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Crooked Donald and Company
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-03-2017 04:55 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-03-2017 03:16 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Everything in the addendum is about Trump, who is not yet in the swamp and has not been a part of the swamp. In my mind, the swamp is Congress and the Washington establishment around them- lobbyists, regulators, bureaucrats.

Because 1) Trump will be president in a few weeks and 2) he and his family have already used his status as president elect to enrich themselves, and 3) he is as much a con-man and grifter as a "businessman" so it should not surprise anyone that he sees this as his best racket yet.

So yes, you are correct, he is not the only source of corruption, but I think we are about to see the most corrupt administration since Harding, possibly since the 19th century.


that's not what I said. Said Donald is new to,the swamp, but the swamp has been there for decades, yet your list is entirely on the new guy, none of the old ones.

drain the swamp is not new rhetoric, we heard it from nancy Pelosi when she came in and promised the most ethical and transparent Congress in history. how did that work out?


Give me more details on 2).
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2017 05:55 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-03-2017 05:45 PM
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Baconator Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-03-2017 04:17 PM)WestGrayStreetOwl Wrote:  
(01-03-2017 12:46 PM)Baconator Wrote:  Jim Bridenstine, Lovett '98, in line to be the next head of NASA.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-rep-jim-...1483213187
Former Rice swimmer, right?

Correct.
01-04-2017 12:20 AM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-03-2017 05:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Give me more details on 2).


Just going off the top of my head and posting first reasonable news source google finds:

(Keeping in mind as background, this is a guy who just paid $25 million in damages in a fraud case and has repeatedly stiffed contractors on many projects.)

There's the Ivanka bracelet scheme:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivanka-trump...interview/

The Coffee with Ivanka for sale and the Trump brothers auction access to the inauguration schemes:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-milli...2016-12-20
http://time.com/4607439/donald-trump-ina...fit-texas/


The lobby the British government to move a windfarm that obstructs views from his golf course gambit:

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environ...government
(This one is sort of funny in that apparently Trump thinks Nigel Farage is part of the British Government)


The call the Argentine PM as president-elect and trying and get a building permit for your project in Buenos Aries scheme:

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/307143-...with-trump


The Ivanka, who has business in Japan, inappropriately sitting in on meeting with Japanese PM fiasco:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/05/news/don...hing-deal/

(Many career diplomats are appalled at Trump's disregard for diplomatic conventions, and particularly his habit of including family members, saying it makes us look like a 'Banana republic'. But that's not strictly speaking 'corruption'. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/tr...ent-232191)


And last but not least, the pressure foreign governments to use your hotels scheme:
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/trump-or...el-report/

Again, this is just the stuff I recall off the top of my head from the last two months or so.
01-04-2017 11:18 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 11:18 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-03-2017 05:45 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Give me more details on 2).


Just going off the top of my head and posting first reasonable news source google finds:

(Keeping in mind as background, this is a guy who just paid $25 million in damages in a fraud case and has repeatedly stiffed contractors on many projects.)

There's the Ivanka bracelet scheme:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ivanka-trump...interview/

The Coffee with Ivanka for sale and the Trump brothers auction access to the inauguration schemes:
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1-milli...2016-12-20
http://time.com/4607439/donald-trump-ina...fit-texas/


The lobby the British government to move a windfarm that obstructs views from his golf course gambit:

http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environ...government
(This one is sort of funny in that apparently Trump thinks Nigel Farage is part of the British Government)


The call the Argentine PM as president-elect and trying and get a building permit for your project in Buenos Aries scheme:

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/307143-...with-trump


The Ivanka, who has business in Japan, inappropriately sitting in on meeting with Japanese PM fiasco:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/05/news/don...hing-deal/

(Many career diplomats are appalled at Trump's disregard for diplomatic conventions, and particularly his habit of including family members, saying it makes us look like a 'Banana republic'. But that's not strictly speaking 'corruption'. http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/tr...ent-232191)


And last but not least, the pressure foreign governments to use your hotels scheme:
http://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/trump-or...el-report/

Again, this is just the stuff I recall off the top of my head from the last two months or so.

Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.
01-04-2017 11:44 AM
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Post: #25
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
01-04-2017 12:05 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.
01-04-2017 12:46 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.
01-04-2017 01:15 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.
01-04-2017 04:59 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.
01-04-2017 05:27 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

I didn't bring up a quid pro quo, nor accuse Trump of bullying people into staying at his hotels. I pointed out the stickiness of the situation. Do you not think there exists a great potential for financial conflicts of interest?

