(01-28-2017 09:55 AM)p23570 Wrote:  The suggestion I made would cost nothing and add millions of viewers in the footprint by adding BYU content to the ACCN. Just think about all the mormons in NY, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc...

Your perception of the LDS population in the northeast is factually inaccurate.

Total LDS population in these states as of December 31, 2015:

NY - 81,132
PA - 51,336
MA - 27,055

LDS population by State

Quote:It's not much fun to debate with someone that always lose, never uses facts, and is clearly biased and thinking with your heart and not your brain.

A case of pot calling kettle black, perhaps?

Cheers,
Neil

(01-28-2017 09:55 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:16 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:31 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 11:16 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 10:22 PM)p23570 Wrote:  What would you suggest to strengthen the ACCN launch and increase viewers in the footprint?

I personally think BYU content would be a great asset to either the PACN or ACCN to increase viewer numbers in the footprint because those conferences lack the penetration that the SEC and B1G have. Let's be real. BC does not carry massachusetts. GT doesn't' carry Georgia. Cuse doesn't' carry NY. Pitt doesn't' carry Pennsylvania.

TIA. I look forward to your long and detailed answer.

I would suggest the ACC schools schedule interesting matchups and/or easy wins to get them to bowl games. BYU is neither for most ACC schools.

That's about what I expected. What you suggested does nothing for the ACCN. Nothing to improve viewer numbers.

So what would you suggest to strengthen the ACCN launch and increase viewer numbers in the footprint of places where the ACCN needs help like NY, Mass, Penn?

TIA. I look forward to your long and detailed answer.

The question is extremely simple. I don't need a long answer.

Your theory is that interesting matchups don't lead to more viewers? My theory is that your wrong.

Your theory is that teams that are consistently bowl eligible don't get better ratings than teams that aren't? Once again, my theory is that you are wrong.

Also, harping on random and arbitrary geographic boundaries is stupid. The ACC should concentrate on fans.

And once again yo give an answer that does not strengthen the ACCN for it's launch nor does it increase viewers in the footprint.

The suggestion I made would cost nothing and add millions of viewers in the footprint by adding BYU content to the ACCN. Just think about all the mormons in NY, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc...

Heck there are probably more BYU fans in NY than there are Syracuse fans. I know BYU had a good crowd at the WVU game in DC this year.

It's not much fun to debate with someone that always lose, never uses facts, and is clearly biased and thinking with your heart and not your brain. But I do admire yoru ability to bounce back after getting proven wrong over and over and over. You are like the energizer bunny.

So please tell us again how fantastic Cuse and its' fanbase is. How they control NY with the largest fanbase who ESPN won't even put on TV and has g-5 attendnace in the low 30's.

I don't think that you understand how basic economics works. Additionally, you clearly don't understand the collegiate sports landscape.

I suggest you either give up before I make you look dumber than you already look, or you do even a basic amount of research (i.e. actually get facts rather than just blindly claiming that you have them) and rethink the logical validity of your position.

Your suggestion of airing less interesting matchups wouldn't be free. It would cost the ACC millions in lost TV, ticket sales, and concessions revenue. That's why the conference hasn't done it, and that's why there is zero talk of the conference ever doing it.

Footprints are irrelevant. What matters is supply and demand. A large number of viewers have to want the content, and they have to be willing to pay for it - either directly or indirectly. If BYU was a one size fits all, ACC schools would independently schedule BYU every year on their own - it's not like it's hard to get H&H's w/ BYU. They're independent, so they have a big schedule to fill, and they lack the cache of teams like ND.

(01-28-2017 10:35 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Byu as a football only wouldn't be coming in alone, acc would also add 1 from the pool of cincy, uconn or wvu to get to 16. To think bringing in 2 of those doesn't help accn is silly. BYU football is a good brand, usually competitive and fills up a 70000 seat stadium + you hurt Any big 12 expansion possibilities. I would guess if byu ever made it to charlotte for the acc title game they would bring a big crowd. The same concept works with navy football only but that would be tough for them with 8 acc games, afa, army and nd on the schedule.

