NIU just can't win in the road. We are a terrible road team. We finally got a road win last night at FIU.

(12-17-2016 03:33 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(12-17-2016 03:06 PM)axeme Wrote:  

(12-16-2016 03:51 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  I think we will find out a lot about where EMU stands tomorrow when they go to Vermont. Probably our last chance at a solid OOC win, since I can't see us beating Syracuse, and Long Beach State has been a huge disappointment.

We've looked dominant at times (Detroit, Omaha), but awful and listless as well (SMU, IUPUI). Safe to say we fall somewhere between those performances. On any given night, we are good enough to handle anyone in the MAC, and inconsistent enough to lose to anyone too. Such is life with Murphy at the helm.

Vermont 82
EMU 74
final

Different year, same issues. We will probably finish with a similar record as last year.

We were homered yesterday by the game officials.

Now I know why teams try to win say 80% of their home games vs. comparable competition but winning on the road can be challenging...

Is it me or is it really that basketball can have real home court 'home cooking' by the game officials (seems much less in FB). Like I never complain about college FB game officials but hoops is another matter...

P.S. it wasn't an 8 point game. The margin increased as EMU got crazy trying to tie the score.

My rankings after today , show EXTREME parity in the 4-7 slots

1) EMU .789
2) CMU .762
3) Kent .696
4) UB .644
5) Ohio .644
6) Akron .624
7) Toledo .623
8) BGSU .599
9) WMU .559
10) BSU .550
11) NIU .526
12) Miami-OH .456

(12-18-2016 04:36 PM)Wadszip Wrote:  Ranking the teams this year is next to impossible because you have to grasp at straws to find anything that is worth touting for anybody, but I'll give it a shot.

It really is hard. The MAC doesn't have a single marquee victory this year. It only has two true road victories over teams in the top 200 in Ken Pom (CMU @ Green Bay-159, Ohio @ Georgia Tech-117) and only 8 road victories total. 5 teams (Akron, Kent St, BG, Miami and WMU) don't have a single road victory. 4 teams (NIU, Miami, BG and Kent St) have bad losses (200+) at home. On the flip side, 5 teams (Akron, CMU, EMU, Buffalo and Ohio) don't have a loss at home.

OOC Golf Standings would look like this:

CMU -2
EMU -1
Ohio -1
Buffalo -1
Toledo E
Akron E
Kent St +1
Ball St +1
NIU +1
WMU +1
Bowling Green +2
Miami +2

True that KSU has no road wins, but they do have two neutral site wins and have only played 1 road game. They have two road games coming up before MAC play.

For what's in worth Akron is 2-0 at neutral sites, including beating Mercer in their home state of Georgia with a pro Mercer crowd. 2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation. The 3rd was the 1st game of the season where they played probably their worst game all season at the same time YSU played one of its best. Akron is typically good for 1 hiccup game per year OOC. Last year it was Green Bay. This year it was YSU.

(12-19-2016 02:29 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation.

That's the story of the league this year. Plenty of good losses but not a single signature win. Not saying the league is bad. Just that nobody really sticks out as being the team to beat. But that should make for a fun regular season.

Not sure this was the best year for us to play the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country (although the Broncos did push Nova to the very end).

(12-19-2016 03:55 PM)OUVan Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 02:29 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation.

That's the story of the league this year. Plenty of good losses but not a single signature win. Not saying the league is bad. Just that nobody really sticks out as being the team to beat. But that should make for a fun regular season.

That's pretty much how it went last year as well. The big problem is that since the bracket busters tournament left there just aren't many chances to pick up those wins without pulling off a double figure upset. MAC teams are typically huge dogs on the road collecting a check and play mostly cupcakes at home. Few to no quality home and home series set up. I'd love to see the MAC work out a deal with the CAA or C-USA similar to that of MVC-MW or B12-ACC challenge. Akron had slim to no chance of winning at Creighton or Gonzaga, but could contend with UNC-Wilm or Middle Tennessee at home or on the road.

(12-19-2016 04:55 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 03:55 PM)OUVan Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 02:29 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation.

That's the story of the league this year. Plenty of good losses but not a single signature win. Not saying the league is bad. Just that nobody really sticks out as being the team to beat. But that should make for a fun regular season.

