(12-15-2016 09:59 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Sure Miami is great and all with it's illustrious green space and it's historical buildings and all, but does it have the culture of Akron? Hard to compete with Akron's panhandling homeless and it's 3 AM wake up calls to the vibrant sounds of gunfire? /s

What do you mean? That is the Pre-Wake up call to make sure everyone at least try to get to class/work on time

(12-16-2016 02:02 PM)mpurdy22 Wrote:  

(12-16-2016 01:40 PM)JSF Wrote:  

(12-16-2016 11:30 AM)Bang Burger Wrote:  Miami is now two very different schools in one.

They both suck.

Its funny that you "root" for quality writing, but your input into the discussion is simply "They both suck". Deep man, deep.

I'm a little disturbed you can't distinguish between published writing and message board banter.

Facilities help with recruiting, but in college ball it's the HC that matters most. You can clearly see it with the ebb and flow of the success of the various MAC programs. At Miami we've had two disastrous hires of a HC and now we have in Chuck Martin a guy who has been a successful HC as well as been a coordinator at ND. The facility improvements at Miami in the last 5 years or so are nothing short of miraculous and should certainly pay dividends in recruiting and retaining good talent. I fully expect for Miami to contend for the MAC title next year (and didn't Miami already tie for first in the MAC East this year??).

(12-19-2016 12:40 PM)CincyKid3 Wrote:  Facilities help with recruiting, but in college ball it's the HC that matters most. You can clearly see it with the ebb and flow of the success of the various MAC programs. At Miami we've had two disastrous hires of a HC and now we have in Chuck Martin a guy who has been a successful HC as well as been a coordinator at ND. The facility improvements at Miami in the last 5 years or so are nothing short of miraculous and should certainly pay dividends in recruiting and retaining good talent. I fully expect for Miami to contend for the MAC title next year (and didn't Miami already tie for first in the MAC East this year??).

Can confirm. Akron had a $17MM IPF built in 2004 and a $60+MM new stadium built in 2009. Akron easily has to be at or near the top of the MAC in the football facilities department, but it hasn't translated much to on the field success.

The schools in the G5 where its the easiest to win are Houston and USF with plenty of talent in their metros and with no direct P5 competition in their respective markets.

For a typical G5 school if you can rack up enough wins by great coaching it helps you with recruiting and can make up for the lack of recruiting advantages.

The recruiting level of a state and whether you can pitch your college statewide is a factor.

That is what hurts FAU and FIU. They have a P5 directly in their market and can't sell it across the state very well. The same with Georgia State and San Jose State. You would figure they could do better with local talent but they are commuter schools.

Western Michigan doesn't have any P5's directly in its market and can pitch itself statewide effectively to make up for Kalamazoo not being a major hotbed.

Miami used to be though of as a major statewide school but its developed more into a Public Ivy which I think has hurt its football program.

Northeast Ohio might be the richest recruiting ground in the MAC footprint and the chief P5 competition is 2+ hours away. The problem is too many schools in the B1G and MAC dip into it. If Kent or Akron was able to keep its backyard talent home like Houston has it would easily become a beast in the MAC. Unfortunately that will likely never happen.

(12-19-2016 09:35 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Northeast Ohio might be the richest recruiting ground in the MAC footprint and the chief P5 competition is 2+ hours away. The problem is too many schools in the B1G and MAC dip into it. If Kent or Akron was able to keep its backyard talent home like Houston has it would easily become a beast in the MAC. Unfortunately that will likely never happen.

Yeah, it's tough footing, but I won't say never with Akron, though of course I'm looking at the bright side. Akron has built a pretty good pipeline into St. Vincent-St. Mary, which has produced a ton of D1 talent and two state titles in the past five years and may have added another, especially in 2015, if not being in the same region as Akron Hoban (which has won back-to-back titles, and is also starting to produce a lot of D1 talent). Really, Ohio D3 football has been dominated by the two Akron schools, and D3 is probably the second strongest division when it comes to teams, since outside of D1, that is where the Catholics are ... St. V, Hoban, Toledo Central Catholic, Columbus DeSales, Trotwood-Madison (not Catholic, but a powerhouse).

Then there is the emerging Akron East pipeline. And if you follow Ohio recruiting, it's a program that is establishing itself as an upcoming inner-city talent power ... not to the level yet of Trotwood-Madison (Dayton) or Glenville (Cleveland), but it's a young program. And Kreed you already know this, but Akron city kids are flocking to that program, which is coached by an Akron football alum. Akron East has at least a half dozen kids who are legit D1 prospects and so far, all are headed to Akron or are Akron leans. The problem may be when/if that program gets to the Trotwood or Glenville level and everybody starts recruiting it, can Akron keep its foothold? As long as Marques Hayes is the coach, there is a shot.