My understanding of the BYU scenario being presented by p23570 is not about having the Cougars join the ACC for football only but having a scheduling agreement with them, similar to ND in terms of football.

Was there another proposal I missed by a different poster about BYU joining the ACC for football only and giving up their independence in that sport?

Cheers,
Neil

(01-28-2017 10:44 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:50 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:09 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:29 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 11:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Fans are what matters, not arbitrary geographic lines. SU has fans.

About 33 - 34k fans per home football game to be exact. LOL. Don't you hate it when facts don't line up with your claims.

Give me a break on the fanbase stuff. Cuse is not going to carry NY for the ACCN. Notre Dame will be carrying the water for Cuse and BC becasue both have terrible fan support aside from cuse BB.

It's a private school in a state that's losing population, and its in the 5th biggest city in the state. The alumni/fan base is less concentrated than most schools, especially public schools. Also, SU AD reports cheeks in the seats, not tickets sold. Most schools report tickets sold. I think that UK even includes the press, players, and coaching staff (no joke). So you're not really comparing apples to apples.

But if you want to talk about fan support, Syracuse is routinely ranked #1 in 2 of its big 3 sports. Find another school that can say that.

Additionally, SU merch sales are usually in the high 20's to low 30's, despite a mediocre to bad FB product for the last 15 years.

And lastly, SU AD revenue compared favorably to most P5 schools, despite a weak to mediocre football product for the last 15 years and close to 0 local big corporate sponsors. That favorable comparison only increases when you take conference distributions out of the mix. And yes, SU AD rev > SU AD expenses by about $10 MM in the most recent DoE release.

But hey, you usually don't let facts and the truth get in the way of your laughably stupid narrative, so carry on.

Once again you provided nothing to support your assertion but ridiculous claims and zero facts. Attendance and TV ratings confirm Cuse football does not carry anything in NY.

Week 1,
not on national TV
Week 2
— 1.730M Louisville
Syracuse ACC 7:55 PM ESPN2
Week 3
not on national TV
Week 4
Not on national TV
Week 5
1.4 2.104M Notre Dame
Syracuse Ind.
ACC 12:00 PM ESPN
Week 6
Not on national TV
Week 7
— 295K Va. Tech
Syracuse ACC 3:39 PM ESPNU
Week 8
Not in national TV
Week 9
Not on national TV
Week 10
Not on national TV
Week 11
Not on national TV
Week 12
Not on national TV
Week 13
Not on national TV
Week 14
Not on national TV


So what we have learned so far with FACTS
Syracuse draws about 33k fans for home games. Syracuse is hardly ever on national TV and when they are it's usually due to playing a highly ranked team and little to do with the fans who watch Syracuse on TV. There is nothing here to suggest a large fan base nor is there any reason to believe they carry NY in any way shape or form. The reality is half a dozen B1G school are more popular in NY, as is ND.

You are making this way too easy. LOL.

Do you don't think Syracuse is private? And you don't think that it's in NY, a state that's losing population? And you don't think that Syracuse is about the 5th largest city in the state? And you don't think that SU counts cheeks in the seats vs tickets sold? And you don't think that schools commonly count tickets sold? And you don't think that SU regularly leads the nation in attendance in 2/3 biggest sports on campus? And you don't think that SU AD revenue stacks up well against other P5 schools, especially once conference distributions are taken out?and you don't think that SU AD ran about $10 MM in the black as per the last DoE Equity in Athletics disclosure? And you don't think that SU merch sales regularity rank in the high 20's to low 30's?

Which one of those facts do you deny?

And so far you've presented one obviously flawed data point, another obviously flawed data point w/o context, and made an obviously stupid statement concerning random and arbitrary geographic boundaries that are somewhere between largely irrelevant and completely irrelevant.

To be fair we won't know if New York State is losing population until 2020, it has only lost population in the 1980 census. It the year doesn't end in 0 it's an estimate.

I've also always found the way New York does its towns kind of odd. Hempstead township, in Nassau County, is 120 square mile and has 750,000 people. But that gets broken down into 5 square mile villages which are what are used as towns.

