Oldyeller
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
The G5 will never be shut out nor relegated to some second tier. By definition the P5 and G5 are the same other than agreeing to the current arrangement. Eliminating 5 conferences would do more harm than good to the lower HALF of the P5. Eking out a few more bucks by squeezing out competition at the bottom may well relegate your P5 team the way of Idaho.
ESPN paychecks can't make up for no butts in seats. Ask Miami.
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12-29-2016 06:44 PM |
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MWC Tex
Heisman
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 06:35 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: (12-29-2016 06:26 PM)MWC Tex Wrote: (12-29-2016 01:29 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote: What the P5 schools needs to be pushing right now is an 8 team playoff that consists of the champions of the P5 conferences, 2 at large schools, and the highest ranked G5 school.
It's not my preferred playoff, but it is doable. There are already a growing number of voices pushing an 8 team playoff. We need to jump on that bandwagon and make sure they save a seat for us.
The playoff isn't expanding. The P5 will become a P4 then every conference champ is in the playoffs. The g5 gets shutout....even though we are shutout already.
The old BCS system was fairer to us than the committee.
I agree. The computer element allowed for the possibility of a Boise State to be ranked in the top 8. I don't think the human element will ever allow that to happen.
8?? Even higher.....TCU was #3 in the BCS rankings.
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12-29-2016 06:47 PM |
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TrueBlueDrew
Heisman
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
Hell I say let the other G5 conferences establish a G5 playoff but keep the SBC out of it and instead give us the P5 bowl tie-ins that the other conferences give up in favor of the playoff. They get what they want and we get what we want.
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12-29-2016 07:06 PM |
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chiefsfan
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 06:44 PM)Oldyeller Wrote: The G5 will never be shut out nor relegated to some second tier. By definition the P5 and G5 are the same other than agreeing to the current arrangement. Eliminating 5 conferences would do more harm than good to the lower HALF of the P5. Eking out a few more bucks by squeezing out competition at the bottom may well relegate your P5 team the way of Idaho.
ESPN paychecks can't make up for no butts in seats. Ask Miami.
I'm not saying complete divisional separation. I think we are headed to a point though where the access bowl is dumped in favor of an 8 team playoff, and the G5 only gets a team into that slot if they are ranked the top 8.
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12-29-2016 07:10 PM |
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ark30inf
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
Anyone who wants to drop back....drop back. We don't want to.
It doesn't matter if the P5 decides to keep every dollar, never allow a G5 into the playoffs, and never play in a bowl....it is better to fight injustice than appease it.
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12-29-2016 07:29 PM |
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ark30inf
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
You can either accept Separate but Equal, or you can continue to point out the hypocrisy and elitism. I much prefer the latter.
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12-29-2016 07:32 PM |
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GnatsRbettrFried
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Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 06:35 PM)chiefsfan Wrote: (12-29-2016 06:26 PM)MWC Tex Wrote: (12-29-2016 01:29 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote: What the P5 schools needs to be pushing right now is an 8 team playoff that consists of the champions of the P5 conferences, 2 at large schools, and the highest ranked G5 school.
It's not my preferred playoff, but it is doable. There are already a growing number of voices pushing an 8 team playoff. We need to jump on that bandwagon and make sure they save a seat for us.
The playoff isn't expanding. The P5 will become a P4 then every conference champ is in the playoffs. The g5 gets shutout....even though we are shutout already.
The old BCS system was fairer to us than the committee.
I agree. The computer element allowed for the possibility of a Boise State to be ranked in the top 8. I don't think the human element will ever allow that to happen.
Are you hinting that a computer has more situational awareness and perhaps common sense than humans?? That's a scary thought. I kid I kid
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12-29-2016 07:36 PM |
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SpeedkingATL
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
No thank you to P5 playoff.
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12-29-2016 07:56 PM |
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sdcritter
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
The only way I'd want to see this happen is if it was a clean break. Completely disassociate from the NCAA and the P5 pukes. Time for a new structure from top to bottom. One that favors regional conferences with good rivalries and butts in seats over TV contracts. One that has a true playoff system that rewards good teams regardless of their location/market/money. Let the P5 and ESPN figure out how to make a season out of only playing each other. And this new structure must embrace online streaming of games. That's the future. People don't want to pay for a cable package just to watch ESPN.
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12-29-2016 08:09 PM |
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arkstfan
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12-29-2016 08:17 PM |
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MWC Tex
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 07:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote: Anyone who wants to drop back....drop back. We don't want to.
I think that is more likely to happen and probably will happen sooner than people think.
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12-29-2016 09:20 PM |
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97App
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 03:35 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote: (12-29-2016 01:53 PM)NewJersey GATA Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:48 AM)97App Wrote: Agree with everyone a playoff solely for the G5 and we may as well start discussing scholarship reductions and "cost-containment" football.
