(12-15-2016 10:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-15-2016 09:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  four guys having sex, consensual or otherwise, with one woman on camera is not behavior to be proud of

The investigation and the evidence says it was consensual.

That's the end of it.


Anything further you have to say on the matter is simply your opinion on how the world should be. You don't get to arbitrarily punish players because they don't act like good little church boys, or whatever it is that you idealize.

And anything you say is just your opinion. That's the way this works. You have your standards for acceptable behavior, and I have mine. And I don't get to punish any players when they behave badly. But Minnesota does. Playing sports and representing your university is a privilege - not a right. I applaud our schools when they hold their students to high standards.

Coach Bierman and Bruce Smith are ashamed.

Let the FCS national champion play...

the Big 10 needs to open an investigation into this and look at possibly booting MN if they are covering this up

(12-15-2016 10:18 PM)ken d Wrote:  But Minnesota does.

No, they don't.

And glad the players aren't just laying down, taking it. One senior WR even called out the president of the U. That takes some guts.


Be interesting to see what happens. But a lot of people have bought plane tickets, hotel rooms, etc. to San Diego. This is is affecting pocket books.

That's how you get mountains moved.

After the Duke situation (where the accuser was lying), and the Baylor situation (where the program was lying)... ...I just don't know who to trust.

I will say this - the players that are not connected to this situation have the most to lose. If they are willing to put something they've worked for their whole lives at stake, it's because they know the truth. They wouldn't be boycotting a bowl game to protect a liar in their own ranks.

Well, this is one way to get Minnesota football relevantagain!

(12-15-2016 10:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(12-15-2016 09:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  four guys having sex, consensual or otherwise, with one woman on camera is not behavior to be proud of

The investigation and the evidence says it was consensual.

That's the end of it.

The criminal investigation was about whether there was sufficient evidence that it was a crime to bring an indictment.

Whether the incident involved appropriate behavior according to team rules would be of no relevance to the criminal investigation, unless it was also criminal behavior. And it's highly unlikely that the team rules are "as long as you are not convicted, you are in the clear," however much the players may wish that that was the standard.

As a Louisville fan all I can say is:

They should have paid her. (We did ) Paid or not, a hoe is a hoe.

All joking aside, those here naive enough to think every woman that screams rape is a victim need to join the rest of us in the real world. A quick test for any of you defending the virtue of this young lady. If you have a teenage son ask him to show you his collection of selfies from the girls he goes to school with. Bet he's got one or two that will make you blush.

As for the Gophers boycotting the Holiday Bowl, I applaud them for sticking up for their teammates.
CJ

Quote:After the Duke situation (where the accuser was lying), and the Baylor situation (where the program was lying)... ...I just don't know who to trust.

The Duke situation -- I knew the players were right on that. Thing is, against lawyers wishes they were WTF came right out -- but here's the thing -- it wasn't the college VS them. It was them vs the accusation.

With this, this is different. There's 10 days from Saturday 'till bowl time. Is NIU going to jump in? NIU to say "hey, we're back!"? Probably not (even though yes I wish).

Basically, they have a real reason to go WTF -- especially when the cops saw the home video where the gal was into it (but for only 90 seconds). These things take time, and Minn players are Volunteering (for how many days?) to step away from the bowl. With players gone and controversy -- yeah, they're in position to lose.

Thing is: How is Minnesota about it? Are they going to just say "Sorry, it is how it is?" Or say "Well, it's more than $2 million for this bowl, we have to do something to make these guys to at least show up"?

Treon Harris, Lloyd Tubman, Chris Jones, Chuck Hayes.....just to name a few.

Anyone have any idea who these young men are? They all were accused of rape, found quilty in the court of public opinion only to have the charges dropped by their accuser. Their reputations however can never be fully restored. The damage is already done.
CJ

Same thing with the Winston Case at FSU. The law enforcement and the school swept it under the rug just like Baylor. It does sound like the law enforcement people are protecting the players and brought no charges against them. Then, these same players got restraining orders brought against them. That part tells you that these players were harassing her. That does not sound like innocent players to me. Just stay away from her or you could get yourself into trouble. The players deserved to be suspended and expelled for their behavior after the incident.

Minnesota needs to announce that players who refuse to live up to their responsibilities for scholarship will lose said scholarships immediately. If the NCAA has any sense of justice they would give Minny an exception to the scholarship limits for this recruiting class and announce that it was waiving any transfer penalty for players who were transferring in to Minnesota from other institutions as well.

