The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(01-04-2017 12:44 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 12:10 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 11:48 AM)djnva Wrote:  As far as local talk, the Admirals aren't going to move the needle at all at this point in time. And I enjoy watching the Tides, but I don't know that AAA baseball really generates a lot of talk.

Let's be careful what we wish for. I'm guessing we'll get some interim folks hosting for now, but I hope they can find someone at least willing to give this a go.

Both valid points. Based on what I've read, I wouldn't be shocked if the Admirals moved and that was the end of minor-league hockey in Hampton Roads (and the rest of Virginia for that matter). And while people like going to Tides games, it's almost like a backdrop for their night out and not something that, outside of Orioles fanatics, will result in sports bar discussions about players and personnel moves. Obviously they're both local teams and should be represented on a local sports-talk show, but I'm guessing there won't be a lot of interest in either, unless one of them goes on a hot streak or an A-list player does a rehab stint.

I don't follow hockey at all so I don't know the dynamics of the minor leagues. However, minor league baseball is a weird sport because the MiL managers and coaches are there for development and its doesn't matter if they win or lose the games. So its hard to get people fired up about a team where winning really isn't the primary objective of the team.

And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks and megafans of the parent club, rarely engage with the team itself outside of the 50,000-foot view. They're cheering for the name on the front of the jersey, but I'd be willing to wager that a large number of fans don't care that much about the names on the back.

Hockey has evolved into a baseball-style minor-league system, and on top of those issues, the Admirals were stuck with an absentee owner some 2,000 miles away that couldn't divest of them fast enough and almost certainly will pull their affiliation at the first available opportunity. The ECHL they're in now bears little resemblance to the ECHL of the Hampton Roads Admirals' glory days — for starters, while they had a player agreement with the Capitals, player development for the next level was their only reason to exist, and the team was built for success at that level (and if an Olaf Kolzig or Patrick Lalime came out of it, hey, so much the better). Plus they had red-hot rivalries with a bunch of regional teams, and a blue-hot one with the Richmond Renegades. Now the Admirals are playing AA-level hockey with no natural rivals and for a parent club that tolerates their existence at best. It's a sad state of affairs, but when you consider that hockey in the Mid-Atlantic has eroded greatly in the past 20 years (only one minor-league team in Virginia, only two in North Carolina, and the Carolina Hurricanes are constantly subject to relocation chatter), maybe it's an inevitable close to this particular chapter of Hampton Roads sports.

(01-04-2017 02:07 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 12:24 PM)MonarchCAM Wrote:  This is a really tough market for sports talk. Everything just said is why people here (maybe the majority of people here) would turn and run from an all-local show. Cattles tried to go the other way, but nobody likes that either because it was the same national show they'd heard and seen all day...only with less than half the resources and experience. It's a tough balancing act, this market is so diverse. It's impossible to please everybody, you have to pick and choose.

...Also, interviews with the opposing coaches have been part of every pre-game broadcast in basketball and football.

I have no way of knowing this, but I suspect that they were willing to allow Cattles to go mostly major sports with his show was to give people who liked listening to national shows but could never get on the air. A local version of a national show allows Dave from Chesapeake and Pete from Poquoson a chance to ask someone their Redskins or Alabama question.

Richmond seems to have a lot more success with their local sports-talk shows, but it's also a far more stable market; Tidewater is always going to have a large transient population because of the military, and they're probably not going to develop deep ties to local sports in the time that they're here.

That's exactly why this market is so tricky.