(01-27-2017 08:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 07:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 12:30 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 12:21 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 11:10 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Hopefully, the ACC doesn't fall into the same trap that the Big East did - waiting around for years and years hoping that Notre Dame would join as a full member before considering expansion. Notre Dame is not going to join a conference fully until it is guaranteed, sealed and delivered that they are locked out of the CFP otherwise. With their yearly schedule, they will always have the opportunity to compete for a spot (whether that is 4-team or more).

Frankly, Cincinnati, UConn and/or Temple all bring new markets, strong basketball and competitive football (UConn not so much - but they can rise again if playing ACC and regional schools more regularly). The question is do additions add money or dilute the pot? Nothing has been revealed to indicated that a UC/UConn/etc. would add additional money, hence no serious possibility of expansion.

If the Big East fell into such a "trap", it was one of their own conjuring.

ND told everyone loud, clear and often that it would never join the Big East for football, including when their membership came up for a vote and at every future opportunity thereafter.

Terry,

ND has been clear about its intentions of maintaining its independence status. But I do remember ND agreeing to play a certain amount of BE fb teams per season and not living up to that agreement. I dont remember if it was 2 games or 3 BE games they were supposed to play, but they didnt keep up with that agreement.

Not to rehash old threads or arguments, but ND back then said to help the BE, ND would play three BE teams per year.

There were two different interpretations to that, ND's and the BE's:

1) ND's take was that there was no agreement as to which teams and where. That is where/when ND tried to schedule games against Rutgers in the Meadowlands and UConn in Foxboro.

2) The BE's take was that verbal statement (nothing in writing, ever) was an ironclad commitment to play every BE team home/home on a rotation.

Since there never was any meeting of the minds on this, nothing much happened except what games were already scheduled with Pitt and a couple of others.

I'm still calling shenanigans hard.

And lest I be accused of having sour grapes, 1) it wouldn't have saved the BIG EAST, 2) Syracuse ended up in the best P5 conference from its perspective, 3) playing ND every 4 years wouldn't have saved SU FB, and 4) I'm not sure that it would have meant many extra games for SU anyway. We had 2-3 ND games on our schedule (or future schedule) when we are in the BE, which averages out to one every 4-5 years.

Well, without a written contract spelling out the terms and with both sides adamantly saying the verbal deal meant two totally different things, what you had there was.....nothing.

(01-28-2017 11:05 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 08:06 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 07:39 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 12:30 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 12:21 PM)TerryD Wrote:  If the Big East fell into such a "trap", it was one of their own conjuring.

ND told everyone loud, clear and often that it would never join the Big East for football, including when their membership came up for a vote and at every future opportunity thereafter.

Terry,

ND has been clear about its intentions of maintaining its independence status. But I do remember ND agreeing to play a certain amount of BE fb teams per season and not living up to that agreement. I dont remember if it was 2 games or 3 BE games they were supposed to play, but they didnt keep up with that agreement.

Not to rehash old threads or arguments, but ND back then said to help the BE, ND would play three BE teams per year.

There were two different interpretations to that, ND's and the BE's:

1) ND's take was that there was no agreement as to which teams and where. That is where/when ND tried to schedule games against Rutgers in the Meadowlands and UConn in Foxboro.

2) The BE's take was that verbal statement (nothing in writing, ever) was an ironclad commitment to play every BE team home/home on a rotation.

Since there never was any meeting of the minds on this, nothing much happened except what games were already scheduled with Pitt and a couple of others.

I'm still calling shenanigans hard.

And lest I be accused of having sour grapes, 1) it wouldn't have saved the BIG EAST, 2) Syracuse ended up in the best P5 conference from its perspective, 3) playing ND every 4 years wouldn't have saved SU FB, and 4) I'm not sure that it would have meant many extra games for SU anyway. We had 2-3 ND games on our schedule (or future schedule) when we are in the BE, which averages out to one every 4-5 years.

