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WAC expansion announcement imminent?
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #221
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
(01-13-2017 04:45 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 04:23 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 04:11 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  With CBU being added, I think this puts to rest any talk of WAC football at either level being resurrected.

You and MplsBison are two peas in a pod.

CBU will be in a position to which wit GCU, UVU, Bake and Seattle to the Big Sky, in return for football teams.

CBU would make for an easy travel partner with UCR, and they have men's volleyball too. Or CBU could pair up with USD...
With CBU, GCU and Bake, the WAC can really add beach volleyball. UCR will be in the new Big West men's volleyball.
(This post was last modified: 01-13-2017 05:53 PM by NoDak.)
01-13-2017 04:51 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #222
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
(01-13-2017 11:02 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(01-13-2017 10:52 AM)NoDak Wrote:  you reject logic because you don't agree with its end result.

Describes you to a T.

Logic says that if the WAC gave an invitation to UND, and then UND suddenly declared "we're FBS now, because WAC used to be FBS and there's this rules that says so", the NCAA would laugh at you.
You are confusing the NCAA with a logic based institution.

It is a rule based institution.

Logic says the continuity rule should be about having played together for a certain number of years, but, to avoid the continuity rule killing the WAC, they dropped the language that made it about previous years, and magically "shall establish continuity" became something a conference could do starting from the present into the future.

You are also engaging in a straw man fallacy argument, given that your characterization of what is claimed is quite clearly not the process previously described ... that is, a school turning around after joining the WAC and saying "we are FBS now!" is nothing like the process described above.

The invitation and the declaration by the school that they are transitioning would be by May of a year and the transition would start. So that transition would have to include a declared plan for how all Div I FBS requirements are met.

So if there is no plan for how they will meet the 60% FBS games requirement and the 5 FBS home games requirement starting in year two, the application could indeed be knocked back as not satisfying the NCAA rules.

That is why a "critical mass" of schools are required to get things going ... and why the WAC exception to the FBS invitation rule is not an open door to single schools becoming FBS independents.

So all it would really take to close the door would be to amend the FBS home game counter rule to say only one transitioning FBS school home game can count, and the WAC loophole would be closed, and it would instead become a break glass in case of emergency system for rescuing a small group of Go5 schools stranded by some future wave of realignment.
01-13-2017 06:51 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #223
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
Or as I outlined earlier, it would take some extraordinary co-operation from the rest of FBS with regards to scheduling during the second transition year. You could have six schools transition at once, but they couldn't play any FCS opponents other than themselves - because by rule, transitioning schools do not count as FBS opponents for other transitioning schools.

Idaho moving down is probably the mortal wound to an FBS comeback, as they and New Mexico State would be 2 of the 7 FBS opponents the transitioning schools need in the second year. After that finding 5 FBS opponents primarily at the beginning of the season is much more manageable.
01-13-2017 08:31 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #224
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
I think we have way too many non-football schools in D1. We have several schools with football that are interested in joining, but they can't get a spot because of too many conferences with mainly basketball first schools blocking the way. I would have waited to get Azusa Pacific, and grab West Texas A&M first to try and get a waiver for them since they used to be a D1 school in the modern times. Cal. State-LA is another one that used to be D1 until 1975.
01-13-2017 08:42 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #225
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
(01-13-2017 08:31 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Or as I outlined earlier, it would take some extraordinary co-operation from the rest of FBS with regards to scheduling during the second transition year.
Which rule is that? I don't see it in the reclassification section, and the FBS scheduling requirements section only says:
Quote: 20.9.9.2.2.1 Reclassifying Opponents. [FBS] A reclassifying institution shall be counted as a Football Bowl Subdivision opponent in the year the reclassifying institution must meet the Football Bowl Subdivision scheduling requirements (year two of the reclassifying process). (Adopted: 4/15/97, Revised: 3/10/04, 12/15/06)
According to the change history, that is the version adopted on 15th December 2006.

Unless it was amended recently, that is ... I thought that is what I saw the other day in the Fall 2017 Div 1 manual, but the NCAA Division Manuals site is down for maintenance right now, and the only copy I see on this computer is the Fall 2015 version.
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2017 01:57 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-14-2017 01:56 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #226
RE: WAC expansion announcement imminent?
(01-13-2017 04:45 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  CBU would make for an easy travel partner with UCR, and they have men's volleyball too.

Hawaii notwithstanding, I wonder how much reluctance the all UC/CSU conference would have about adding a private religious California university??

(01-13-2017 04:45 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Or CBU could pair up with USD...

Don't think the Jesuit Catholics would want anything to do with a Baptist school?


(01-13-2017 06:51 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  all it would really take to close the door would be to amend the FBS home game counter rule to say only one transitioning FBS school home game can count, and the WAC loophole would be closed, and it would instead become a break glass in case of emergency system for rescuing a small group of Go5 schools stranded by some future wave of realignment.

Not sure I see how the latter part of your proposal would benefit anyone.

Say most Sun Belt teams left to form a new conference with a few CUSA teams, leaving six Sun Belt schools. Why would those schools be helped by a rule saying that a conference that used to be FBS can invite FCS teams up to FBS??

They could just do it themselves, as they're still an FBS conference. It doesn't instantaneously go away. The WAC FBS has been dead for years, that's quite a difference.
(This post was last modified: 01-15-2017 11:07 AM by MplsBison.)
01-15-2017 11:06 AM
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