That's pretty much how it went last year as well. The big problem is that since the bracket busters tournament left there just aren't many chances to pick up those wins without pulling off a double figure upset. MAC teams are typically huge dogs on the road collecting a check and play mostly cupcakes at home. Few to no quality home and home series set up. I'd love to see the MAC work out a deal with the CAA or C-USA similar to that of MVC-MW or B12-ACC challenge. Akron had slim to none chance of winning at Creighton or Gonzaga, but could contend with UNC-Wilm or Middle Tennessee at home or on the road.

The beauty of Bracketbusters was it gave you a game in February, PLUS a quality non-conference game the following season. As the years rolled on that became two good games home-and-home each year. Tough to find those anymore ...

ESPN built their basketball ID on Bracketbusters, Big Monday and so forth ... but those days are long gone ... and ESPN is dripping away too. Hmmmm.

(12-19-2016 05:03 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 04:55 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 03:55 PM)OUVan Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 02:29 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation.

That's the story of the league this year. Plenty of good losses but not a single signature win. Not saying the league is bad. Just that nobody really sticks out as being the team to beat. But that should make for a fun regular season.

That's pretty much how it went last year as well. The big problem is that since the bracket busters tournament left there just aren't many chances to pick up those wins without pulling off a double figure upset. MAC teams are typically huge dogs on the road collecting a check and play mostly cupcakes at home. Few to no quality home and home series set up. I'd love to see the MAC work out a deal with the CAA or C-USA similar to that of MVC-MW or B12-ACC challenge. Akron had slim to none chance of winning at Creighton or Gonzaga, but could contend with UNC-Wilm or Middle Tennessee at home or on the road.

The beauty of Bracketbusters was it gave you a game in February, PLUS a quality non-conference game the following season. As the years rolled on that became two good games home-and-home each year. Tough to find those anymore ...

ESPN built their basketball ID on Bracketbusters, Big Monday and so forth ... but those days are long gone ... and ESPN is dripping away too. Hmmmm.

ESPN's greed has a lot to do with it. Had cable prices over the last 18 years stayed consistent with inflation, the American consumer would be able to pay $35/mo for 165 stations. A price a large number of current cord cutters would agree to pay. Instead Disney and other prime cable stations jacked up subscriber fees in an attempt to milk the consumer for every last penny.

http://time.com/money/4227133/cable-pric...inflation/

Edit: This still won't stop ESPN from delivering more truck loads of money to the NFL, Big 10, SEC, etc. They overpaid for these properties and keep trying to raise subscriber fees to bail themselves out. In return it is causing more and more people to cut cable faster.

(12-19-2016 12:07 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  My rankings after today , show EXTREME parity in the 4-7 slots

1) EMU .789
2) CMU .762
3) Kent .696
4) UB .644
5) Ohio .644
6) Akron .624
7) Toledo .623
8) BGSU .599
9) WMU .559
10) BSU .550
11) NIU .526
12) Miami-OH .456

Your rankings are a real hoot! I'm guessing that you are using similar metrics to those used by the media that predicted a Clinton landslide win.

(12-19-2016 04:55 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 03:55 PM)OUVan Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 02:29 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  2 of their 3 road games were against teams that have yet to lose this season and are top 10 in the nation.

That's the story of the league this year. Plenty of good losses but not a single signature win. Not saying the league is bad. Just that nobody really sticks out as being the team to beat. But that should make for a fun regular season.

That's pretty much how it went last year as well. The big problem is that since the bracket busters tournament left there just aren't many chances to pick up those wins without pulling off a double figure upset. MAC teams are typically huge dogs on the road collecting a check and play mostly cupcakes at home. Few to no quality home and home series set up. I'd love to see the MAC work out a deal with the CAA or C-USA similar to that of MVC-MW or B12-ACC challenge. Akron had slim to no chance of winning at Creighton or Gonzaga, but could contend with UNC-Wilm or Middle Tennessee at home or on the road.

Akron had a four game home and home with Middle Tennessee before they did the four-year home and home with Marshall (one that you mentioned on ZNO was picked up for four more years). Marshall seems to be all for scheduling MAC teams which is a good thing for both parties. I wish Akron would've been able to keep the MTSU series going, too. Think MTSU won three of the four, but IIR, three were really good games (and MTSU had a blowout win).