Well, without a written contract spelling out the terms and with both sides adamantly saying the verbal deal meant two totally different things, what you had there was.....nothing.

1) the statutes of frauds doesn't apply - it doesn't have to be written
2) I think that it's a stretch that both sides were saying two different things - or at least that ND didn't know what the BE was asking for.

Can I prove it? Nope.

Do I think it's fishy and probably underhanded? Yup.

That's why I call shenanigans.

(01-28-2017 10:53 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:55 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:16 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:31 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 11:16 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I would suggest the ACC schools schedule interesting matchups and/or easy wins to get them to bowl games. BYU is neither for most ACC schools.

That's about what I expected. What you suggested does nothing for the ACCN. Nothing to improve viewer numbers.

So what would you suggest to strengthen the ACCN launch and increase viewer numbers in the footprint of places where the ACCN needs help like NY, Mass, Penn?

TIA. I look forward to your long and detailed answer.

The question is extremely simple. I don't need a long answer.

Your theory is that interesting matchups don't lead to more viewers? My theory is that your wrong.

Your theory is that teams that are consistently bowl eligible don't get better ratings than teams that aren't? Once again, my theory is that you are wrong.

Also, harping on random and arbitrary geographic boundaries is stupid. The ACC should concentrate on fans.

And once again yo give an answer that does not strengthen the ACCN for it's launch nor does it increase viewers in the footprint.

The suggestion I made would cost nothing and add millions of viewers in the footprint by adding BYU content to the ACCN. Just think about all the mormons in NY, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc...

Heck there are probably more BYU fans in NY than there are Syracuse fans. I know BYU had a good crowd at the WVU game in DC this year.

It's not much fun to debate with someone that always lose, never uses facts, and is clearly biased and thinking with your heart and not your brain. But I do admire yoru ability to bounce back after getting proven wrong over and over and over. You are like the energizer bunny.

So please tell us again how fantastic Cuse and its' fanbase is. How they control NY with the largest fanbase who ESPN won't even put on TV and has g-5 attendnace in the low 30's.

I don't think that you understand how basic economics works. Additionally, you clearly don't understand the collegiate sports landscape.

I suggest you either give up before I make you look dumber than you already look, or you do even a basic amount of research (i.e. actually get facts rather than just blindly claiming that you have them) and rethink the logical validity of your position.

Your suggestion of airing less interesting matchups wouldn't be free. It would cost the ACC millions in lost TV, ticket sales, and concessions revenue. That's why the conference hasn't done it, and that's why there is zero talk of the conference ever doing it.

Footprints are irrelevant. What matters is supply and demand. A large number of viewers have to want the content, and they have to be willing to pay for it - either directly or indirectly. If BYU was a one size fits all, ACC schools would independently schedule BYU every year on their own - it's not like it's hard to get H&H's w/ BYU. They're independent, so they have a big schedule to fill, and they lack the cache of teams like ND.

The only person embarrassing himself here is you. At this point you have fallen below David ST levels, but please keep digging.

Adding BYU content to the ACCN wouldn't cost ESPN or the ACC a dime. But it would greatly expand the number of viewers in the footprint. BYU would bring more fans than the average OOC ACC game in any sport so it would likely INCREASE ticket sales and concession for those games. Once again you are out of touch with reality.

But thanks for proving my point for me that there are lots of Mormons in each state within the footprint.
Florida 150k
South Carolina 40k
North Carolina 83k
Virginia 94k
Pennsylvania 51k
Indiana 44k
NY 81k
Kentucky 34k
Massachusetts 27k
So there are over 600k members and that's not getting into fans of BYU.




Having regular BYU content on the ACCN is best done with a scheduling agreement. I have no idea why you can't see what is so obvious to everyone else but so be it. You are mildly challenged from what I can tell so I won't resort to the typical insults. I prefer to let the posts speak for themselves.

I have provided actual TV ratings and attendance numbers to demonstrate the poor fan numbers for Syracuse and all you have come up with is the number of Mormons in 3 States, completely leaving out the rest of the footprint, or the fact that there are BYU Fans who might not be members of the church much like Notre Dame.