What I would like to see is an agreement among the G5 that the 4 conference champions not chosen for the access bowl slot be paired into two "champions bowls" to highlight the best of what our conferences have to offer. Conference champ vs. Conference champ.
This is a fantastic idea. Personally I would encourage it to be at ONE location every year as well.
Having those 2 games at a particular city 2-3 days apart. Say one game is on a Friday Night and the next is a Monday night preferably between Christmas and NYE.
The marketing for that could bring a lot of publicity to all 4 programs and their conference.
That is an absolutely horrible idea. "I want a playoffs for the non access bowl teams" so that we can have our own playoffs? Might as well then take up the idea of saying screw the P5 and going straight to our own.
And having games go between Friday and then Monday? That's asinine. There's a reason the games we play now are spread out at least 4-5 days apart... Football is a violent game and bodies need time to recover.
If chiefsfan is right, we'll be the new FCS anyway in a few years. Then we can have this conference playoff that you guys are advocating.
we're talking about two separate bowl games between the 4 G5 conference champions not going to the access bowl. not a playoff between all 4
teams.
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12-29-2016 10:07 PM |
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ark30inf
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 09:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote: (12-29-2016 07:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote: Anyone who wants to drop back....drop back. We don't want to.
I think that is more likely to happen and probably will happen sooner than people think.
Again...if the P5 separate then buy games go away and thus they lose home games...which means losing MONEY and fan happiness. Lower tier P5 lose buy games for bowl eligibility. With total separation they also lose the control they have over rules for all of college football. They also run the risk that non-P5 finally decide to cut ties in all sports leaving them with real scheduling and/or travel problems.
With attendance and ratings being soft and the unknowns of cord-cutting and a potential "rights bubble" collapse there are risks to separating from the flock.
Being with the flock also provides cover for the "student-athlete model" and helps keep the charge of "monopoly" at bay. Separating out into what looks like a semi-pro league for more money comes with risks in those areas.
Right now they buy us off CHEAP. A million or so here and there is pocket change. Why in the world would they give up control and subject themselves to all that risk to avoid paying us peanuts?
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12-29-2016 10:42 PM |
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AppManDG
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 03:40 PM)Crump1 Wrote: (12-29-2016 03:30 PM)AppManDG Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:49 AM)bullitt_60 Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:38 AM)AppManDG Wrote: Have seen this coming for several years. The networks will throw some cash at it and that'll be the all it takes.
Just like the FCS? Or how the networks are throwing money at us now?
The only thing that would cause a divide is the P5 wanting to take the money we are getting now for themselves.
The bowls are dying. For traditional powers the playoff has created a lack of interest. Anything else is seen as a disappointment and fans have little interest playing in what they consider consolation games. Especially against teams from what they consider a lesser conference. 1-AA was created by the NCAA, P5 / G5 is a product of the group behind the playoff. If networks see a value in televising a G5 playoff they'll put $ into it. They never had an interest in the 1-AA playoffs.
Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app
The bowls are far from "dying". It was not long ago that the champion of the SBC was the only team that went to a bowl. La Tech stayed home with 8 or 9 wins. ASU missed going to a bowl several times during the Steve Roberts era at 6-6.
During that recent era, only one game "mattered" and that was the BCS championship game. Now we have three games that "matter" but the bowls are the same as always. They are enjoyed by the fans of those schools involved, they fill time slots for the degenerate CFB fans and gamblers to watch on TV and they provide a reward and a little extra practice for the teams invited.
No bowl that did not involve my team ever really "mattered" to me as anything but a chance to watch some more football. That has not changed.
As has always been and always will be the case, only a few bowl games - now 3 games of the playoff - ever really meant something on a national scale. Years ago the national champion was sometimes crowned before the bowls were even played, so all bowls were exhibition games. The non-major bowls were a reward for teams not in the national championship hunt. IMO that was just fine. I'm not one of those who thinks the game has to have a bearing on the national championship to be relative.
In 1995 there were 91 1-A teams going after the 38 bowl spots, meaning 41% of teams went to bowls. Now we have 128 teams for 86 spots which is a whopping 67% of teams in the division playing in bowl games. Many of these games have been created by ESPN as a way to simply fill air time during December. Games featuring teams with 6-6 and even 5-7 records are the what's devalued bowls. At least with the 11 game schedule 6 wins gave you teams with a winning record. With the 12 game schedule the number to become bowl eligible should be moved up to 7 at the very minimum. Call me crazy, but I enjoyed our games with Ohio and Toledo more than I would playing the 6th place team from a P5 conference.
Perhaps it's just me, but I think it's a slap in the face for our top teams to play a middle of the pack P5 team.