Edit: Went back and looked and it was just a two-game series with MTSU winning big in Murfreesboro and Akron winning in OT at the JAR. Not sure why I thought that was a four-gamer. Maybe it was because I was (and still do) hoping that series would continue.

(12-19-2016 08:24 PM)hilltopper Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 12:07 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  My rankings after today , show EXTREME parity in the 4-7 slots

1) EMU .789
2) CMU .762
3) Kent .696
4) UB .644
5) Ohio .644
6) Akron .624
7) Toledo .623
8) BGSU .599
9) WMU .559
10) BSU .550
11) NIU .526
12) Miami-OH .456

Your rankings are a real hoot! I'm guessing that you are using similar metrics to those used by the media that predicted a Clinton landslide win.

I won't talk bad about somebody who takes the time to create a system for ranking teams, even if I don't agree with it. So, I won't knock it.

I believe it was OUVan who asked if you (Maddawgz) count the non D1 games in your system? Also, do you take into account the quality of opponent? Those are obviously big factors, but also more time consuming to track.

Overall, though, I don't have a problem with those rankings as I've and OUVan (and everybody else) seem to be on the same conclusion that there is a ton of uncertainty because of the lack of any meaningful wins.

I won't be critical of the formula as long as EMU falls behind Akron in the rankings. Akron's 3 losses were by a combined 38 points and that included 2 top 10 opponents. EMU just got slaughtered by 48 against an unranked Syracuse team.

Kenpom Ratings

89 - Akron
93 - Ohio
112 - EMU
125 - Buffalo
137 - Toledo
147 - CMU
152 - Kent State
173 - NIU
178 - Ball State
197 - Bowling Green
207 - WMU
293 - Miami

This looks like a fair ranking based on the results to date and is pretty much exactly how I'd rank them myself.

Compare those to Sagarin?
95 Akron = 76.63 7 3
99 Ohio = 76.17 7 2
132 Kent State = 73.60 6 4
142 Toledo = 72.45 5 6
146 Buffalo = 72.28 3 6
149 Eastern Michigan = 72.19 3 5
164 Central Michigan = 71.11 6 3
193 Ball State = 69.63 6 4
196 Northern Illinois = 69.28 4 5
206 Bowling Green = 68.60 3 7
238 Western Michigan = 66.67 2 7
256 Miami-Ohio = 65.19 4 6

Relatively close to Kenpom. Kenpom has everyone up a few notches. Sagarin doesn't include non-DI

(12-20-2016 11:44 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Kenpom Ratings

89 - Akron
93 - Ohio
112 - EMU
125 - Buffalo
137 - Toledo
147 - CMU
152 - Kent State
173 - NIU
178 - Ball State
197 - Bowling Green
207 - WMU
293 - Miami

This looks like a fair ranking based on the results to date and is pretty much exactly how I'd rank them myself.

It's probably not far off. However, I would say that CMU is low on that list. Without a doubt they should be higher than Toledo at a minimum. There aren't a lot of direct common opponents to go off, but Toledo lost to Green Bay, whom CMU beat soundly at home AND on the road. I think as someone posted earlier, if you swapped Toledo and CMU you basically have the tier of teams who have shown the most so far and you can make an argument for any of them to be #1 or #5. I will add though that EMU is quickly falling down my personal list. They look like another Jekyll and Hyde team that has the talent to beat anyone, but it's a coin flip on whether that team shows up or they get blown out by 40...

I still believe OU and Akron are the leading contenders for the MAC regular season title. Other teams like CMU are good enough that they can spring an upset and potentially win the Tourney, but in CMU case I don't feel they have the size and depth to go 14-4 or whatever it takes to win the regular season title.

(12-20-2016 05:18 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  I still believe OU and Akron are the leading contenders for the MAC regular season title. Other teams like CMU are good enough that they can spring an upset and potentially win the Tourney, but in CMU case I don't feel they have the size and depth to go 14-4 or whatever it takes to win the regular season title.

I also would say Ohio and Akron are huge favorites to win the league ... Buffalo and Eastern???/Central??? ... could contend if ....

three of those five for sure will get byes to the tournament ...

after that huge ??? for every team left. Haven't looked hard at the individual schedules but guessing one team has a much better road to a bye than others.