Your entire argument has been a fail. YOu do the same thing over and over. You try to start a fight and end up looking like a complete idiot while you pretend you are somehow winning even though your points are never backed up with facts and every time I bring up facts is completely contradicts your statements. Keep up the fine work and thanks for the entertainment.

(01-28-2017 10:49 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:55 AM)p23570 Wrote:  The suggestion I made would cost nothing and add millions of viewers in the footprint by adding BYU content to the ACCN. Just think about all the mormons in NY, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc...

Your perception of the LDS population in the northeast is factually inaccurate.

Total LDS population in these states as of December 31, 2015:

NY - 81,132
PA - 51,336
MA - 27,055

LDS population by State

Quote:It's not much fun to debate with someone that always lose, never uses facts, and is clearly biased and thinking with your heart and not your brain.

A case of pot calling kettle black, perhaps?

Cheers,
Neil

Look Moron.

TV viewers does not = members of the church.

Considering you are such a loser that you PM me when you think I said somethign wrong GFY. Dorks like you are what ruins good sites. Trying to PM people becasue you have nothing better to do. Whaat a loser you are.

Cheers!! LOL

(01-28-2017 10:44 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:50 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:09 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:29 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 11:18 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Fans are what matters, not arbitrary geographic lines. SU has fans.

About 33 - 34k fans per home football game to be exact. LOL. Don't you hate it when facts don't line up with your claims.

Give me a break on the fanbase stuff. Cuse is not going to carry NY for the ACCN. Notre Dame will be carrying the water for Cuse and BC becasue both have terrible fan support aside from cuse BB.

It's a private school in a state that's losing population, and its in the 5th biggest city in the state. The alumni/fan base is less concentrated than most schools, especially public schools. Also, SU AD reports cheeks in the seats, not tickets sold. Most schools report tickets sold. I think that UK even includes the press, players, and coaching staff (no joke). So you're not really comparing apples to apples.

But if you want to talk about fan support, Syracuse is routinely ranked #1 in 2 of its big 3 sports. Find another school that can say that.

Additionally, SU merch sales are usually in the high 20's to low 30's, despite a mediocre to bad FB product for the last 15 years.

And lastly, SU AD revenue compared favorably to most P5 schools, despite a weak to mediocre football product for the last 15 years and close to 0 local big corporate sponsors. That favorable comparison only increases when you take conference distributions out of the mix. And yes, SU AD rev > SU AD expenses by about $10 MM in the most recent DoE release.

But hey, you usually don't let facts and the truth get in the way of your laughably stupid narrative, so carry on.

Once again you provided nothing to support your assertion but ridiculous claims and zero facts. Attendance and TV ratings confirm Cuse football does not carry anything in NY.

Week 1,
not on national TV
Week 2
— 1.730M Louisville
Syracuse ACC 7:55 PM ESPN2
Week 3
not on national TV
Week 4
Not on national TV
Week 5
1.4 2.104M Notre Dame
Syracuse Ind.
ACC 12:00 PM ESPN
Week 6
Not on national TV
Week 7
— 295K Va. Tech
Syracuse ACC 3:39 PM ESPNU
Week 8
Not in national TV
Week 9
Not on national TV
Week 10
Not on national TV
Week 11
Not on national TV
Week 12
Not on national TV
Week 13
Not on national TV
Week 14
Not on national TV


So what we have learned so far with FACTS
Syracuse draws about 33k fans for home games. Syracuse is hardly ever on national TV and when they are it's usually due to playing a highly ranked team and little to do with the fans who watch Syracuse on TV. There is nothing here to suggest a large fan base nor is there any reason to believe they carry NY in any way shape or form. The reality is half a dozen B1G school are more popular in NY, as is ND.

You are making this way too easy. LOL.

