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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Barber resigns
(12-20-2016 10:47 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-20-2016 09:38 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Gill took a Buffalo team that had done nothing up to his tenure and turned them around which landed him the Kansas job. At the time, Gill was THE hot up and coming coach. Kansas was viewed as lucky to get him. Gill tried to rebuild the program and took a long term approach and was fired after two seasons for Charlie Weis. It was a nationally a big deal that Liberty hired Turner Gill and he still was viewed as a big name that was unlucky in a place that is impossible to win. He was a big coup for Liberty at the time. Just listen to all the praise that non-Liberty announcers give during Liberty games.

I don't think Chadwell would be a high profile hire but he would be a great hire. He won't get mentioned on ESPN or anything like Gill was but he'd likely improve the football program. I'm surprised that he is still at Charleston Southern which makes me think he's got some baggage hidden that isn't good.

A name hire would start with Art Briles. The nation would go nuclear if Liberty did that. Other than Briles, Steve Sarkisian would be a big name but likely not "Liberty material." Al Golden probably carries some weight. Greg Schiano too. I doubt Liberty could get any of them to come (if they'd even want any) but they'd get the national attention.

Yes they would get publicity with those hires but the focus is winning. Art is a winner but y'all don't want that idc how good he is. Chadwell is a coach that would come in a compete right away and could have y'all primed for a shot at a title in 2-4 years.
Everyone seems to agree that Chadwell is a good coach, and at the time, a likely better coach than Gill. But Chadwell does not have the sizzle that LU likes to make with it hires. Again, good coach, but not high enough profile. With a new AD, LU will even more so want to get as high a visibility of a coach as they can. I like Chadwell as a coach but he has a very slim chance at LU. No one so far has spoken unfavorable about Chadwell and his coaching ability as he has been very successful so far.
12-21-2016 09:41 PM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Barber resigns
(12-21-2016 09:41 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(12-20-2016 10:47 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-20-2016 09:38 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Gill took a Buffalo team that had done nothing up to his tenure and turned them around which landed him the Kansas job. At the time, Gill was THE hot up and coming coach. Kansas was viewed as lucky to get him. Gill tried to rebuild the program and took a long term approach and was fired after two seasons for Charlie Weis. It was a nationally a big deal that Liberty hired Turner Gill and he still was viewed as a big name that was unlucky in a place that is impossible to win. He was a big coup for Liberty at the time. Just listen to all the praise that non-Liberty announcers give during Liberty games.

I don't think Chadwell would be a high profile hire but he would be a great hire. He won't get mentioned on ESPN or anything like Gill was but he'd likely improve the football program. I'm surprised that he is still at Charleston Southern which makes me think he's got some baggage hidden that isn't good.

A name hire would start with Art Briles. The nation would go nuclear if Liberty did that. Other than Briles, Steve Sarkisian would be a big name but likely not "Liberty material." Al Golden probably carries some weight. Greg Schiano too. I doubt Liberty could get any of them to come (if they'd even want any) but they'd get the national attention.

Yes they would get publicity with those hires but the focus is winning. Art is a winner but y'all don't want that idc how good he is. Chadwell is a coach that would come in a compete right away and could have y'all primed for a shot at a title in 2-4 years.
Everyone seems to agree that Chadwell is a good coach, and at the time, a likely better coach than Gill. But Chadwell does not have the sizzle that LU likes to make with it hires. Again, good coach, but not high enough profile. With a new AD, LU will even more so want to get as high a visibility of a coach as they can. I like Chadwell as a coach but he has a very slim chance at LU. No one so far has spoken unfavorable about Chadwell and his coaching ability as he has been very successful so far.

Personally this is why LU hasn't been as successful as they could be. Saying the school would pick a washed up coach from a P5 school over a coach currently killing the same conference you play in is ludicrous. I'm not saying y'all are saying he isn't a good coach but in order for y'all to get to where the vision is y'all have to change it up.
12-22-2016 07:51 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Barber resigns
(12-22-2016 07:51 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-21-2016 09:41 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(12-20-2016 10:47 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-20-2016 09:38 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Gill took a Buffalo team that had done nothing up to his tenure and turned them around which landed him the Kansas job. At the time, Gill was THE hot up and coming coach. Kansas was viewed as lucky to get him. Gill tried to rebuild the program and took a long term approach and was fired after two seasons for Charlie Weis. It was a nationally a big deal that Liberty hired Turner Gill and he still was viewed as a big name that was unlucky in a place that is impossible to win. He was a big coup for Liberty at the time. Just listen to all the praise that non-Liberty announcers give during Liberty games.

I don't think Chadwell would be a high profile hire but he would be a great hire. He won't get mentioned on ESPN or anything like Gill was but he'd likely improve the football program. I'm surprised that he is still at Charleston Southern which makes me think he's got some baggage hidden that isn't good.