But you are absolutely correct in saying that Akron (and Kent) is right in the middle of the most fertile recruiting base in the MAC. The Northeast Ohio region has 33 players in the NFL ... out of 75 total for Ohio (44 percent). Summit County alone has 51 players on FBS rosters. Plus, Summit County high school teams have the best record in the Ohio playoffs of any big county in the state since 2010 ... only Montgomery County (Dayton) is close. Way better record than the much more thought of Cuyahoga (Cleveland, which is just to the north, anyway) and way, way better than Franklin (Columbus) or Hamilton (Cincinnati).

The best thing about the Akron base is Terry Bowden is targeting it (what is it 11 players from the Summit County in the 2017 class?) and Ohio State (and other Big 10 schools are leaning more toward recruiting the South in recent years). That not only helps Akron, but the rest of the MAC since there is still major talent in this state.

Look at mocks of this year's NFL draft, it's loaded with Ohio kids. There are 10 former Ohio prep stars who are projected in the top 85 in various mock drafts:

First round potential
1. Mitch Trubisky (Cleveland)
2. Marshon Lattimore (Cleveland)
3. DeShone Kizer (Toledo)
4. Jake Butt (Columbus)
5. Taco Charlton (Columbus)
6. Gareon Conley (Canton)
7. Pat Elfein (Columbus)
8. Chris Wormley (Toledo)
9. Tyler Orlosky (Cleveland)
10. Duwuane Smoot (Columbus)

That's not even counting a bunch of guys ranked in the mid-to-late rounds (all but one from Northeast Ohio)

Jake Replogle (Dayton)
Kareem Hunt (Cleveland)
Michael Roberts (Cleveland)
Pharaoh Brown (Cleveland)
Ben Gedeon (Akron)
De'Veon Smith (Youngstown)
Kyle Kalis (Cleveland)
Corey Smith (Akron) ... this one surprised me a bit because he's a knucklehead, but he's a 4.3-4.4 knucklehead, so could see somebody taking that chance.

I say let the big boys in the Big Ten turn their focus to the South. More talent for the MAC to scoop up (though all the aforementioned guys are at P5 schools outside of Toledo's Hunt and Roberts ... and Akron's Jerome Lane who is a local Akron kid not showing up on mocks yet, but I guarantee he gets drafted, maybe as soon as the third round).

Still, there is a real trend of the OSU/Michigan/ND/mid-tier B10 schools shifting their focus away from Ohio the past 3-4 years despite the state still producing a ton of talent, talent which is still heavily leaned toward the northeast portion of the state.

(12-20-2016 12:55 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 09:35 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Northeast Ohio might be the richest recruiting ground in the MAC footprint and the chief P5 competition is 2+ hours away. The problem is too many schools in the B1G and MAC dip into it. If Kent or Akron was able to keep its backyard talent home like Houston has it would easily become a beast in the MAC. Unfortunately that will likely never happen.

Yeah, it's tough footing, but I won't say never with Akron, though of course I'm looking at the bright side. Akron has built a pretty good pipeline into St. Vincent-St. Mary, which has produced a ton of D1 talent and two state titles in the past five years and may have added another, especially in 2015, if not being in the same region as Akron Hoban (which has won back-to-back titles, and is also starting to produce a lot of D1 talent). Really, Ohio D3 football has been dominated by the two Akron schools, and D3 is probably the second strongest division when it comes to teams, since outside of D1, that is where the Catholics are ... St. V, Hoban, Toledo Central Catholic, Columbus DeSales, Trotwood-Madison (not Catholic, but a powerhouse).

Then there is the emerging Akron East pipeline. And if you follow Ohio recruiting, it's a program that is establishing itself as an upcoming inner-city talent power ... not to the level yet of Trotwood-Madison (Dayton) or Glenville (Cleveland), but it's a young program. And Kreed you already know this, but Akron city kids are flocking to that program, which is coached by an Akron football alum. Akron East has at least a half dozen kids who are legit D1 prospects and so far, all are headed to Akron or are Akron leans. The problem may be when/if that program gets to the Trotwood or Glenville level and everybody starts recruiting it, can Akron keep its foothold? As long as Marques Hayes is the coach, there is a shot.

But you are absolutely correct in saying that Akron (and Kent) is right in the middle of the most fertile recruiting base in the MAC. The Northeast Ohio region has 33 players in the NFL ... out of 75 total for Ohio (44 percent). Summit County alone has 51 players on FBS rosters. Plus, Summit County high school teams have the best record in the Ohio playoffs of any big county in the state since 2010 ... only Montgomery County (Dayton) is close. Way better record than the much more thought of Cuyahoga (Cleveland, which is just to the north, anyway) and way, way better than Franklin (Columbus) or Hamilton (Cincinnati).

