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Post: #8601
RE: Trump Administration
08-07-2019 11:02 AM
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Post: #8602
RE: Trump Administration
Bad news for liberals - the movie about hunting deplorables will be delayed.

The Hunt" follows 12 conservatives who discover they have been kidnapped and brought to The Manor, a hunting ground where liberal billionaires pay top dollar to hunt them for sport.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/un...li=BBnbfcL
(This post was last modified: 08-10-2019 10:45 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-10-2019 10:40 PM
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Post: #8603
RE: Trump Administration
Treat immogration like a job interview

"When technical qualifications and cultural fit are suggested as elements of immigration policy, adversarial reactions far surpass the typical reflexive and groundless accusations of racism routinely hurled against conservatives. Indeed, the hysteria in such circumstances is reminiscent of the scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” in which the Ark of the Covenant is opened, and the faces of Nazis melt right off."
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 01:07 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-14-2019 01:05 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Offline
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Post: #8604
RE: Trump Administration
(08-14-2019 01:05 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Treat immogration like a job interview

"When technical qualifications and cultural fit are suggested as elements of immigration policy, adversarial reactions far surpass the typical reflexive and groundless accusations of racism routinely hurled against conservatives. Indeed, the hysteria in such circumstances is reminiscent of the scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” in which the Ark of the Covenant is opened, and the faces of Nazis melt right off."

Another good opportunity for the U.S. to reform some of its laws / policies based on how other countries operate - see Canada, which unlike the US, actually has an immigration policy that is relatively quick and is designed to allow immigrants that are going to add to the country (points-based system).

https://time.com/5634351/canada-high-ski...mmigrants/
(This post was last modified: 08-14-2019 03:42 PM by westsidewolf1989.)
08-14-2019 03:41 PM
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Post: #8605
RE: Trump Administration
(08-14-2019 03:41 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:05 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Treat immogration like a job interview
"When technical qualifications and cultural fit are suggested as elements of immigration policy, adversarial reactions far surpass the typical reflexive and groundless accusations of racism routinely hurled against conservatives. Indeed, the hysteria in such circumstances is reminiscent of the scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” in which the Ark of the Covenant is opened, and the faces of Nazis melt right off."
Another good opportunity for the U.S. to reform some of its laws / policies based on how other countries operate - see Canada, which unlike the US, actually has an immigration policy that is relatively quick and is designed to allow immigrants that are going to add to the country (points-based system).
https://time.com/5634351/canada-high-ski...mmigrants/

I think Canda's law would be a good starting point for developing a rational US immigration policy. The problem that we have is that we haven't had a logical or rational policy for so long that it has become almost an "anything goes" situation that satisfies nobody.
08-14-2019 03:59 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #8606
RE: Trump Administration
Police union rips Warren

Trump is often accused of using divisive rhetoric. Are these tweets by Warren and Harris not divisive?

Trump is often accused of lying. Are these tweets not lies?

Is the pot as black as the kettle?

No. The pot is much, much blacker. The kettle says so.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 09:15 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-16-2019 08:00 AM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #8607
RE: Trump Administration
(08-14-2019 03:59 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 03:41 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:05 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Treat immogration like a job interview
"When technical qualifications and cultural fit are suggested as elements of immigration policy, adversarial reactions far surpass the typical reflexive and groundless accusations of racism routinely hurled against conservatives. Indeed, the hysteria in such circumstances is reminiscent of the scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” in which the Ark of the Covenant is opened, and the faces of Nazis melt right off."
Another good opportunity for the U.S. to reform some of its laws / policies based on how other countries operate - see Canada, which unlike the US, actually has an immigration policy that is relatively quick and is designed to allow immigrants that are going to add to the country (points-based system).
https://time.com/5634351/canada-high-ski...mmigrants/

I think Canda's law would be a good starting point for developing a rational US immigration policy. The problem that we have is that we haven't had a logical or rational policy for so long that it has become almost an "anything goes" situation that satisfies nobody.

