exceptions, that is what we are talking about here.

In fact my frustration on this message board lies more with the apologists than the critics.

Go Flashes.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2017 11:19 AM by fallsdog.)
01-11-2017 10:29 AM
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GFlash68 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Venting -
(01-11-2017 10:29 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  In order for me to agree with your post I guess I would have to know what your expectations for a fan message are.

I'll get this out of the way...In my opinion personal shots at players and coaches, and to a certain extent overly harsh criticism of the program, are not the best course of action.

But those are few and far between. Read the majority of the discussion threads on this board and the games are being discussed. People have dialogue about the quality of the product, their thoughts on strategy and their takeaways (positive or negative) on the team that they follow.

And to suggest that because many haven't coached at a certain level their right to chime in on the game or criticize the product is revoked...give me a break. This is a fan message board discussing division one college basketball. And for the past few years, we have been relatively gentle discussing pretty mediocre division one college basketball.

If Rob Senderoff or Rick Pitino or Tom Landry or Flip Saunders or Mike Tomlin is concerned with the opinions expressed on a fan message board then we have a hole different set of problems. Clearly some fans/boosters/supporters take it a bit more personal than others and that is fine.

Many are frustrated that we are being sold snake oil that this is the flagship program. The Flagship program? From where I am sitting a once proud basketball program seems to be on the decline and here we have a group of fans, none of them "miserables", discussing why this is happening and venting their own frustrations. Nothing wrong with that.

Kent State Basketball has become a program that struggles to close out games, has no real rotation [not a new problem] and no identifiable offensive system. The development isn't there. And again, with a few exceptions, that is what we are talking about here.

In fact my frustration on this message board lies more with the apologists than the critics.

Go Flashes.

Thank you for this post. It echos my feelings almost exactly.
01-11-2017 12:30 PM
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ksu315 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Venting -
Amen fallsdog. Danny I'll ignore the personal attacks and name calling as everyone knows that's your schtick. We're all dumb morons and you're the man because you get inside info and filled up water bottles 20 some years ago.

I think if you were here and saw them play consistently year over year, game over game you would have some of our concerns that you maybe cant see on TV or webcasts. Trust me the concern and negativity goes way beyond the 20-30 regulars on this board. Just people watch at games and you'll see the frustration by the majority of fans. Even the coaches seem beside themselves.

lack of Development is a huge concern and repeat of the same errors is alarming.

Bottom line is over Sendy's 6 years our MAC records are 10-6, 9-7, 7-11,12-6 and 10-8 with losses twice in MAC semis in years 1 and 2, once in mac qtrs. and twice in first round. 3 of those 5 were to our neighbor. If that's not mediocrity I'm not sure what is.
01-11-2017 01:11 PM
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Kentville Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Venting -
I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder why Akron with its crummy gym is able to recruit and keep talented players year after year while Kent flounders in the middle of the pack or maybe worse. Some fans, as well as the Athletic Department, seem to find that state of affairs acceptable.
01-11-2017 01:45 PM
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KSU Agee Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Venting -
I'm a KSU sports enthusiast. However, when it comes to basketball, our flagship sport, I am a nut! Losing is unacceptable to me. I will never tolerate it. With that being said, if we lose a game and it was hard fought, potentially out of our control, like Pitt last year when they just absolutely shot the lights out and drained contested shots, I can swallow that pill. But when we lose games the way we have been losing them this year, with what I've witnessed both live and on TV...that sh*t is not going to fly. It's just not.
01-11-2017 02:33 PM
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cschierh Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Venting -
Dannyb73

I don't agree with everything you write, but I'm glad you're active on the board.
01-11-2017 02:56 PM
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KSU93 Offline
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Post: #8
Venting -
I concur with Fallsdog and KSU315. We are passionate and we want to win. Obviously being the flagship program will take time. Hell, just last year our awesome AD wouldn't allocate enough money for pregame meals. Btw, that was a low blow saying we were worse than the football team. My God, please don't compare us to them!!
01-11-2017 03:14 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Venting -
Falls dog pretty much said it. The only thing I'll add is I also agree with cscierths post. I guess I understand why Danny defends the program almost to a fault. You can't get inside info and then say the program is becoming mediocre. Why he takes it personally only he knows. David Carducci who also was a great poster finally left for similar reasons. I assume if you are inside we do say some dumb things but perception is reality when your trying to please your customers. Kent should welcome the feedback.
01-11-2017 03:24 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Venting -
(01-11-2017 09:38 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  *** I originally had this in another thread, but to not get buried in a game thread and allow you easy access to reply and voice your opinions, I put it in its own place.***