Quote:In interviews with a dozen diplomats, many of whom declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak about anything related to the next U.S. president, some said spending money at Trump’s hotel is an easy, friendly gesture to the new president.
“Why wouldn’t I stay at his hotel blocks from the White House, so I can tell the new president, ‘I love your new hotel!’ Isn’t it rude to come to his city and say, ‘I am staying at your competitor?’” one Asian diplomat tells the Washington Post.


Source

Heck, Jimmy Carter thought there might exist one for his peanut farm, so he sold it. As I quote Mr. Trump:

Quote:But for now, the D.C. business is good, something Trump told the New York Times last month, saying the hotel “will be probably a more valuable asset now than it was before, okay? The brand is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.”

Source

To me, those two quotes exemplify the sticky situation Trump is in, due to his massive business dealings and holdings. As such, I think he needs to be very careful and open about his financial and managerial situation in the Trump organization. Do you disagree?

He also needs to stop talking about real estate deals with foreign leaders.
01-04-2017 05:38 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
The criticism of the Clinton Foundation does not lie with what it did with the money it received. The problem is at least the appearance that political favors were used to coax contributions on a quid pro quo basis. That has nothing to do with whether the foundation itself was or was not aa A charity.
01-04-2017 07:50 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 07:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The criticism of the Clinton Foundation does not lie with what it did with the money it received. The problem is at least the appearance that political favors were used to coax contributions on a quid pro quo basis. That has nothing to do with whether the foundation itself was or was not aa A charity.

And that is why Hillary was moving towards completely removing herself from it. I can't remember, was the same being done with Bill and Chelsea?
01-04-2017 09:50 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 05:38 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

I didn't bring up a quid pro quo, nor accuse Trump of bullying people into staying at his hotels. I pointed out the stickiness of the situation. Do you not think there exists a great potential for financial conflicts of interest?

Quote:In interviews with a dozen diplomats, many of whom declined to be named because they were not authorized to speak about anything related to the next U.S. president, some said spending money at Trump’s hotel is an easy, friendly gesture to the new president.
“Why wouldn’t I stay at his hotel blocks from the White House, so I can tell the new president, ‘I love your new hotel!’ Isn’t it rude to come to his city and say, ‘I am staying at your competitor?’” one Asian diplomat tells the Washington Post.


Source

Heck, Jimmy Carter thought there might exist one for his peanut farm, so he sold it. As I quote Mr. Trump:

Quote:But for now, the D.C. business is good, something Trump told the New York Times last month, saying the hotel “will be probably a more valuable asset now than it was before, okay? The brand is certainly a hotter brand than it was before.”

Source

To me, those two quotes exemplify the sticky situation Trump is in, due to his massive business dealings and holdings. As such, I think he needs to be very careful and open about his financial and managerial situation in the Trump organization. Do you disagree?

He also needs to stop talking about real estate deals with foreign leaders.

He does need to do what he can to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest. Every person in high office should. And i agree, he needs to stop talking real estate with foreign leaders.

But as for corruption, there needs to be a quid pro quo. You do this for me, and I will do that for you. Nothing yet appears to be in that category. Harding was mentioned, so check out Teapot Dome.

If Trump starts granting favors in return for personal gain, I would think all of us would rise up. But let's wait until it happens, OK?
01-04-2017 11:07 PM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

It seems to me that high stakes real-estate is uniquely positioned to produce ethical violations and outright corruption. There's a reason that real-estate developers are probably one of Hollywood's most go-to villains.
01-05-2017 01:28 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-05-2017 01:28 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

It seems to me that high stakes real-estate is uniquely positioned to produce ethical violations and outright corruption. There's a reason that real-estate developers are probably one of Hollywood's most go-to villains.

Third, behind space aliens and mad scientists.

Depending on your definition of high stakes, I've known a few. Run the gamut from "makes me want to wash my hands" to "fine fellow". But none of them were pushovers.
01-05-2017 10:18 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 11:44 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Wow. so bad. At least he is not selling access. I wonder how the donations to the Clinton Global Initiative are holding up?

Ya ever hear what Ted Kennedy had to say about the wind farm off his coast?