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12-29-2016 11:52 PM |
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MWC Tex
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 11:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote: (12-29-2016 03:40 PM)Crump1 Wrote: (12-29-2016 03:30 PM)AppManDG Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:49 AM)bullitt_60 Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:38 AM)AppManDG Wrote: Have seen this coming for several years. The networks will throw some cash at it and that'll be the all it takes.
Just like the FCS? Or how the networks are throwing money at us now?
The only thing that would cause a divide is the P5 wanting to take the money we are getting now for themselves.
The bowls are dying. For traditional powers the playoff has created a lack of interest. Anything else is seen as a disappointment and fans have little interest playing in what they consider consolation games. Especially against teams from what they consider a lesser conference. 1-AA was created by the NCAA, P5 / G5 is a product of the group behind the playoff. If networks see a value in televising a G5 playoff they'll put $ into it. They never had an interest in the 1-AA playoffs.
Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app
The bowls are far from "dying". It was not long ago that the champion of the SBC was the only team that went to a bowl. La Tech stayed home with 8 or 9 wins. ASU missed going to a bowl several times during the Steve Roberts era at 6-6.
During that recent era, only one game "mattered" and that was the BCS championship game. Now we have three games that "matter" but the bowls are the same as always. They are enjoyed by the fans of those schools involved, they fill time slots for the degenerate CFB fans and gamblers to watch on TV and they provide a reward and a little extra practice for the teams invited.
No bowl that did not involve my team ever really "mattered" to me as anything but a chance to watch some more football. That has not changed.
As has always been and always will be the case, only a few bowl games - now 3 games of the playoff - ever really meant something on a national scale. Years ago the national champion was sometimes crowned before the bowls were even played, so all bowls were exhibition games. The non-major bowls were a reward for teams not in the national championship hunt. IMO that was just fine. I'm not one of those who thinks the game has to have a bearing on the national championship to be relative.
In 1995 there were 91 1-A teams going after the 38 bowl spots, meaning 41% of teams went to bowls. Now we have 128 teams for 86 spots which is a whopping 67% of teams in the division playing in bowl games. Many of these games have been created by ESPN as a way to simply fill air time during December. Games featuring teams with 6-6 and even 5-7 records are the what's devalued bowls. At least with the 11 game schedule 6 wins gave you teams with a winning record. With the 12 game schedule the number to become bowl eligible should be moved up to 7 at the very minimum. Call me crazy, but I enjoyed our games with Ohio and Toledo more than I would playing the 6th place team from a P5 conference.
Perhaps it's just me, but I think it's a slap in the face for our top teams to play a middle of the pack P5 team.
Middle? Most have been the lower tier. The AAC played 2 p5 schools and they were #11 in their conference.
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12-30-2016 12:21 AM |
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FidelCashflow18
Bench Warmer
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 04:36 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: (12-29-2016 04:23 PM)EigenEagle Wrote: Let's take a minute to review what has happened in recent FBS history...
1. The G5 gained voting power in the autonomy proposal.
2. The G5 is getting more money from the CFP than they ever got from the BCS.
3. The G5 essentially has a guaranteed place in ax New Year's Six Bowl.
When you get your opinions from facts and not just going by what ESPN bloggers and talking heads say, does it really seem the Power 5 has the intention to jettison the G5?
And with all of this, the G5 still has absolutely zero chance of getting a team in the playoff. Even if they expand to 8, do you really think they're about to give non P5 conferences auto bids? Hell no lol. They will take the top 8 teams, most likely none of which will be G5, and run with it. The access bowl is basically a "shut up" consolation prize.
I disagree, some of those Boise teams absolutely would have made an 8-team playoff. Still a crazy long shot, but consistently schedule and beat good teams and it can happen.
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12-30-2016 02:50 AM |
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AppManDG
Heisman
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-30-2016 12:21 AM)MWC Tex Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote: (12-29-2016 03:40 PM)Crump1 Wrote: (12-29-2016 03:30 PM)AppManDG Wrote: (12-29-2016 11:49 AM)bullitt_60 Wrote: Just like the FCS? Or how the networks are throwing money at us now?
The only thing that would cause a divide is the P5 wanting to take the money we are getting now for themselves.
The bowls are dying. For traditional powers the playoff has created a lack of interest. Anything else is seen as a disappointment and fans have little interest playing in what they consider consolation games. Especially against teams from what they consider a lesser conference. 1-AA was created by the NCAA, P5 / G5 is a product of the group behind the playoff. If networks see a value in televising a G5 playoff they'll put $ into it. They never had an interest in the 1-AA playoffs.
Sent from my XT1254 using CSNbbs mobile app
The bowls are far from "dying". It was not long ago that the champion of the SBC was the only team that went to a bowl. La Tech stayed home with 8 or 9 wins. ASU missed going to a bowl several times during the Steve Roberts era at 6-6.