A name hire would start with Art Briles. The nation would go nuclear if Liberty did that. Other than Briles, Steve Sarkisian would be a big name but likely not "Liberty material." Al Golden probably carries some weight. Greg Schiano too. I doubt Liberty could get any of them to come (if they'd even want any) but they'd get the national attention.

Yes they would get publicity with those hires but the focus is winning. Art is a winner but y'all don't want that idc how good he is. Chadwell is a coach that would come in a compete right away and could have y'all primed for a shot at a title in 2-4 years.
Everyone seems to agree that Chadwell is a good coach, and at the time, a likely better coach than Gill. But Chadwell does not have the sizzle that LU likes to make with it hires. Again, good coach, but not high enough profile. With a new AD, LU will even more so want to get as high a visibility of a coach as they can. I like Chadwell as a coach but he has a very slim chance at LU. No one so far has spoken unfavorable about Chadwell and his coaching ability as he has been very successful so far.

Personally this is why LU hasn't been as successful as they could be. Saying the school would pick a washed up coach from a P5 school over a coach currently killing the same conference you play in is ludicrous. I'm not saying y'all are saying he isn't a good coach but in order for y'all to get to where the vision is y'all have to change it up.
EWG, one can look back on the actions and inactions of LU and why the program has not been more successful. There is no disagreement that LU has made buffoonery mistakes and statements in the past that has hampered the development of the program. LU is not alone as other schools have also made poor choice, or taken no action that has shackled or hampered the progression of the athletic program. LU is a different athletic animal. It is safe to say no other collegiate program is like LU, for better or worse. I have run the gamut from elation with athletic success to total frustration with unwise statements and actions by the admins. But since LU's inception, I have followed the athletic program solely as a fan and not as a member of TRBC or the school. Just a fan.

In this discussion of is it better to hire a lesser known, but quality coach to revive the program, versus LU making the dollars available to hire a high ranking FBS assistant or even a previous FBS head coach, I agree with the LU admins. Everyone in this thread has spoken highly of Chadwell. He has an upside. But he is not the best hire for LU. One has to take perception in consideration with LU more than any other school. If merit alone was the determining factor, Chadwell would be a strong candidate.

So to say, Personally this is why LU hasn't been as successful as they could be is to easy an explanation of why LU has not be more more successful. I appreciate your strong support for Chadwell as you have beaten his drum loudly.
12-22-2016 09:16 AM
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army56mike Offline
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Post: #44
Barber resigns
Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2016 02:07 AM by army56mike.)
12-23-2016 02:06 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 02:06 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.

Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.
12-23-2016 08:47 AM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 08:47 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 02:06 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.

Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.

We don't need wins. Wins would be nice and welcomed but not needed. Seems like it's forgotten how some schools went from no FB program to FCS Independent for
1 year then FBS. FBS is about money and politics.
12-23-2016 09:57 AM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 09:57 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 08:47 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 02:06 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.

Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.

We don't need wins. Wins would be nice and welcomed but not needed. Seems like it's forgotten how some schools went from no FB program to FCS Independent for
1 year then FBS. FBS is about money and politics.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Winning would provide no excuses for FBS conferences to reject Liberty and give them the sympathy to move up. As a 6-5 team who made the playoffs once, there is no such sympathy. Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. As long as we are average then nobody will want us despite our money.
12-23-2016 10:05 AM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 10:05 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 09:57 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 08:47 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 02:06 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.

Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.

We don't need wins. Wins would be nice and welcomed but not needed. Seems like it's forgotten how some schools went from no FB program to FCS Independent for
1 year then FBS. FBS is about money and politics.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Winning would provide no excuses for FBS conferences to reject Liberty and give them the sympathy to move up. As a 6-5 team who made the playoffs once, there is no such sympathy. Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. As long as we are average then nobody will want us despite our money.
So Coach Sam, and McKay and Dot Richardson were not big name hires?

"Richardson is considered one of the most decorated collegiate, national and international players in softball history. She helped Team USA win Olympic gold in Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney in 2000, hitting the game-winning home run in the gold medal game in 1996." from http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?...3&TeamID=2

Coach Sam everyone knows.

McKay did come as the Assistant HC from an ACC school and was a previous HC at LU and other schools.

Does everyone believe that the new AD's hire in FB is going to be a FCS coach such as Chadwell? I don't think so. I believe he will think the faster way to accelerate the program is with a high profile HC, an expansion of Williams Stadium, and a strong push to sign the skill player(s) (QB, RB) that other peer players will want to play with.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Money is a consideration, but to say that is the reason LU did not receive an SBC invite because of that, gives no credence to the multitude of bad/improper/unwise actions, statements and inactions of the past and how that has branded LU as unappealing and unacceptable, except only to the LU faithful.

Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. Those schools are appealing because they win and they have a strong, appealing perception. Would a 11-0 LU team be more appealing? Of course, but unlike NDS and MS, LU would still be perceived, because of the past, as the prettiest girl at the prom who no one wants to dance with.

If I'm wrong that the new AD will let Gil's contract expire and then hire his guy, someone from as an assistant from a P5 school or someone such as Golden formerly from the UofM, then I'll admit I am wrong. Time will tell and I'll bet the inclination is the high profile hire rather than the successful FCS coach.
12-23-2016 11:22 AM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 11:22 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 10:05 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 09:57 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 08:47 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 02:06 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Why is it assumed LU wants to make a high profile hire? Has the admin suggested this. I know Gill was a high profile hire, but Rocko wasn't such a big hire was he? I think if/when the day comes, they will hire the best coach.

Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.

We don't need wins. Wins would be nice and welcomed but not needed. Seems like it's forgotten how some schools went from no FB program to FCS Independent for
1 year then FBS. FBS is about money and politics.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Winning would provide no excuses for FBS conferences to reject Liberty and give them the sympathy to move up. As a 6-5 team who made the playoffs once, there is no such sympathy. Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. As long as we are average then nobody will want us despite our money.
So Coach Sam, and McKay and Dot Richardson were not big name hires?

"Richardson is considered one of the most decorated collegiate, national and international players in softball history. She helped Team USA win Olympic gold in Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney in 2000, hitting the game-winning home run in the gold medal game in 1996." from http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?...3&TeamID=2

Coach Sam everyone knows.

McKay did come as the Assistant HC from an ACC school and was a previous HC at LU and other schools.

Does everyone believe that the new AD's hire in FB is going to be a FCS coach such as Chadwell? I don't think so. I believe he will think the faster way to accelerate the program is with a high profile HC, an expansion of Williams Stadium, and a strong push to sign the skill player(s) (QB, RB) that other peer players will want to play with.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Money is a consideration, but to say that is the reason LU did not receive an SBC invite because of that, gives no credence to the multitude of bad/improper/unwise actions, statements and inactions of the past and how that has branded LU as unappealing and unacceptable, except only to the LU faithful.

Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. Those schools are appealing because they win and they have a strong, appealing perception. Would a 11-0 LU team be more appealing? Of course, but unlike NDS and MS, LU would still be perceived, because of the past, as the prettiest girl at the prom who no one wants to dance with.

If I'm wrong that the new AD will let Gil's contract expire and then hire his guy, someone from as an assistant from a P5 school or someone such as Golden formerly from the UofM, then I'll admit I am wrong. Time will tell and I'll bet the inclination is the high profile hire rather than the successful FCS coach.

I just don't agree with the "High Profile" statement. What makes a coordinator at a P5 school higher profile than a coach who has won his conference pretty much since he took the job and has been linked to nearly every G5 job opening. It would make a statement that LU has the power to lure good coaches away from successful schools.
12-23-2016 12:13 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 12:13 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 11:22 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 10:05 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 09:57 AM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(12-23-2016 08:47 AM)GE and MTS Wrote:  Yeah I don't get the high profile talk either. Liberty wants to go FBS and they need wins to do it, not names. Rocco wasn't a name, McKay wasn't a name either time, Lawyer wasn't a name. Gill was a name and also a hot commodity.

We don't need wins. Wins would be nice and welcomed but not needed. Seems like it's forgotten how some schools went from no FB program to FCS Independent for
1 year then FBS. FBS is about money and politics.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Winning would provide no excuses for FBS conferences to reject Liberty and give them the sympathy to move up. As a 6-5 team who made the playoffs once, there is no such sympathy. Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. As long as we are average then nobody will want us despite our money.
So Coach Sam, and McKay and Dot Richardson were not big name hires?

"Richardson is considered one of the most decorated collegiate, national and international players in softball history. She helped Team USA win Olympic gold in Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney in 2000, hitting the game-winning home run in the gold medal game in 1996." from http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?...3&TeamID=2

Coach Sam everyone knows.

McKay did come as the Assistant HC from an ACC school and was a previous HC at LU and other schools.

Does everyone believe that the new AD's hire in FB is going to be a FCS coach such as Chadwell? I don't think so. I believe he will think the faster way to accelerate the program is with a high profile HC, an expansion of Williams Stadium, and a strong push to sign the skill player(s) (QB, RB) that other peer players will want to play with.

Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Money is a consideration, but to say that is the reason LU did not receive an SBC invite because of that, gives no credence to the multitude of bad/improper/unwise actions, statements and inactions of the past and how that has branded LU as unappealing and unacceptable, except only to the LU faithful.

Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. Those schools are appealing because they win and they have a strong, appealing perception. Would a 11-0 LU team be more appealing? Of course, but unlike NDS and MS, LU would still be perceived, because of the past, as the prettiest girl at the prom who no one wants to dance with.