Canada, quite simply, could have any immigration policy they feel like having because enforcement is never going to be a problem for them. There is for all practical purposes no access to Canada except through airports, which are easily controlled. There is easy access across their southern border of course but on the south side of that border happens to be a country with even greater attractiveness to people; indeed, the most attractive country on this planet, ever.

The problem is that the unique historical experience of this country involved "open borders" migration. There is a fundamental American unease, then, with *enforcing* any sort of immigration restriction, and I'm not sure how we ever reconcile that. Hell, I'm a law-and-order conservative but I do personally know people in this country illegally and I would never turn them in. I was lucky to be born here and the whole idea of telling someone who simply wasn't so lucky "too bad, so sad" is anathema to the American DNA, it seems to me. I think we should enforce the laws we have but I could live with going back to the "not likely to become a public charge" standard, with no quotas or caps. Or maybe we just make it very easy to become a tax-paying permanent resident or guest worker but with limited access to social services and a long wait to become a voting citizen, although that doesn't strike me as very societally healthy in the long run.
08-16-2019 01:18 PM
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Post: #8608
RE: Trump Administration
(08-16-2019 01:18 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 03:59 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 03:41 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 01:05 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Treat immogration like a job interview
"When technical qualifications and cultural fit are suggested as elements of immigration policy, adversarial reactions far surpass the typical reflexive and groundless accusations of racism routinely hurled against conservatives. Indeed, the hysteria in such circumstances is reminiscent of the scene in “Raiders of the Lost Ark” in which the Ark of the Covenant is opened, and the faces of Nazis melt right off."
Another good opportunity for the U.S. to reform some of its laws / policies based on how other countries operate - see Canada, which unlike the US, actually has an immigration policy that is relatively quick and is designed to allow immigrants that are going to add to the country (points-based system).
https://time.com/5634351/canada-high-ski...mmigrants/

I think Canda's law would be a good starting point for developing a rational US immigration policy. The problem that we have is that we haven't had a logical or rational policy for so long that it has become almost an "anything goes" situation that satisfies nobody.

Canada, quite simply, could have any immigration policy they feel like having because enforcement is never going to be a problem for them. There is for all practical purposes no access to Canada except through airports, which are easily controlled. There is easy access across their southern border of course but on the south side of that border happens to be a country with even greater attractiveness to people; indeed, the most attractive country on this planet, ever.

The problem is that the unique historical experience of this country involved "open borders" migration. There is a fundamental American unease, then, with *enforcing* any sort of immigration restriction, and I'm not sure how we ever reconcile that. Hell, I'm a law-and-order conservative but I do personally know people in this country illegally and I would never turn them in. I was lucky to be born here and the whole idea of telling someone who simply wasn't so lucky "too bad, so sad" is anathema to the American DNA, it seems to me. I think we should enforce the laws we have but I could live with going back to the "not likely to become a public charge" standard, with no quotas or caps. Or maybe we just make it very easy to become a tax-paying permanent resident or guest worker but with limited access to social services and a long wait to become a voting citizen, although that doesn't strike me as very societally healthy in the long run.

The should be no automatic conferral of citizenship without the applicant going through the naturalization process.

The first thing I would change is to eliminate the automatic citizenship by birth. I would limit it to those who have at least one parent who is an American citizen. Make that change and watch the Democratic party lose interest in immigration.

Make it easy to be a guest worker but require the filing of a 1040 and the withholding of 20% from wages, with big penalties for the employers. They will file for the refund.

Make the guest worker status one year at a time, but renewable.

A 60 day amnesty for those here now to either get the guest worker cards or to apply for citizenship.

Then zero tolerance.
08-16-2019 01:58 PM
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Post: #8609
RE: Trump Administration
Watching guests on Jake Tapper argue about tariffs this morning, I remarked to my GF that they were both right.

Yes, the cost is passed on to the american consumer, just like taxes or environmental regulation costs. All costs are passed on to the consumer.

But let's take a hypothetical example from my past. Say I am importing certain products from mexico, and the average shipment comes to $40K. Now a 25% tariff is passed, and the price of my shipment comes to $50K. My customer passes the cost on to his customer, and so on down to the ultimate consumer of the goods. True, but this is where the liberal commentators stop with their analysis. But the process continues after that cutoff.