Many of you don't like me, but that doesn't bother me a lick because you don't really know me. I tell it like it is, and yes, sometimes I come across as arrogant and it's usually confused with my passion for KSU. I am going to get on my soapbox and you can choose to like it or not. You can have the last word when you bash me for these opinions, because I am not going to reply.

Armchair quarterbacks.....I mean coaches. All of you who have coached anything greater than your kids team step up and raise your hand. I suspect nobody on the board has coached a HS or AAU team here. Hell, I suspect most of you criticizing the coaches never played at the HS level or above. So watch the damn game and muzzle your criticisms of the coaching staff because you don't know jack ****.

Among many of the comments that are laughable, "this was a huge swing game in our season" is right at the top. How the hell do you know today that last nights game was a huge swing game in our season? Best I can tell it has the same weight and bearing as the MAC opener. Or the game we will play at BG later in the season. Or the EMU game. Or the rest of them (meaning, every game counts as 1 game). We are 3 games into the conference season and 90% of the people on the board are throwing in the towel. I bet all of you turned off the National Championship game on Monday night at halftime because Clemson was down 14-7 and it was over.

Comparisons to the football team which has had only 1 winning season the last 25 (or whatever it is) are also laughable. Get a freaking clue. This team has had like NO losing seasons over the last 25 (again, I am not doing research and just speaking loosely). "Everyone in the league is passing us by". GET REAL. WMU was supposed to be good and they are a dumpster fire. CMU is 0-3 in conference and looking shaky as hell. BG and Miami are not very good at all. UB has come back to reality. I could go on and on and on. Might we lose to some of them a la NIU last night. Sure. Does that mean we are pathetic and in the same conversation as our football program? Hell no.

Lastly, I think most of the people on this board are (as one of my least favorite Memphis basketball coaches used to say) miserables. You just love to come on here and voice the criticisms. Like the only thing that gives you pleasure is a golfer doing well in the PGA. Or if a wrestler wins a National Championship. Those things make me proud, but so does most every other aspect of being a KSU supporter. This board whines incessantly about football, basketball, players attitudes, scheduling, Joel, recruiting, coaching hires/fires, facilities, too much attention paid to grades, fundraising, marketing of events, etc. etc. - It just goes on and on.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, If you can't find happiness cheering for the Golden Flashes, why do it? Go to the movies. Go to dinner with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. But the days on me wanting to come on here and read this BS "Tradition never graduates...It eventually just flunks out due to extremely mediocre recruiting and coaching" are over. Let me spit the truth, the people posting on this board suck worse than any of our teams.

I do agree that Kent sports should be fun, but we have seen declines in some sports over the last few years and I understand the frustrations of some fans. I am disappointed that the men's basketball team continues to blow games that seem very winnable and that they haven't learned to seal the deal under Coach Senderoff. I continue to think that Senderoff did fix many of the problems with the club when he took over and the team would have blown up if he didn't take the helm. That said, after six years, I have been waiting for him to take it to the next level and it hasn't happened.

But the big picture is that this forum should be an opportunity for fans to give their opinions and no one has the right to demand that others change how they post.
01-11-2017 07:15 PM
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Flashketball Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Venting -
First, Bopol +1000

Second, I'm assuming it was the "recruiting" word that touched a nerve given the occasional "inside info" that's shared. Whatever. It's a fan forum. Fan is short for fanatic. Fanatics are passionate. So, just like you feel the need to whine about someone saying something you don't like, I feel the need to wine about performances like the OU game. And the Oregon st game. And the NIU game. I was there from 99-03. While I don't expect an Elite 8 team every year, I expect more than what's been put on the court the last handful of years. Could I do better? Hell no. But could someone else? Hell yes. My opinion. Which I'm allowed to have. If you don't like it, block me. It works. Well at least it normally works, until the site for some reason removes the people you block, which is how I saw this post to begin with.
01-11-2017 08:31 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Venting -
I didn't want to respond to this, but the woman is watching something dumb, and I'm bored... so what the heck.