Do you don't think Syracuse is private? And you don't think that it's in NY, a state that's losing population? And you don't think that Syracuse is about the 5th largest city in the state? And you don't think that SU counts cheeks in the seats vs tickets sold? And you don't think that schools commonly count tickets sold? And you don't think that SU regularly leads the nation in attendance in 2/3 biggest sports on campus? And you don't think that SU AD revenue stacks up well against other P5 schools, especially once conference distributions are taken out?and you don't think that SU AD ran about $10 MM in the black as per the last DoE Equity in Athletics disclosure? And you don't think that SU merch sales regularity rank in the high 20's to low 30's?

Which one of those facts do you deny?

And so far you've presented one obviously flawed data point, another obviously flawed data point w/o context, and made an obviously stupid statement concerning random and arbitrary geographic boundaries that are somewhere between largely irrelevant and completely irrelevant.

The attendance and TV ratings speak for themselves. You can pretend about the other stuff but at the end of the day the TV ratings and attendance indicate fan support better than anything else. In a state with 20 M people Cuse pulls about 34k fans for FB games and is rarely on national TV. Hardly the #1 school in the state. But pretend all you want. The numbers are quite clear for those of us who can read.

Glad we got that straight.

(01-28-2017 11:19 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 10:53 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:55 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:16 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:31 AM)p23570 Wrote:  That's about what I expected. What you suggested does nothing for the ACCN. Nothing to improve viewer numbers.

So what would you suggest to strengthen the ACCN launch and increase viewer numbers in the footprint of places where the ACCN needs help like NY, Mass, Penn?

TIA. I look forward to your long and detailed answer.

The question is extremely simple. I don't need a long answer.

Your theory is that interesting matchups don't lead to more viewers? My theory is that your wrong.

Your theory is that teams that are consistently bowl eligible don't get better ratings than teams that aren't? Once again, my theory is that you are wrong.

Also, harping on random and arbitrary geographic boundaries is stupid. The ACC should concentrate on fans.

And once again yo give an answer that does not strengthen the ACCN for it's launch nor does it increase viewers in the footprint.

The suggestion I made would cost nothing and add millions of viewers in the footprint by adding BYU content to the ACCN. Just think about all the mormons in NY, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh, etc...

Heck there are probably more BYU fans in NY than there are Syracuse fans. I know BYU had a good crowd at the WVU game in DC this year.

It's not much fun to debate with someone that always lose, never uses facts, and is clearly biased and thinking with your heart and not your brain. But I do admire yoru ability to bounce back after getting proven wrong over and over and over. You are like the energizer bunny.

So please tell us again how fantastic Cuse and its' fanbase is. How they control NY with the largest fanbase who ESPN won't even put on TV and has g-5 attendnace in the low 30's.

I don't think that you understand how basic economics works. Additionally, you clearly don't understand the collegiate sports landscape.

I suggest you either give up before I make you look dumber than you already look, or you do even a basic amount of research (i.e. actually get facts rather than just blindly claiming that you have them) and rethink the logical validity of your position.

Your suggestion of airing less interesting matchups wouldn't be free. It would cost the ACC millions in lost TV, ticket sales, and concessions revenue. That's why the conference hasn't done it, and that's why there is zero talk of the conference ever doing it.

Footprints are irrelevant. What matters is supply and demand. A large number of viewers have to want the content, and they have to be willing to pay for it - either directly or indirectly. If BYU was a one size fits all, ACC schools would independently schedule BYU every year on their own - it's not like it's hard to get H&H's w/ BYU. They're independent, so they have a big schedule to fill, and they lack the cache of teams like ND.

The only person embarrassing himself here is you. At this point you have fallen below David ST levels, but please keep digging.

Adding BYU content to the ACCN wouldn't cost ESPN or the ACC a dime. But it would greatly expand the number of viewers in the footprint. BYU would bring more fans than the average OOC ACC game in any sport so it would likely INCREASE ticket sales and concession for those games. Once again you are out of touch with reality.

But thanks for proving my point for me that there are lots of Mormons in each state within the footprint.
Florida 150k
South Carolina 40k
North Carolina 83k
Virginia 94k
Pennsylvania 51k
Indiana 44k
NY 81k
Kentucky 34k
Massachusetts 27k
So there are over 600k members and that's not getting into fans of BYU.