If I'm wrong that the new AD will let Gil's contract expire and then hire his guy, someone from as an assistant from a P5 school or someone such as Golden formerly from the UofM, then I'll admit I am wrong. Time will tell and I'll bet the inclination is the high profile hire rather than the successful FCS coach.

I just don't agree with the "High Profile" statement. What makes a coordinator at a P5 school higher profile than a coach who has won his conference pretty much since he took the job and has been linked to nearly every G5 job opening. It would make a statement that LU has the power to lure good coaches away from successful schools.
It's good to civil discourse with various opinions with agreement and non agreement. You have made valid points and a contribution here. I hope you continue to contribute. Let's just agree that we disagree as time will provide the answer.
12-23-2016 12:17 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Barber resigns
(12-23-2016 11:22 AM)NewTimes Wrote:  So Coach Sam, and McKay and Dot Richardson were not big name hires?

"Richardson is considered one of the most decorated collegiate, national and international players in softball history. She helped Team USA win Olympic gold in Atlanta in 1996 and Sydney in 2000, hitting the game-winning home run in the gold medal game in 1996." from http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm?...3&TeamID=2

Coach Sam everyone knows.

McKay did come as the Assistant HC from an ACC school and was a previous HC at LU and other schools.

Does everyone believe that the new AD's hire in FB is going to be a FCS coach such as Chadwell? I don't think so. I believe he will think the faster way to accelerate the program is with a high profile HC, an expansion of Williams Stadium, and a strong push to sign the skill player(s) (QB, RB) that other peer players will want to play with.

Sam was a big hire (and almost 30 years ago) and so was Gill. Richardson was a big hire in a sport nobody cares about.

McKay was not a big hire. He was a head coach at mid-major schools while not accomplishing much before coming to Liberty. Then he left to be an assistant coach, a clear downgrade, before coming back to Liberty.

Chadwell is a proven coach who gets results, much better than our current coach with much less resources. Who cares if that isn't mentioned on the bottom line of ESPN? It will be once Liberty starts winning and making the FCS playoffs. Then an FBS school will hire him away and make positive news for Liberty for a change. Liberty can spin it that they hired a big time FCS coach rather than a failed FBS coach who is dropping down a level who has a big name.

Do you think recruits wouldn't sign up to play for a good football coach? How do you think they are a good coach to begin with? We're losing fan interest even with a name coach right now and we won't build onto Williams Stadium until we go FBS per Jerry Jr.

Quote:Liberty has money which is one of the reasons they didn't get invited to the Sun Belt. Money is a consideration, but to say that is the reason LU did not receive an SBC invite because of that, gives no credence to the multitude of bad/improper/unwise actions, statements and inactions of the past and how that has branded LU as unappealing and unacceptable, except only to the LU faithful.

I didn't say it was the reason, I said it was a reason. The Sun Belt didn't like Liberty because we were private (can't change that), had a lot of money and was willing to outspend the rest of the poor conference (stupid logic on the Sun Belt's part), have a significant online presence (won't change that), and are conservative (won't change that). There are other things but I am pretty sure that is the majority of it.

Quote: Everyone wants North Dakota State to move up because they win. Same with the Montana schools. Those schools are appealing because they win and they have a strong, appealing perception. Would a 11-0 LU team be more appealing? Of course, but unlike NDS and MS, LU would still be perceived, because of the past, as the prettiest girl at the prom who no one wants to dance with.

If Liberty had half the history as those schools, and schools like App State and Georgia Southern, then Liberty would have a much better argument for discrimination than they currently do. FBS conferences can use Liberty's lack of success as a reason to not invite them and it's valid. Until Liberty takes away that by winning, making the March Madness tournament, College World Series, and FCS playoffs, then the FBS is justified in keeping Liberty down based on performance despite Liberty's willingness to compete at a higher level.
12-23-2016 03:35 PM
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GE and MTS Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Barber resigns
http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...uments-say

Not a good look for Liberty. Guess they should have done a little more homework on McCaw. Is it too late to fire him or is Jerry Jr. too busy working with President Trump to worry about Liberty?
02-02-2017 09:28 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Barber resigns
(02-02-2017 09:28 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...uments-say

Not a good look for Liberty. Guess they should have done a little more homework on McCaw. Is it too late to fire him or is Jerry Jr. too busy working with President Trump to worry about Liberty?
Jerry Jr. is the reason that I 1) resigned as a Mod for this Liberty board, 2) withdrew my financial support as a Flames Club member, 3) did not renew my Flames Club membership, 4) have tempered my interest as I am conflicted wanting the athletics of LU to continue to develop and trying to resolve how to do it with the McBig Super Sized Ego of JFJr, and how it has hampered LU. One would have thought he would have learned from JFSr. and the mistakes he made and been wiser. Unfortunately that is not the case.
02-04-2017 08:37 AM
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