From what I can tell, I was the first to criticize the coaching last night and I had the longest post on it so I guess some of this is directed at me. So I guess I'll weigh in. I don't think any of the criticism I made regarding last night's game, or the rotations was unfair. I'm NOT calling for any coach's jobs or implying that I think we have the wrong people in charge. If anyone disagrees with any point I made last night, by all means, respond to it. Address my point and why you think I'm wrong, don't address my right to make the point.

Lastly I won't stoop to defending my "qualifications" to make any of the observations I've made... which I almost always provide stats to support.

Now let's get back to what's really important... sh!t posting about how Kenny Kaminski is 6 feet 8 inches of fake tough guy who pulled down exactly 0 rebounds in 23 minutes last night.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 07:31 PM by anti-zip.)
01-11-2017 08:58 PM
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Doc KSU Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Venting -
(01-11-2017 02:56 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Dannyb73

I don't agree with everything you write, but I'm glad you're active on the board.

My sentiments exactly.
01-11-2017 11:58 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Venting -
Burden said, "I continue to think that Senderoff did fix many of the problems with the club when he took over and the team would have blown up if he didn't take the helm." Interesting. I never heard that before. I wish he would explain. All I know is that Coach Senderoff has not done as well as the previous four coaches, particularly against MAC opponents and especially their main rival, Akron. Maybe most important, they just don't look good most of the time. Recruiting? Coaching? I just don't know.
01-12-2017 08:06 AM
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delflash Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Venting -
I believe KSU basketball has been hurt by the extensive roster turnover from year to year. It's difficult to develop cohesion when your players continually change. Of course, KSU is not alone in seeing players come and go at the drop of a hat. It's the new trend. But it just seems our turnover has been exceptionally high. This does not facilitate fan interest either.
01-12-2017 09:37 AM
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Albert Flasher Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Venting -
I agree with delflash. Especially for this year, when nine new players joined the roster, along with a new assistant. The pressure to develop player chemistry, not to mention the team rotation in such a short time span has to have a [negative] impact. Therefore, I have acknowledged that this year is a rebuilding year, and leave it at that.

It is frustrating because I measure expectations from previous performance, which, for me, is hard not to do.

A bit off-topic, but I really wish KSU would schedule more games out east, especially with Big East teams. Would gain more exposure, plus the east coast has previously proven to be fertile ground for recruiting. Not to mention I would be able see the team in person.
01-12-2017 10:02 AM
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OLNWFLSH Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 09:37 AM)delflash Wrote:  I believe KSU basketball has been hurt by the extensive roster turnover from year to year. It's difficult to develop cohesion when your players continually change. Of course, KSU is not alone in seeing players come and go at the drop of a hat. It's the new trend. But it just seems our turnover has been exceptionally high. This does not facilitate fan interest either.

I agree - I really think this team would/could be more consistent if we still had a guard like Kellon Thomas - that impacted us much more than I would have suspected. But then I always fall into those preseason traps about the level of talent that guys like Deberry will bring. I liked reading David Carducci posts - but he had a tendency to overestimate/exaggerate incoming talent. I see Hustle belt still has us ranked 4th in the MAC- I feel that's too high as road wins will be tough to come by. Let hope they start at WMU. The good thing about this venting thread is that it shows there are still some passionate fans out there!
01-12-2017 10:36 AM
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JimJoyce Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Venting -
My three biggest concerns over the last few years:

- lack of retention (mentioned above)
- lack of visible development
- deteriorating home schedule
01-12-2017 11:03 AM
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DavidCarducci Offline
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RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 10:36 AM)OLNWFLSH Wrote:  
(01-12-2017 09:37 AM)delflash Wrote:  I believe KSU basketball has been hurt by the extensive roster turnover from year to year. It's difficult to develop cohesion when your players continually change. Of course, KSU is not alone in seeing players come and go at the drop of a hat. It's the new trend. But it just seems our turnover has been exceptionally high. This does not facilitate fan interest either.