I think it safe to say that no matter who won, there was always going to be some level of corruption. The stuff you list seems so penny-ante.

But, as they say, we shall see.

Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

Not a quid pro quo with regards to staying at his hotel, but this doesn't pass the smell test right now. Trump gets investigated, Trump donates to presecuting AG's campaign, Trump investigation dropped, AG gets spot in White House.

Let's see if this holds true: https://www.salon.com/2017/01/05/donald-...ment-from/
01-05-2017 05:30 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-05-2017 05:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 12:46 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Ha, I almost preemptively mentioned the Kennedy's hypocrisy on wind farms. Misses the point though - he's using the presidency to enrich his businesses. That's the reason ethics experts from across the spectrum are telling him to divest. Guiding foreign governments to use his hotels is a direct violation of the emolument clause of the constitution.

Calling the Argentine leader and trying to get his building permit? Complete violation of ethics standards.

Regarding the Clinton Foundation: First, the election's over. Clinton is not going to be president. She does not hold any public office. Trump will be president. It's what he does now that matters, not what you think Clinton may have done.

Second, because it's a pet peeve of mine, the Clinton Foundation was a genuine charity, getting an A from Charity Watch. Literally millions of people around the world get HIV meds because of it who wouldn't otherwise. And without those meds, many would die. Conservatives get mad when they are seen as not caring about non-whites, but their complete disregard for the work of the Clinton Foundation, which has literally saved the lives of millions of black and brown people across the world, is a prime example of why people think that. Anyway, there is still no evidence that people received favors for Clinton Foundation donations, though their refusal to be more meticulous about drawing clear lines is a big part of why she isn't president. Meanwhile, Trump's "charitable" foundation was used to make illegal political donations to politicians who were investigating his scam "University" and to buy giant portraits of himself. But I'm sure this brand new foundation his sons have started is totally legit.

I will grant that Ivanka's hawking her bracelet seems penny-ante. Which begs the question of why? For a family of billionaires they sure seem desperate to make a buck.

people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

Not a quid pro quo with regards to staying at his hotel, but this doesn't pass the smell test right now. Trump gets investigated, Trump donates to presecuting AG's campaign, Trump investigation dropped, AG gets spot in White House.

Let's see if this holds true: https://www.salon.com/2017/01/05/donald-...ment-from/

Let's not forget it was an illegal donation, for which he was fined, from his "charitable" foundation.
01-06-2017 10:03 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-06-2017 10:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 05:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 01:15 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  people renting space in Trump's hotel seems to me to be akin to getting a haircut at Trump's barbershop before an interview. I would certainly do both, but with no expectation of a quid pro quo. If renting a suite guarantees whatever the seeker is seeking, that is corruption. otherwise might as well be wearing his school colors.

Ivanka selling stuff seems pretty penny ante, and not at all what I would expect from her, but then so is flying coach on Jet Blue. Maybe she could not afford better? Maybe Daddy's money is not her money...yet.

All the stuff you mention might increase his wealth .0001%, hardly the sort of thing that corruption is made of. A better way is book sales - how much did Obama make in royalties for being elected?

The similarity there is NO quid pro quo. Windfall gains.

There is a certain amount of financial gain associated with being in a position of power, and no position has more power than POTUS. But you have failed to establish a quid pro quo - what was sold for what price? A Cabinet post for a three night stay?

Selling access for charity might seem more virtuous to you, possibly on the lines on stealing emails to expose the truth. Both are a bad means to a good end, eh?

Be that as it may, it will all come out in the wash. If he is corrupt, it will be known. If not, it will still be rumored. A bit soon for either.

So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

Not a quid pro quo with regards to staying at his hotel, but this doesn't pass the smell test right now. Trump gets investigated, Trump donates to presecuting AG's campaign, Trump investigation dropped, AG gets spot in White House.

Let's see if this holds true: https://www.salon.com/2017/01/05/donald-...ment-from/

Let's not forget it was an illegal donation, for which he was fined, from his "charitable" foundation.

Yeah, there are some things that do not meet the smell test. Kind of like Bill's dropping by Lynch's plane was unplanned and nothing of substance was discussed, no deals made. Yeah, sure. If you believe that, you will believe that Trump will sell influence for a three night stay at his hotel. Oh, wait a minute....