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Hockey has evolved into a baseball-style minor-league system, and on top of those issues, the Admirals were stuck with an absentee owner some 2,000 miles away that couldn't divest of them fast enough and almost certainly will pull their affiliation at the first available opportunity. The ECHL they're in now bears little resemblance to the ECHL of the Hampton Roads Admirals' glory days — for starters, while they had a player agreement with the Capitals, player development for the next level was their only reason to exist, and the team was built for success at that level (and if an Olaf Kolzig or Patrick Lalime came out of it, hey, so much the better). Plus they had red-hot rivalries with a bunch of regional teams, and a blue-hot one with the Richmond Renegades. Now the Admirals are playing AA-level hockey with no natural rivals and for a parent club that tolerates their existence at best. It's a sad state of affairs, but when you consider that hockey in the Mid-Atlantic has eroded greatly in the past 20 years (only one minor-league team in Virginia, only two in North Carolina, and the Carolina Hurricanes are constantly subject to relocation chatter), maybe it's an inevitable close to this particular chapter of Hampton Roads sports.

The Ads may be better off next year when Edmonton rolls out of town and a new parent club comes in and the new owners having a full offseason to do things. The biggest error they made after the forced drop to the ECHL was not adjusting ticket prices to reflect the lower quality of play. My family had season tickets from 1990/90-2014/15. We dropped them after the move down to the ECHL due to the high ticket cost. My season tickets would have dropped $50. That reflected the reduced number of games at Scope rather than the drop in quality of play. The Ads are quick to beat their chests about how their ticket prices are in the lower third of the ECHL. While this is correct it is ludicrous to expect people to pay the same for ECHL hockey that they were paying for AHL hockey. Hampton Roads can be a successful hockey market if marketed properly. Sadly, it has not been marketed properly here in a while.

Truthfully, I prefer the local national radio show. I'm a fan of non-local teams, so being able to call in and discuss topics relating to the Steelers or Mets is pretty neat. And if it wasn't popular, that format wouldn't have lasted for nearly five years.

As an ODU fan, I'd like to see more in-house podcasts per sport. For football, I could listen to Andy Mashaw all day. Same with Dave Twardzik on the basketball side. Those types of people who will be most knowledgable and can provide the best content for our small, specific market.

(01-04-2017 04:00 PM)Monarch Maniac 10 Wrote:  Truthfully, I prefer the local national radio show. I'm a fan of non-local teams, so being able to call in and discuss topics relating to the Steelers or Mets is pretty neat. And if it wasn't popular, that format wouldn't have lasted for nearly five years.

As an ODU fan, I'd like to see more in-house podcasts per sport. For football, I could listen to Andy Mashaw all day. Same with Dave Twardzik on the basketball side. Those types of people who will be most knowledgable and can provide the best content for our small, specific market.

100% agree. I will never tune in if I hear Tides and Admirals talk. They are bad enough to watch, but to have to listen to as well? No thank you.

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks

Easy on the insults, bro.

(01-05-2017 10:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks

Easy on the insults, bro.

Is that one of those things where only stat geeks can call stat geeks stat geeks? It's OK, I have a good posts above replacement number.

(01-05-2017 10:24 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks

Easy on the insults, bro.

Is that one of those things where only stat geeks can call stat geeks stat geeks? It's OK, I have a good posts above replacement number.

(01-05-2017 10:59 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:24 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks

Easy on the insults, bro.

Is that one of those things where only stat geeks can call stat geeks stat geeks? It's OK, I have a good posts above replacement number.

The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

(01-04-2017 03:21 PM)ODU2K1 Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Hockey has evolved into a baseball-style minor-league system, and on top of those issues, the Admirals were stuck with an absentee owner some 2,000 miles away that couldn't divest of them fast enough and almost certainly will pull their affiliation at the first available opportunity. The ECHL they're in now bears little resemblance to the ECHL of the Hampton Roads Admirals' glory days — for starters, while they had a player agreement with the Capitals, player development for the next level was their only reason to exist, and the team was built for success at that level (and if an Olaf Kolzig or Patrick Lalime came out of it, hey, so much the better). Plus they had red-hot rivalries with a bunch of regional teams, and a blue-hot one with the Richmond Renegades. Now the Admirals are playing AA-level hockey with no natural rivals and for a parent club that tolerates their existence at best. It's a sad state of affairs, but when you consider that hockey in the Mid-Atlantic has eroded greatly in the past 20 years (only one minor-league team in Virginia, only two in North Carolina, and the Carolina Hurricanes are constantly subject to relocation chatter), maybe it's an inevitable close to this particular chapter of Hampton Roads sports.