Having regular BYU content on the ACCN is best done with a scheduling agreement. I have no idea why you can't see what is so obvious to everyone else but so be it. You are mildly challenged from what I can tell so I won't resort to the typical insults. I prefer to let the posts speak for themselves.

I have provided actual TV ratings and attendance numbers to demonstrate the poor fan numbers for Syracuse and all you have come up with is the number of Mormons in 3 States, completely leaving out the rest of the footprint, or the fact that there are BYU Fans who might not be members of the church much like Notre Dame.

Your entire argument has been a fail. YOu do the same thing over and over. You try to start a fight and end up looking like a complete idiot while you pretend you are somehow winning even though your points are never backed up with facts and every time I bring up facts is completely contradicts your statements. Keep up the fine work and thanks for the entertainment.

What are you talking about? I never gave any Mormon populations from any states. I'm the guy who said that arbitrary grographic distinctions don't matter (see TV values for PSU, Alabama, Auburn, OU, Nebraska, etc. vs. NW, RU, Vandy, Rice, etc. as evidence).

And I showed you why your reliance on singular data points is flawed, while providing a number of other, more meaningful data points that you're randomly ignoring.

So for the second time, specifically, which of my statements do you want me to back up?

Btw, your comp is flawed. The real question is whether or not BYU would be better than the team that the ACC schools would drop from their schedule. The answer to that question is obviously not. Otherwise, the ACC schools would drop those teams for BYU.

Lastly, taking shots at innocent people (DavidSt) is uncalled for, and it shows your immaturity and lack of character. You're arguing w/ me, not him. If you're too emotional to conduct yourself like rational grownup, at least have the decency to lash out at me.

(01-28-2017 11:26 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 10:44 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:50 AM)p23570 Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 09:09 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(01-28-2017 12:29 AM)p23570 Wrote:  About 33 - 34k fans per home football game to be exact. LOL. Don't you hate it when facts don't line up with your claims.

Give me a break on the fanbase stuff. Cuse is not going to carry NY for the ACCN. Notre Dame will be carrying the water for Cuse and BC becasue both have terrible fan support aside from cuse BB.

It's a private school in a state that's losing population, and its in the 5th biggest city in the state. The alumni/fan base is less concentrated than most schools, especially public schools. Also, SU AD reports cheeks in the seats, not tickets sold. Most schools report tickets sold. I think that UK even includes the press, players, and coaching staff (no joke). So you're not really comparing apples to apples.

But if you want to talk about fan support, Syracuse is routinely ranked #1 in 2 of its big 3 sports. Find another school that can say that.

Additionally, SU merch sales are usually in the high 20's to low 30's, despite a mediocre to bad FB product for the last 15 years.

And lastly, SU AD revenue compared favorably to most P5 schools, despite a weak to mediocre football product for the last 15 years and close to 0 local big corporate sponsors. That favorable comparison only increases when you take conference distributions out of the mix. And yes, SU AD rev > SU AD expenses by about $10 MM in the most recent DoE release.

But hey, you usually don't let facts and the truth get in the way of your laughably stupid narrative, so carry on.

Once again you provided nothing to support your assertion but ridiculous claims and zero facts. Attendance and TV ratings confirm Cuse football does not carry anything in NY.

Week 1,
not on national TV
Week 2
— 1.730M Louisville
Syracuse ACC 7:55 PM ESPN2
Week 3
not on national TV
Week 4
Not on national TV
Week 5
1.4 2.104M Notre Dame
Syracuse Ind.
ACC 12:00 PM ESPN
Week 6
Not on national TV
Week 7
— 295K Va. Tech
Syracuse ACC 3:39 PM ESPNU
Week 8
Not in national TV
Week 9
Not on national TV
Week 10
Not on national TV
Week 11
Not on national TV
Week 12
Not on national TV
Week 13
Not on national TV
Week 14
Not on national TV


So what we have learned so far with FACTS
Syracuse draws about 33k fans for home games. Syracuse is hardly ever on national TV and when they are it's usually due to playing a highly ranked team and little to do with the fans who watch Syracuse on TV. There is nothing here to suggest a large fan base nor is there any reason to believe they carry NY in any way shape or form. The reality is half a dozen B1G school are more popular in NY, as is ND.