The best thing about the Akron base is Terry Bowden is targeting it (what is it 11 players from the Summit County in the 2017 class?) and Ohio State (and other Big 10 schools are leaning more toward recruiting the South in recent years). That not only helps Akron, but the rest of the MAC since there is still major talent in this state.

Look at mocks of this year's NFL draft, it's loaded with Ohio kids. There are 10 former Ohio prep stars who are projected in the top 85 in various mock drafts:

First round potential
1. Mitch Trubisky (Cleveland)
2. Marshon Lattimore (Cleveland)
3. DeShone Kizer (Toledo)
4. Jake Butt (Columbus)
5. Taco Charlton (Columbus)
6. Gareon Conley (Canton)
7. Pat Elfein (Columbus)
8. Chris Wormley (Toledo)
9. Tyler Orlosky (Cleveland)
10. Duwuane Smoot (Columbus)

That's not even counting a bunch of guys ranked in the mid-to-late rounds (all but one from Northeast Ohio)

Jake Replogle (Dayton)
Kareem Hunt (Cleveland)
Michael Roberts (Cleveland)
Pharaoh Brown (Cleveland)
Ben Gedeon (Akron)
De'Veon Smith (Youngstown)
Kyle Kalis (Cleveland)
Corey Smith (Akron) ... this one surprised me a bit because he's a knucklehead, but he's a 4.3-4.4 knucklehead, so could see somebody taking that chance.

I say let the big boys in the Big Ten turn their focus to the South. More talent for the MAC to scoop up (though all the aforementioned guys are at P5 schools outside of Toledo's Hunt and Roberts ... and Akron's Jerome Lane who is a local Akron kid not showing up on mocks yet, but I guarantee he gets drafted, maybe as soon as the third round).

Still, there is a real trend of the OSU/Michigan/ND/mid-tier B10 schools shifting their focus away from Ohio the past 3-4 years despite the state still producing a ton of talent, talent which is still heavily leaned toward the northeast portion of the state.

I always appreciate your detailed posts in regards to recruiting. You clearly stay on top of your stuff. What holds me back from your same level of optimism is Akron hasn't shown the ability to consistently beat out other MAC schools and lower to mid tier P5 schools for those Cuyahoga County kids. Not to say it won't happen, but it will be extremely challenging to do.

(12-20-2016 01:20 AM)kreed5120 Wrote:  

(12-20-2016 12:55 AM)Wadszip Wrote:  

(12-19-2016 09:35 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  Northeast Ohio might be the richest recruiting ground in the MAC footprint and the chief P5 competition is 2+ hours away. The problem is too many schools in the B1G and MAC dip into it. If Kent or Akron was able to keep its backyard talent home like Houston has it would easily become a beast in the MAC. Unfortunately that will likely never happen.

Yeah, it's tough footing, but I won't say never with Akron, though of course I'm looking at the bright side. Akron has built a pretty good pipeline into St. Vincent-St. Mary, which has produced a ton of D1 talent and two state titles in the past five years and may have added another, especially in 2015, if not being in the same region as Akron Hoban (which has won back-to-back titles, and is also starting to produce a lot of D1 talent). Really, Ohio D3 football has been dominated by the two Akron schools, and D3 is probably the second strongest division when it comes to teams, since outside of D1, that is where the Catholics are ... St. V, Hoban, Toledo Central Catholic, Columbus DeSales, Trotwood-Madison (not Catholic, but a powerhouse).

Then there is the emerging Akron East pipeline. And if you follow Ohio recruiting, it's a program that is establishing itself as an upcoming inner-city talent power ... not to the level yet of Trotwood-Madison (Dayton) or Glenville (Cleveland), but it's a young program. And Kreed you already know this, but Akron city kids are flocking to that program, which is coached by an Akron football alum. Akron East has at least a half dozen kids who are legit D1 prospects and so far, all are headed to Akron or are Akron leans. The problem may be when/if that program gets to the Trotwood or Glenville level and everybody starts recruiting it, can Akron keep its foothold? As long as Marques Hayes is the coach, there is a shot.

But you are absolutely correct in saying that Akron (and Kent) is right in the middle of the most fertile recruiting base in the MAC. The Northeast Ohio region has 33 players in the NFL ... out of 75 total for Ohio (44 percent). Summit County alone has 51 players on FBS rosters. Plus, Summit County high school teams have the best record in the Ohio playoffs of any big county in the state since 2010 ... only Montgomery County (Dayton) is close. Way better record than the much more thought of Cuyahoga (Cleveland, which is just to the north, anyway) and way, way better than Franklin (Columbus) or Hamilton (Cincinnati).