The Ads may be better off next year when Edmonton rolls out of town and a new parent club comes in and the new owners having a full offseason to do things. The biggest error they made after the forced drop to the ECHL was not adjusting ticket prices to reflect the lower quality of play. My family had season tickets from 1990/90-2014/15. We dropped them after the move down to the ECHL due to the high ticket cost. My season tickets would have dropped $50. That reflected the reduced number of games at Scope rather than the drop in quality of play. The Ads are quick to beat their chests about how their ticket prices are in the lower third of the ECHL. While this is correct it is ludicrous to expect people to pay the same for ECHL hockey that they were paying for AHL hockey. Hampton Roads can be a successful hockey market if marketed properly. Sadly, it has not been marketed properly here in a while.

Hockey in the 90s was lightning in a bottle—the sport was quickly gaining in mainstream acceptance outside of its traditional markets, and it had been years since anyone tried to put a team in Virginia. Plus the play was a lot rougher, more fights, more acrimony—which compelled fans to stick around once the new sport smell wore off. The addition of nearby teams and the development of ugly rivalries, obviously including Richmond but also Roanoke, Greensboro and even Wheeling, helped that along.

Moving up to AHL was a blessing and a curse—it was clearly a level up in competition but at the expense of those teams that Admirals fans loved to hate. And while the play was better, it was also cleaner, so it wasn't as engaging as the more violent ECHL, and that combined with the higher prices probably drove those fans away. But if they didn't move up, the ECHL would have still decomposed around it; staying wouldn't have ensured Richmond or Roanoke's existence.

Now they're effectively forced into an ECHL that ends up being the worst of both worlds: still no rivals, but a lower level of play that nonetheless isn't quite the same as 90s ECHL. The AHL wasn't perfect for the Admirals, but it'd still be better than what we've got now.

(Hmmm ... it almost seems like this lesson could apply to another sports entity in the area ...)

I hope you're right in that the new owner and an affiliation with a more engaged parent club will help, but they're going to have a long road ahead. They're fighting a battle on two fronts: hurt feelings and mistrust among the current and former fans, apathy among everyone else. Marketing has its work cut out for it.

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:59 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:24 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 10:14 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-04-2017 02:22 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  And MiLB baseball fans, outside of stat geeks

Easy on the insults, bro.

Is that one of those things where only stat geeks can call stat geeks stat geeks? It's OK, I have a good posts above replacement number.

The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

(01-05-2017 12:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

This is the recent trend in the past few years, wasn't as prevalent before. The thought process is most of AAA is retreads/guys trying to hang on.

If a prospect does well in AA and there is a spot open with the big club, they usually just skip AAA or spend a short time there. If there isnt a spot open, often you will see the prospect go to AAA.

The Orioles have done a terrible job with making the Tides interesting to watch, imo. Not that I blame them, but they just haven't had many guys that make me want to go out an watch often.

(01-05-2017 12:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

This is the recent trend in the past few years, wasn't as prevalent before. The thought process is most of AAA is retreads/guys trying to hang on.

If a prospect does well in AA and there is a spot open with the big club, they usually just skip AAA or spend a short time there. If there isnt a spot open, often you will see the prospect go to AAA.

The Orioles have done a terrible job with making the Tides interesting to watch, imo. Not that I blame them, but they just haven't had many guys that make me want to go out an watch often.

Probably doesn't help that while Norfolk is close to Baltimore, Bowie is even closer.

It appears as though the Tides have an identity problem of late, going from the traditional Tides look we all knew to some weird hybrid of Tides and Orioles colors to the toothpasted-hues abomination unto the Lord that we suffer today.