You are making this way too easy. LOL.

Do you don't think Syracuse is private? And you don't think that it's in NY, a state that's losing population? And you don't think that Syracuse is about the 5th largest city in the state? And you don't think that SU counts cheeks in the seats vs tickets sold? And you don't think that schools commonly count tickets sold? And you don't think that SU regularly leads the nation in attendance in 2/3 biggest sports on campus? And you don't think that SU AD revenue stacks up well against other P5 schools, especially once conference distributions are taken out?and you don't think that SU AD ran about $10 MM in the black as per the last DoE Equity in Athletics disclosure? And you don't think that SU merch sales regularity rank in the high 20's to low 30's?

Which one of those facts do you deny?

And so far you've presented one obviously flawed data point, another obviously flawed data point w/o context, and made an obviously stupid statement concerning random and arbitrary geographic boundaries that are somewhere between largely irrelevant and completely irrelevant.

The attendance and TV ratings speak for themselves. You can pretend about the other stuff but at the end of the day the TV ratings and attendance indicate fan support better than anything else. In a state with 20 M people Cuse pulls about 34k fans for FB games and is rarely on national TV. Hardly the #1 school in the state. But pretend all you want. The numbers are quite clear for those of us who can read.

Glad we got that straight.

Once again, what are you talking about? You're just randomly babbling.

(01-22-2017 01:00 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  You seem to have a theory that the B1G is the best conference, and that most P5 schools want to be in it.

Rest assured, the appearance you think you've observed is incorrect.

(01-22-2017 01:00 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  The B1G is the richest conference ... And it's the best conference for most of the schools in it.

That is correct, including for Maryland. Only current Big Ten school that has no business in this great conference is Nebraska.

I'm not sure if the idea that Nebraska can "wake up" in a similar manner and to a similar state that Alabama has become is more laughable or more pathetic. That proposition is the sole reason the school is in the conference, and it hasn't so much as come close to making good on that supposed potential. Nor will it ever, I believe.

(01-22-2017 01:41 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  The value of athletic conference membership to academic research endeavors, particularly in health science research endeavors, which I have been intimately familiar with, really is not open to opinion.

But that's not what I said. And you know the difference, too. But it is a good attempt to misframe what was said, in the way that internet discussions do.

What I said actually, trying to match the framing you've put up, was: "schools that have built themselves up into top research universities, want to associate with other schools that have built themselves up into top research universities. And so, in some conferences (Big Ten, PAC, somewhat ACC), it is desirable for members to have similar peer level of research prowess ... not because such association further enhances the ability of those members to continuing building themselves up, but rather just to be in like company".

(01-22-2017 01:41 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  But even opinion-wise regarding athletics in these conferences, right now what actually supporting the idea that the B10 is currently a better athletic conference

Well we were talking about football. But here is an easy one: Big Ten's top 4 teams would've gone 3-1 against ACC teams. I do believe Clemson would've beat our true #1 team Penn St, but it would've been a much closer game. And if your true #2 Florida St hadn't gotten lucky to be matched up with our true #4 Michigan, it wouldn't have won.

Meanwhile, Northwestern beats Pitt in the bowl game ...

(01-22-2017 03:33 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The initial staff for Clemson College came primarily from Auburn, primarily because if a South Carolinian wanted a decent science or agricultural education it was the closest place since the elites who ran South Carolina College thought it was beneath them and only put a token effort into providing such to maintain their Morrill Acts funding.

As for the colors and uniforms, Walter Riggs was on Auburn's first football team and an Auburn graduate. When he started the football team at Clemson he was able to get some old uniforms from Auburn to use. The navy blue had faded to a purplish color so that's why we are orange and purple instead of orange and blue. Riggs went on to become Clemson's president. Riggs Hall and Riggs Field are named in his honor.

Cool history, thank you for sharing.