But the word used was corruption, and nothing has been shown to be for sale by Trump. No quid pro quos, either offered or taken. If the Florida AG sold her influence for something, that's on her. But nothing has been shown of Trump selling influence he doesn't yet have for benefits to himself and his family. Not saying it couldn't happen, although I think the odds long. But let's at least wait for some smoke before screaming "fire".
01-06-2017 10:19 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-06-2017 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-06-2017 10:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 05:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 04:59 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  So a foreign leader rolls into town to negotiate a very important trade deal/treaty/etc. Does the president asking him what hotel he stayed at matter? Because come January 20, I bet you that very few leaders visiting the White House choose somewhere outside of the Trump hotel, unless they want to make a point.

has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

Not a quid pro quo with regards to staying at his hotel, but this doesn't pass the smell test right now. Trump gets investigated, Trump donates to presecuting AG's campaign, Trump investigation dropped, AG gets spot in White House.

Let's see if this holds true: https://www.salon.com/2017/01/05/donald-...ment-from/

Let's not forget it was an illegal donation, for which he was fined, from his "charitable" foundation.

Yeah, there are some things that do not meet the smell test. Kind of like Bill's dropping by Lynch's plane was unplanned and nothing of substance was discussed, no deals made. Yeah, sure. If you believe that, you will believe that Trump will sell influence for a three night stay at his hotel. Oh, wait a minute....

But the word used was corruption, and nothing has been shown to be for sale by Trump. No quid pro quos, either offered or taken. If the Florida AG sold her influence for something, that's on her. But nothing has been shown of Trump selling influence he doesn't yet have for benefits to himself and his family. Not saying it couldn't happen, although I think the odds long. But let's at least wait for some smoke before screaming "fire".

Have I screamed fire?

But isn't my example a perfect example of quid pro quo? It appears as if Trump tried to get rid of a lawsuit giving money, and then a position in the White House, to the investigating AD. Before any charges could be filed there would need to be some proof of collusion I assume, but this seems like a kind of quid pro quo, no?
01-06-2017 10:23 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Crooked Donald and Company
(01-06-2017 10:23 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-06-2017 10:19 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(01-06-2017 10:03 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(01-05-2017 05:30 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(01-04-2017 05:27 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  has he been asking this? is it a condition fo be met before negotiating? nes to me. oes he make them fill out a questionaire detailing where they re staying, whose clothing they are wearing, etc?

yeah, if I wanted to build a chicken coop and needed Trump's approval, i would probably stay at his hotel, but unlike you, I would not expect that to get me the approval. No quid pro quo.

you have yet to show evidence of Trump selling favor for money.

Not a quid pro quo with regards to staying at his hotel, but this doesn't pass the smell test right now. Trump gets investigated, Trump donates to presecuting AG's campaign, Trump investigation dropped, AG gets spot in White House.

Let's see if this holds true: https://www.salon.com/2017/01/05/donald-...ment-from/

Let's not forget it was an illegal donation, for which he was fined, from his "charitable" foundation.

Yeah, there are some things that do not meet the smell test. Kind of like Bill's dropping by Lynch's plane was unplanned and nothing of substance was discussed, no deals made. Yeah, sure. If you believe that, you will believe that Trump will sell influence for a three night stay at his hotel. Oh, wait a minute....

But the word used was corruption, and nothing has been shown to be for sale by Trump. No quid pro quos, either offered or taken. If the Florida AG sold her influence for something, that's on her. But nothing has been shown of Trump selling influence he doesn't yet have for benefits to himself and his family. Not saying it couldn't happen, although I think the odds long. But let's at least wait for some smoke before screaming "fire".

Have I screamed fire?

But isn't my example a perfect example of quid pro quo? It appears as if Trump tried to get rid of a lawsuit giving money, and then a position in the White House, to the investigating AD. Before any charges could be filed there would need to be some proof of collusion I assume, but this seems like a kind of quid pro quo, no?

Go back and read the first sentence of post # 1. It was not you that said it, but it is the genesis for the whole thread. Corruption is the fifth word.

If the Florida AG sold influence for cash, she would be the corrupt one. This thread is about Trump selling influence for material gain, which has not been shown, except by innuendo.

If you want to tie her position in the White House to a deal, do so with some facts. But wasn't the lawsuit thing well before he was elected? What is this, a player to be named later? How could he sell a white house position as part of the deal? It's not as if everybody expected him to win.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2017 10:37 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
01-06-2017 10:32 AM
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