The players are trying to undermine the disciplinary process of the University and the EOAA which is a creation of Title IX which is federal law. They are receiving scholarship money to play football and they are now refusing to play football. Strip the scholarships immediately.

(12-14-2016 12:47 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  http://www.startribune.com/ten-gophers-f...406406736/

Quote:Ten Gophers football players were suspended indefinitely by the University of Minnesota on Tuesday, the latest fallout from an incident that happened a few hours after the season began.

The suspended players are Ray Buford, Carlton Djam, Seth Green, KiAnte Hardin, Dior Johnson, Tamarion Johnson, Kobe McCrary, Antonio Shenault, Mark Williams and Antoine Winfield Jr.

Lee Hutton, an attorney representing several of the players, said the suspensions stem from an internal university investigation into the same Sept. 2 incident in a Dinkytown apartment that happened in the early morning hours after the team’s season-opening victory over Oregon State.

The next week, the Gophers suspended four players — Buford, Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson — for an unspecified violation of team rules. Those players missed three games while police investigated, and they were reinstated when Hennepin County declined to press charges. No arrests were made in the alleged incident.

...

An alleged victim from the Sept. 2 incident, who is part of the Gophers gameday operations, filed restraining orders against those four players, along with Djam, that kept the five players out of TCF Bank Stadium for the Oct. 29 Rutgers game.

The restraining orders were dismissed in a Nov. 2 settlement, which still required the players to stay 20 feet away from the alleged victim.

...

That day, after a morning of testimony at the Hennepin County Courthouse before Judge Mel Dickstein, the alleged victim gave a statement that said, “I’m glad this is over. This has never been about punishing anyone, I just wanted to feel safe. Because of this resolution that we came to, now I do.”

But the university’s office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action (EOAA) conducted its own investigation, which led to these latest suspensions.

According to a person familiar with the case and police documents obtained by the Star Tribune, the five newly suspended players — Green, McCrary, Shenault, Williams and Winfield — were in the apartment on Sept. 2.

...

The EOAA makes punishment recommendations to the university, and individuals are allowed to appeal. Hutton said all of his clients will appeal, but it’s unclear if they’ll receive a hearing before the Holiday Bowl.

This was investigated by actual investigators and no charges were brought. And the victim settled out of court. It was over, weeks ago.


I suspect emails are flying with threats of lawsuits against the University unless it instructs its EOAA office to immediately dismiss the investigation and any recommendations for suspensions/expulsions. Would not be surprised if heads rolled over this, as well.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/nation-wor...12228.html

What a zoo! Any thinking person knew Missouri's threatened boycott opened a Pandora's Box.

Wolitarsky said the suspended players’ constitutional rights were violated and demanded a meeting between the team and the university regents without Kaler or Coyle present. He also said that Coyle provided “misleading statements” in a meeting with the team.

Coyle and Kaper released a statement in response to the announced boycott, standing by the suspensions and not apologizing.
“We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week’s suspension of 10 Gopher Football players from all team activites,” the statement read. “The reality is that not everyone can have all the facts, and unfortunately the University cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy. We fully support our Gopher football players and all of our student-athletes. Situations like this are always difficult and the decision was made in consultation with and has the full support of President Eric Kaler. The decision was based on facts and is reflective of the University’s values.”

Meanwhile, the team’s head coach, Tracy Claeys, expressed his support for the boycott on Twitter, tweeting that he has “never been more proud” of his players and commending them for their “effort to make a better world.”


Read more here: http://www.bradenton.com/news/nation-wor...rylink=cpy

(12-15-2016 02:08 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Update today: http://www.startribune.com/sex-assault-a...406564806/

Quote:Hutton said the EOAA recommended expulsion for Ray Buford, Carlton Djam, KiAnte Hardin, Dior Johnson and Tamarion Johnson; one-year suspensions from the university for Seth Green, Kobe McCrary, Mark Williams and Antoine Winfield Jr., and probation for Antonio Shenault.

Quote:On Sept. 8, police investigators Eric Faulconer and Matthew Wente interviewed Djam. He acknowledged having sex with the woman, but was adamant that it was consensual. As proof, he played them three separate videos, totaling about 90 seconds, taken that morning.