What happens after that, is that my customer looks for cheaper sources, and finds a company in Arkansas that will supply the same stuff for $43K. Before he was losing to my $40K, now he is beating my $50K. The customer switches to the cheaper local provider. Good news for the Americans. Bad news for the Mexicans

Now substitute China for Mexico in the example.

Bottom line, the foreign provider loses the business, the domestic provider gets it.

You need to follow the dominoes to the end.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 12:11 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-19-2019 12:08 AM
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Post: #8610
RE: Trump Administration
I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."
08-19-2019 07:52 AM
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Post: #8611
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.
08-19-2019 08:12 AM
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Post: #8612
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 08:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.

That's a fair point.

In terms of the first quote though, I don't believe we've ever had a president this vocal in his criticism of a Fed chair. If Jerome Powell doesn't strike the right tone Thursday with his remarks at Jackson Hole, the stock market is going to tumble. Both Trump and the stock market are making his job very difficult.
08-19-2019 08:41 AM
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Post: #8613
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 08:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.

I like Yang, too, as the best of a bad lot. I liked Hickkenlooper as well, but look what the Dems did to him.

Does owning stock include owning mutual funds?

The president does not control economic growth in the same way that,, say, that the Democrats said that Bush 43 controlled gasoline prices (putting money into the pockets of his rich friends).

But some actions do influence economic growth. Cutting taxes and reducing regulations are among those. The stock market started rising the day after the election[. Clearly the brand-new President elect had had no time to do anything, effectual or not. It rose on the expectation of what he would do. It was investors showing they expected the businesses on the stock exchange to do better under Trump than they had expected them to do under Clinton.

Amusing, isn't it, that same people who want to credit Obama with economic growth want to deny that the president has anything to do with it if his name is Trump?
08-19-2019 09:31 AM
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Post: #8614
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 08:41 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 08:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.

That's a fair point.

In terms of the first quote though, I don't believe we've ever had a president this vocal in his criticism of a Fed chair. If Jerome Powell doesn't strike the right tone Thursday with his remarks at Jackson Hole, the stock market is going to tumble. Both Trump and the stock market are making his job very difficult.
NY Times article from Feb. last year that addressed the ownership % v. participation rates:
who owns stocks
Interesting mention at the end how all of the world's economies were expanding in tandem.
08-19-2019 09:38 AM
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Post: #8615
RE: Trump Administration
What are we worrying about? Let it burn. Let it go to nothing. BFD.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 09:48 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
08-19-2019 09:46 AM
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Post: #8616
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 08:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.

I don't think that the % of ownership goes up significantly for indirect ownership through 401(ks) or even pensions/other retirement programs.

For example, 1/3 of full time workers have no access to retirement plans and only 44% of part-time workers do. (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-an...-savings).

Do you have any numbers that specifically reference both direct and the in-direct (through retirement plans) ownership?
08-19-2019 09:49 AM
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Post: #8617
RE: Trump Administration
The stock market is one indicator of economic activity and economic health. Like temperature is one indicator of physical health.

So take a a look at all the other indicators, and tell me if you see a healthy body getting healthier, or a sick one getting sicker. Unemployment rate is down, employment is up, jobs are up, wages are up, consumer spending is up, yada, yada, yada.

I believed in lower taxes and less regulation long before 11-8-16. The last three years are just proof that I was right.

Why do leftists hate economic prosperity so much? One I know clapped her hands on the news of the 800 point drop. Made her happy that this was a black eye for Trump. And she is one of the ones who own stock.
08-19-2019 10:00 AM
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Post: #8618
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The stock market is one indicator of economic activity and economic health. Like temperature is one indicator of physical health.

So take a a look at all the other indicators, and tell me if you see a healthy body getting healthier, or a sick one getting sicker. Unemployment rate is down, employment is up, jobs are up, wages are up, consumer spending is up, yada, yada, yada.

I believed in lower taxes and less regulation long before 11-8-16. The last three years are just proof that I was right.