It's been a few years since I've been to Harbor Park; how is it holding up? I ask because it seems like there's been an arms race with IL stadiums in the past few years. Or maybe it's just seeing how drop-dead gorgeous the Charlotte stadium is.

Harbor Park is still an awesome AAA stadium and it is in good shape for its age. They have done things to help....craft beers, patio, etc. But, I bet the large majority of the audience just goes for the experience/something to do.

(01-05-2017 12:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

This is the recent trend in the past few years, wasn't as prevalent before. The thought process is most of AAA is retreads/guys trying to hang on.

If a prospect does well in AA and there is a spot open with the big club, they usually just skip AAA or spend a short time there. If there isnt a spot open, often you will see the prospect go to AAA.

The Orioles have done a terrible job with making the Tides interesting to watch, imo. Not that I blame them, but they just haven't had many guys that make me want to go out an watch often.

If you are an Orioles fan I recommend getting out and watching Chance Sisco this year. The catcher of the future.

(01-05-2017 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:33 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

This is the recent trend in the past few years, wasn't as prevalent before. The thought process is most of AAA is retreads/guys trying to hang on.

If a prospect does well in AA and there is a spot open with the big club, they usually just skip AAA or spend a short time there. If there isnt a spot open, often you will see the prospect go to AAA.

The Orioles have done a terrible job with making the Tides interesting to watch, imo. Not that I blame them, but they just haven't had many guys that make me want to go out an watch often.

Probably doesn't help that while Norfolk is close to Baltimore, Bowie is even closer.

It appears as though the Tides have an identity problem of late, going from the traditional Tides look we all knew to some weird hybrid of Tides and Orioles colors to the toothpasted-hues abomination unto the Lord that we suffer today.

It's been a few years since I've been to Harbor Park; how is it holding up? I ask because it seems like there's been an arms race with IL stadiums in the past few years. Or maybe it's just seeing how drop-dead gorgeous the Charlotte stadium is.

That is the main reason. Short bus trip to Bowie and back. Some guys are apart of the "taxi squad" in which they come pitch for a day and then back to Bowie. Depends on the player options.

The Nick Bailey(?) show on AM850 in the morning is actually pretty good. He has another guy with him and they talk ODU, local, regional and national sports. I think they might only be on from 7-9.

(01-05-2017 12:30 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:14 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(01-05-2017 12:08 PM)757ODU Wrote:  The people that don't care for MILB are the people that don't have a great understanding about baseball.

I have a better than most understanding of baseball, but I can't do AAA Baseball. I enjoy AA and lower, but AAA bores me to tears.

I've been told by at least a couple of hardcore baseball fans that AA is more enjoyable because that's where you're more likely to see the hot prospects, whereas AAA has more journeymen and fringe guys bouncing between AAA and the Show. I guess that depends on the parent club and how it handles its farm teams; I remember in the final days of the Richmond Braves that Atlanta was more likely to pay attention to and move players from the AA team in Mississippi, and I want to say the Astros had a similar deal when their AA was in Round Rock and their AAA was in Edmonton?

Here in Richmond we lost our long time AAA team (Richmond Braves) a few years ago. It was replaced by the Eastern league AA Flying Squirrels.
I am not sure about any better quality on the field, but the enthusiasm of the players is noticeably better; as is the organization's interaction with the community.

I am by no means a "hardcore" fan, but I (and my family) very much enjoy taking in many games over the course of a season, much more than we did with the AAA team.
Interestingly, the 2016 home attendance per game of the Richmond AA team was actually better than that of the AAA Norfolk Tide in a substantially smaller (Richmond) population center.


Shameless plug:
The ODUAA Richmond Chapter sponsors a sell out Flying Squirrels baseball game event every year

(01-05-2017 07:34 PM)ODU Hoops Wrote:  The Nick Bailey(?) show on AM850 in the morning is actually pretty good. He has another guy with him and they talk ODU, local, regional and national sports. I think they might only be on from 7-9.

Agreed