The best thing about the Akron base is Terry Bowden is targeting it (what is it 11 players from the Summit County in the 2017 class?) and Ohio State (and other Big 10 schools are leaning more toward recruiting the South in recent years). That not only helps Akron, but the rest of the MAC since there is still major talent in this state.

Look at mocks of this year's NFL draft, it's loaded with Ohio kids. There are 10 former Ohio prep stars who are projected in the top 85 in various mock drafts:

First round potential
1. Mitch Trubisky (Cleveland)
2. Marshon Lattimore (Cleveland)
3. DeShone Kizer (Toledo)
4. Jake Butt (Columbus)
5. Taco Charlton (Columbus)
6. Gareon Conley (Canton)
7. Pat Elfein (Columbus)
8. Chris Wormley (Toledo)
9. Tyler Orlosky (Cleveland)
10. Duwuane Smoot (Columbus)

That's not even counting a bunch of guys ranked in the mid-to-late rounds (all but one from Northeast Ohio)

Jake Replogle (Dayton)
Kareem Hunt (Cleveland)
Michael Roberts (Cleveland)
Pharaoh Brown (Cleveland)
Ben Gedeon (Akron)
De'Veon Smith (Youngstown)
Kyle Kalis (Cleveland)
Corey Smith (Akron) ... this one surprised me a bit because he's a knucklehead, but he's a 4.3-4.4 knucklehead, so could see somebody taking that chance.

I say let the big boys in the Big Ten turn their focus to the South. More talent for the MAC to scoop up (though all the aforementioned guys are at P5 schools outside of Toledo's Hunt and Roberts ... and Akron's Jerome Lane who is a local Akron kid not showing up on mocks yet, but I guarantee he gets drafted, maybe as soon as the third round).

Still, there is a real trend of the OSU/Michigan/ND/mid-tier B10 schools shifting their focus away from Ohio the past 3-4 years despite the state still producing a ton of talent, talent which is still heavily leaned toward the northeast portion of the state.

I always appreciate your detailed posts in regards to recruiting. You clearly stay on top of your stuff. What holds me back from your same level of optimism is Akron hasn't shown the ability to consistently beat out other MAC schools and lower to mid tier P5 schools for those Cuyahoga County kids. Not to say it won't happen, but it will be extremely challenging to do.

I agree. Though it's mainly been Toledo and Ohio kicking Akron's ass for the Cuyahoga (Cleveland area) kids that end up in the MAC. Kent does also do well due to proximity, but the Kareem Hunt's and Michael Roberts' generally aren't going there (hell most of Kent's top players have been from out of state outside of maybe James Harrison (an Akron guy), who wasn't exactly a model student coming out of HS.

But Toledo and Ohio both have the advantage of being winning programs for well over a decade. Toledo is a different animal because you are talking about 40-plus years of sustained success, but if Akron could even get itself to Ohio's level, I think you'd see the kids from Cuyahoga/Lake/Lorain take more notice ... same could be said for Kent (which albeit already does better in Cleveland).

Yeah, maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but if you can build a winning culture with a main base of Akron-Canton area kids (along with Florida), I think the Cleveland area guys will be more open to passing up other MAC opportunities.

But, overall, the Cleveland area has been a big struggle for this program, which is maddening to me since I'm a born-and-raised Clevelander who has lived in the Akron area for the past 15 years and love the area ... and I can still get "home" to see all my family and friends "up there" in 45 minutes (though I guess I technically I still live in the Cleveland metro area due to the dumb ways the metros are drawn ... but no way is Wadsworth more Cleveland than it is Akron).

KittonHead wrote: Miami used to be though of as a major statewide school but its developed more into a Public Ivy which I think has hurt its football program.
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eCK: Kitton, although Miami has indeed been on a mission to continually improve its academic standing (and quite successfully I'd say based on the record applicants and all time high caliber of the incoming frosh class among other things), I'm not sure that hurt the football program as much as just a lack of overall focus on the major sports. Instead, in the past decade or so Miami has seemingly tried to improve a host of facilties, both revenue and non revenue while pumping money into the nationally known hockey program. There is only so much money to spread around. Cases in point were the new baseball and softball stadiums and of course a $32MM hockey arena, arguably one of college hockey's top 5 venues.

In this time period there were improvements made to Yager stadium (new away stands, Cradle of Coach's plaza, Fieldturf and new lights and scoreboard, etc), but after the Big Ben era (2001-2003) football regressed with a couple of very bad Head Coach hires. The Basketball program languished to much more severe degree and continues to underwhelm. (i.e. we need a new Coach plus a new arena). But with our new AD Saylor we got Coach Martin for football and have had an incredibly successful financial drive, resulting in the new IPF (Big Ben even threw in a mil), and now the very impressive new football and conditioning building (Gunlock Center) right next to the IPF in the endzone of Yager. So, I think we are poised for another good run of football......at least as long as we have a good HC!