Why do leftists hate economic prosperity so much? One I know clapped her hands on the news of the 800 point drop. Made her happy that this was a black eye for Trump. And she is one of the ones who own stock.

Do you also ask when your friends when they stopped beating their wives? What a loaded question.

The issue we're discussing here is whether or not the signs of a healthy economy are being felt by all Americans. Are we seeing the rising tide raise all boats, or only the boats of certain individuals?

You're right that companies are going to react happily to lower taxes and regulations - but does that mean there is a net benefit to the actions? Because we don't live in a vacuum, cutting regulations can result in unintended consequences, which is often why a certain regulation was put in place to begin with. On the flip side, just because a regulation is in place, doesn't mean it should be sacred and off limits.
08-19-2019 10:07 AM
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Post: #8619
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 09:49 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 08:12 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 07:52 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I continue to like Andrew Yang. Two tweets from him this morning.

"Donald Trump seems to be betting his presidency on continued economic strength and stock market prices. That’s unwise on several levels. If the President could control economic growth we would never have a recession."

"Only half of Americans own stock and the bottom 80% own only 8% of stock market wealth. The stock market in particular is a terrible proxy for American well-being."

He might be correct for *direct* ownership.

But the comment would apparently be overlooking the combined amounts of 401k and retirement programs.

They are astoundingly large.

I don't think that the % of ownership goes up significantly for indirect ownership through 401(ks) or even pensions/other retirement programs.

For example, 1/3 of full time workers have no access to retirement plans and only 44% of part-time workers do. (https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-an...-savings).

Do you have any numbers that specifically reference both direct and the in-direct (through retirement plans) ownership?

Just noting that the the whine about the 8% seems to be highly related to institutional ownership. Seemed to be a screed about 'disparity' and 'fairness' that seem to the be progressive bible these days.

And, when one realizes that the vast majority of the institutional investors are investing specifically for the working class pensions, that 8% direct ownership probably translates to probably a majority of the market when including both direct and indirect ownership/benefit.

Just look at the astounding sizes of places like CalPERS, CalSTRS, TRS to name a portion of only two states. That is without including 401s, SEPS, union pensions, and any Federal pension systems that are not union-based. When you look at the sizes of institutional retirement systems en toto, the amount that is owned for the benefit of the bottom 80% rises absolutely dramatically.
08-19-2019 10:38 AM
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Post: #8620
RE: Trump Administration
(08-19-2019 10:07 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 10:00 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  The stock market is one indicator of economic activity and economic health. Like temperature is one indicator of physical health.

So take a a look at all the other indicators, and tell me if you see a healthy body getting healthier, or a sick one getting sicker. Unemployment rate is down, employment is up, jobs are up, wages are up, consumer spending is up, yada, yada, yada.

I believed in lower taxes and less regulation long before 11-8-16. The last three years are just proof that I was right.

Why do leftists hate economic prosperity so much? One I know clapped her hands on the news of the 800 point drop. Made her happy that this was a black eye for Trump. And she is one of the ones who own stock.

Do you also ask when your friends when they stopped beating their wives? What a loaded question.

The issue we're discussing here is whether or not the signs of a healthy economy are being felt by all Americans. Are we seeing the rising tide raise all boats, or only the boats of certain individuals?

You're right that companies are going to react happily to lower taxes and regulations - but does that mean there is a net benefit to the actions? Because we don't live in a vacuum, cutting regulations can result in unintended consequences, which is often why a certain regulation was put in place to begin with. On the flip side, just because a regulation is in place, doesn't mean it should be sacred and off limits.

Would you agree that it is seemingly only leftists are hoping for economic negativity at the present?

Part of the question of 'affecting how much of America' is 'who is rooting for such a hurt to take place, but only prior to next November'. That is a major difference between the sides of the debate. There are overt calls and hopes for such a slowdown from the left; even in the days of recovery prior to 2012 I dont think I ever heard any right-leaning person *ever* hope for such an economic reversal that would stick it in the shorts of their political opponent.

And, to be blunt, it fits right into their 'you dont need that much' and 'fairness' mantra that is the bedrock of their message for the last 30 years.
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 10:45 AM by tanqtonic.)
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