I agree - I really think this team would/could be more consistent if we still had a guard like Kellon Thomas - that impacted us much more than I would have suspected. But then I always fall into those preseason traps about the level of talent that guys like Deberry will bring. I liked reading David Carducci posts - but he had a tendency to overestimate/exaggerate incoming talent. I see Hustle belt still has us ranked 4th in the MAC- I feel that's too high as road wins will be tough to come by. Let hope they start at WMU. The good thing about this venting thread is that it shows there are still some passionate fans out there!

Thanks OLNWFLSH, I'm glad you liked my work. And I agree with you, I missed quite a bit in my evaluation of new talent.
I can think of so many players over the years who looked great in workouts and in the lead-up to the season. Just last year, I was convinced Marvin Jones would be a major impact player. He was athletic, had excellent range on his jumper. He dominated in some practices. For whatever reason, it didn't work out.
Maybe the most physically gifted player I've seen at KSU was Rashad Woods. Again, he didn't quite fit. I'm still convinced Tyree Evans could have been special here, but that injured finger really impacted his game, his ability to score and create his own shot.
Sometimes I was right, and maybe even had an impact in how some young players ended up being used and ultimately getting an early chance to develop. A late night up talking with Jim Christian and his staff ended with the decision to put freshman Chris Singletary and Rod Sherman into the starting lineup. By no means am I saying I convinced them to do that. But I was a big proponent of that decision. I've always liked it when high-ceiling freshman get a chance to start early in their careers, make some mistakes and grow along with veterans. I loved that potential with Pippen and Peterson at the start of the year and hope to see their opportunities continue to grow as the season goes on. I believe they could be special players.
But I agree with you. My intention wasn't to exaggerate, but I definitely overestimated. I tend be an optimist and that may have been a negative in my career as a reporter. It may have also been a negative for some players and coaches in that it led to fan expectations being higher than they should have been. Fortunately for all of you, I'm not a coach and I don't recruit! I can only hurt the program by creating a few dumb graphics, tweets, and radio commentary!
I have to say, I agree quite a bit with Danny. I hope none of you take this as an insult, but those of us who work so closely with these student-athletes and coaches do get a bit oversensitive about criticism of them. We see the hard work behind the scenes and we know and care about them as people. So, when several fans were heckling our own players during and after the game on Tuesday, I was really upset. I know one player in particular who was extremely hurt a week earlier by some really rude and obnoxious things that were shouted at him. We have a good fan base at Kent State and this kind of behavior is not the norm. Having spent a great deal of time in Europe, there's part of me that loves the way fans are there. Actually, they call themselves supporters rather than fans. They have a different relationship with their teams. They may get frustrated, but they are constantly supportive and do what they can to help the team and create a home-field/court advantage during a season, even in a down year. They get excited for gameday and the chance to cheer their team no matter what, through thick and thin.
There are some really good young men on this men's basketball team who could benefit from that kind of relationship with the fan base. I enjoy being around these players. Support from fans can help them get through a slump or a stretch when they are struggling with confidence. That positive gameday environment also helps in recruiting. Kids want to play at a place where fans are into the game – even an ugly game – and do what they can to pull the team out of a bad stretch.
Anyway, sorry about getting up on the soapbox. I'm a Kent State employee, but I've spent my entire life here, going to games with my father starting at around age 3. I care about the men's basketball program, but I also care about the people who make up the program, and I'd love to see the fans to have more of a symbiotic relationship with an understanding that they really can make a difference in a very positive way.
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2017 12:37 PM by DavidCarducci.)
01-12-2017 12:04 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Venting -
(01-12-2017 08:06 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  Burden said, "I continue to think that Senderoff did fix many of the problems with the club when he took over and the team would have blown up if he didn't take the helm." Interesting. I never heard that before. I wish he would explain. All I know is that Coach Senderoff has not done as well as the previous four coaches, particularly against MAC opponents and especially their main rival, Akron. Maybe most important, they just don't look good most of the time. Recruiting? Coaching? I just don't know.

That was bopol who said that. I too would be interested in what he meant.
01-12-2017 12:09 PM
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