During an 8-second clip, the woman “appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time,” Wente wrote in his report. After viewing two additional videos, he wrote “the sexual contact appears entirely consensual.”

Police later interviewed four other players, who each said the sex was consensual.

On Sept. 30, Wente sent the investigation to the Hennepin County Attorney’s office for possible prosecution. In it, he wrote about the videos, “at no time does she indicate that she is in distress or that the contact is unwelcome or nonconsensual.”

On Oct. 3 the attorney’s office announced there would be no charges.

Afterward, the alleged victim filed a restraining order against six of the players, asking that they be made to stay away from the stadium. After a judge granted the orders, the woman dropped a petition against one of the players.

Hutton, the players’ attorney, appealed, setting up a hearing where the woman testified for several hours. The hearing eventually ended in a settlement — the restraining order would be dropped, but the players still had to stay 20 feet away from the woman and have no contact with her. The two sides also agreed that neither would be able to file a lawsuit.

“I’m glad this is over,” the student read in a statement after the hearing. “This has never been about punishing anyone, I just wanted to feel safe. Because of this resolution that we came to, now I do.”

But the EOAA doesn't have to follow the law, it can make up whatever recommendations it wants, simply because a complaint was filed.

I think there's very little chance the players get to play in the bowl game. Starting safety and cornerback are out, along with their backups. Against air raid Washington State.


Innocent, until proven guilty. That's what it's supposed to be, anyway.

The BEST possible interpretation is very embarrassing to the university. If somebody embarrasses you, they shouldn't be getting "paid" to represent you. The worst possible interpretation is that they gang raped her while taking a video of it.

Good for the Minnesota president.

Now they should get due process before being expelled from the university, but this is just an indefinite suspension from the football team. That is a privilege, not a right.

(12-15-2016 05:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The video evidence was used to exonerate the accused!!!

What other evidence are you talking about????


This is not some crap that got swept under the rug. They were suspended, criminal (actual) investigators did their job, and the conclusion was reached that there was not evidence warranting charges.

G-D .... why are you trying to squeeze blood from a turnip???


Are you trying to teach vigilante justice to your children?? "Well son, even though they didn't find evidence that Johnny stole your crayons, we both know in our hearts that it was really him ... so let's go kick his a__!"

Explains your devoted support for Hillary.

(12-15-2016 09:51 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-15-2016 05:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  The video evidence was used to exonerate the accused!!!

What other evidence are you talking about????


This is not some crap that got swept under the rug. They were suspended, criminal (actual) investigators did their job, and the conclusion was reached that there was not evidence warranting charges.

G-D .... why are you trying to squeeze blood from a turnip???


Are you trying to teach vigilante justice to your children?? "Well son, even though they didn't find evidence that Johnny stole your crayons, we both know in our hearts that it was really him ... so let's go kick his a__!"

Once again, you know good and well that this isn't "vigilante justice". This is about teaching our children - nearly adults - how to behave, and to hold them accountable when they don't. This isn't about criminal charges, or innocent until proven guilty. This is about building character. And four guys having sex, consensual or otherwise, with one woman on camera is not behavior to be proud of.

If playing intercollegiate sports does not involve building character, then all such sports should be done away with immediately. They are of no value. I sure hope you are never in a position to teach or influence children if you think the behavior of these athletes is acceptable.

Maybe your standard of acceptable is whatever doesn't meet the threshold for criminal prosecution. I'd like to think most of us have higher standards than that.

Again, they have been indefinitely suspended from the football team, not kicked out of school. That is an important distinction.

Hope both the school and the players stick to their guns and Minnesota doesn't play the bowl game. Powerful campus values in collision here.

(12-16-2016 09:06 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Hope both the school and the players stick to their guns and Minnesota doesn't play the bowl game. Powerful campus values in collision here.

Powerful values:
Football and the right of players to rape and shoplift crablegs at will vs. the right of women to be safe from attack.

As a long time ND fan, I have seen a number of occasions when no criminal charges were filed but the school's Office of Student Life expelled or suspended the players in an administrative hearing for failure to conform to the school's code of conduct.

In 1974, ND expelled six players coming off a national championship, including star players Ross Browner and Luther Bradley for misconduct even though none were charged with a crime.

So, this does not seem all that unusual to me. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" standards for crimes and school standards or codes of conduct are not the same.


http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1974/...ll-players