During that recent era, only one game "mattered" and that was the BCS championship game. Now we have three games that "matter" but the bowls are the same as always. They are enjoyed by the fans of those schools involved, they fill time slots for the degenerate CFB fans and gamblers to watch on TV and they provide a reward and a little extra practice for the teams invited.
No bowl that did not involve my team ever really "mattered" to me as anything but a chance to watch some more football. That has not changed.
As has always been and always will be the case, only a few bowl games - now 3 games of the playoff - ever really meant something on a national scale. Years ago the national champion was sometimes crowned before the bowls were even played, so all bowls were exhibition games. The non-major bowls were a reward for teams not in the national championship hunt. IMO that was just fine. I'm not one of those who thinks the game has to have a bearing on the national championship to be relative.
In 1995 there were 91 1-A teams going after the 38 bowl spots, meaning 41% of teams went to bowls. Now we have 128 teams for 86 spots which is a whopping 67% of teams in the division playing in bowl games. Many of these games have been created by ESPN as a way to simply fill air time during December. Games featuring teams with 6-6 and even 5-7 records are the what's devalued bowls. At least with the 11 game schedule 6 wins gave you teams with a winning record. With the 12 game schedule the number to become bowl eligible should be moved up to 7 at the very minimum. Call me crazy, but I enjoyed our games with Ohio and Toledo more than I would playing the 6th place team from a P5 conference.
Perhaps it's just me, but I think it's a slap in the face for our top teams to play a middle of the pack P5 team.
Middle? Most have been the lower tier. The AAC played 2 p5 schools and they were #11 in their conference.
I agree, but my point is outside the access spot a middle of the pack P5 is about the best we can hope for. Wake Forest tied NCSU for 4th in the Atlantic Division while S Carolina was the 5th team in the east.
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12-30-2016 08:51 AM |
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ark30inf
Hall of Famer
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
Nothing will ever change until the G5 unify and use what leverage they have in a coordinated manner. You can see how well that is working by looking at the "P6".
Part of that is for BOT's to make it part of the job description of Presidents and AD's and hold them accountable to it. Too many Presidents and AD's are working for the best interests of their imaginary future P5 employer than their current real G5 employer.
Fans need to stop focusing on marginal additional tv revenue. $200,000 in additional revenue is NOT a good reason to jump off a cliff when your budget it $40,000,000. I honestly think some of us would set our campuses on fire for half a million dollars if it was listed as additional football tv dollars....those dollars are more magical than other dollars.
College football is a corrupt, insane, elitist, exploitive, cashopoly The system is rigged. We are told we have to accept it and go along with it and be second-class citizens. The biggest obstacle to getting it changed is not the P5....its the G5 being an incompetent, uncoordinated, self-serving, cowardly, little mob.
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12-30-2016 09:22 AM |
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AlwaysSunny
1st String
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 05:03 PM)EigenEagle Wrote: (12-29-2016 04:36 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote: And with all of this, the G5 still has absolutely zero chance of getting a team in the playoff. Even if they expand to 8, do you really think they're about to give non P5 conferences auto bids? Hell no lol. They will take the top 8 teams, most likely none of which will be G5, and run with it. The access bowl is basically a "shut up" consolation prize.
HEre's the question to ask yourself...the Sun Belt finished last in the conference rankings last year and still profited 1 million dollars per school. Do you think we will get that kind of money from a G5 playoff? No, we won't.
You seem to have the same affliction that the people on Any Given Saturday have....they can't comprehend why you'd want to be FBS for any reason other than whether or not you can compete for a national championship.
I never said the playoff thing would be a good idea. I'm just telling you that realistically, G5 teams have almost 0 chance of ever getting in the field.
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12-30-2016 09:29 AM |
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AlwaysSunny
1st String
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RE: Group of 5 Playoff
(12-29-2016 10:42 PM)ark30inf Wrote: (12-29-2016 09:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote: (12-29-2016 07:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote: Anyone who wants to drop back....drop back. We don't want to.
I think that is more likely to happen and probably will happen sooner than people think.
Again...if the P5 separate then buy games go away and thus they lose home games...which means losing MONEY and fan happiness. Lower tier P5 lose buy games for bowl eligibility. With total separation they also lose the control they have over rules for all of college football. They also run the risk that non-P5 finally decide to cut ties in all sports leaving them with real scheduling and/or travel problems.
With attendance and ratings being soft and the unknowns of cord-cutting and a potential "rights bubble" collapse there are risks to separating from the flock.
Being with the flock also provides cover for the "student-athlete model" and helps keep the charge of "monopoly" at bay. Separating out into what looks like a semi-pro league for more money comes with risks in those areas.
Right now they buy us off CHEAP. A million or so here and there is pocket change. Why in the world would they give up control and subject themselves to all that risk to avoid paying us peanuts?
You seem to be under the assumption that they can't break away and still just pay teams in a lower division to come play at their stadiums....
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12-30-2016 09:31 AM |
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