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I45owl Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Trump Administration
(11-22-2016 12:14 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Had Hillary won, I honestly think she would be working right now on having another private server set up. The woman just can't help herself. And had she won, she would have seen her election as the ultimate vindication of her methods, giving her carte blanche to keep at it. Or, if it wasn't some new illegality committed as president, a full excavation of what she's already done through the Clinton Foundation ultimately would have done her in. She had better hope that Obama not only pardons her but that the pardon is sweepingly phrased. (Actually, she's not the type to sit around and just hope for it. She'll find a way to purchase it.)

I actually think one of Trump's first acts should be to pardon HRC.

(11-22-2016 12:14 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Trump is the ultimate RINO; Pence is the real deal. Trump has no true friends in Congress, only temporary allies of convenience. There is no basis for loyalty whatsoever.

I'm not up on the Machiavellian twists and turns that it would really take to push an agenda through a divided and split congress, but I had wondered if Trump may be better served by taking up some of the Democratic agenda where feasible. He might then be able to push through part of his agenda where Republicans may not like it (sadly, free trade may be such an example) and others where he doesn't need Democratic support. Not being beholden to the Republican Party might serve his agenda well in some cases, even though the Democrats despise him.

Interestingly, the Cato institute and Koch brothers seem to be the big winners in the nominations thus far, in spite of the fact that the Koch brothers withdrew sponsorship from the Republican Convention when Trump solidified the nomination.
11-24-2016 08:45 AM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Trump Administration
(11-24-2016 08:45 AM)I45owl Wrote:  
(11-22-2016 12:14 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Had Hillary won, I honestly think she would be working right now on having another private server set up. The woman just can't help herself. And had she won, she would have seen her election as the ultimate vindication of her methods, giving her carte blanche to keep at it. Or, if it wasn't some new illegality committed as president, a full excavation of what she's already done through the Clinton Foundation ultimately would have done her in. She had better hope that Obama not only pardons her but that the pardon is sweepingly phrased. (Actually, she's not the type to sit around and just hope for it. She'll find a way to purchase it.)

I actually think one of Trump's first acts should be to pardon HRC.

(11-22-2016 12:14 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Trump is the ultimate RINO; Pence is the real deal. Trump has no true friends in Congress, only temporary allies of convenience. There is no basis for loyalty whatsoever.

I'm not up on the Machiavellian twists and turns that it would really take to push an agenda through a divided and split congress, but I had wondered if Trump may be better served by taking up some of the Democratic agenda where feasible. He might then be able to push through part of his agenda where Republicans may not like it (sadly, free trade may be such an example) and others where he doesn't need Democratic support. Not being beholden to the Republican Party might serve his agenda well in some cases, even though the Democrats despise him.

Interestingly, the Cato institute and Koch brothers seem to be the big winners in the nominations thus far, in spite of the fact that the Koch brothers withdrew sponsorship from the Republican Convention when Trump solidified the nomination.

A few of Trump's main policy objectives (if the doesn't move away from them) are decidedly un-Republican or even Democratic. One big ticket item he ran on was implementing a massive infrastructure investment without providing any sort of spending offset/revenue hike to pay for it. Another that comes to mind is the tax plan that is not coupled with decreased spending and will 100% increase the deficit, which has been steadily shrinking.

I think the first item is something Dems can, and should, get behind if he decides to pursue it, but push for a revenue increase to fund it (IMO). The second, I don't think Reps will even get behind it unless it can be shown to, at a minimum, not increase the deficit.
11-24-2016 10:25 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Trump Administration
(11-24-2016 10:25 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  A few of Trump's main policy objectives (if the doesn't move away from them) are decidedly un-Republican or even Democratic. One big ticket item he ran on was implementing a massive infrastructure investment without providing any sort of spending offset/revenue hike to pay for it. Another that comes to mind is the tax plan that is not coupled with decreased spending and will 100% increase the deficit, which has been steadily shrinking.
I think the first item is something Dems can, and should, get behind if he decides to pursue it, but push for a revenue increase to fund it (IMO). The second, I don't think Reps will even get behind it unless it can be shown to, at a minimum, not increase the deficit.

I took a couple of those online, "Which candidate do you agree with?" polls, one where the answers were weighted and one where they were not. I got between 8% and 20% agreement with both Trump and Hillary on both polls, slightly higher for both on the unweighted one, with Hillary higher on the unweighted one and Trump on the other. Needless to say, from a policy standpoint I don't much care for either one.

One thing I will point out, if you look at the outyear forecasts in Obama's budget, the decrease in the deficit is very short-lived, and we'll be back over a trillion per year shortly, unless something is done. At some point, somebody is going to have to deal with it.

I don't really know how any of this is going to work. To be fair, I can't imagine that Hillary's proposals could possibly have worked, either.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2016 12:28 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-24-2016 12:27 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Trump Administration
(11-23-2016 02:52 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-23-2016 02:16 PM)JSA Wrote:  
(11-11-2016 06:15 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  When I first saw the title of this thread, my mind read it as "Truman Administration".
If only!

He wasn't a leftist big-city machine Democrat politician?
Would you really have supported Truman in 1948?

I'm not sure how I would have felt at the time. But looking back on just a few of his foreign policy achievements:
- the Marshall Plan
- NATO
- the Berlin Airlift
... I know that he did more for the free world, and at a more dangerous time, than most people ever dream of.

Perhaps typing in haste, I left out at least two other important achievements:
- the aid to Greece and Turkey
- the defense of South Korea

Those are five momentous decisions, and Harry Truman was five for five. If they had not been done, it is staggering to think how much smaller and weaker the free world would have been, and how much darker and deadlier the ensuing half-century.

In a sensible world, a record like that would have earned him the Nobel Peace Prize (I mean, compare that record to Barack Obama's in 2009). The prize did go to his Secretary of State, the great George Marshall, but Truman probably gets too little credit.
11-25-2016 12:21 PM
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JSA Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Trump Administration
(11-25-2016 12:21 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-23-2016 02:52 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-23-2016 02:16 PM)JSA Wrote:  
(11-11-2016 06:15 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  When I first saw the title of this thread, my mind read it as "Truman Administration".
If only!

He wasn't a leftist big-city machine Democrat politician?
Would you really have supported Truman in 1948?

I'm not sure how I would have felt at the time. But looking back on just a few of his foreign policy achievements:
- the Marshall Plan
- NATO
- the Berlin Airlift
... I know that he did more for the free world, and at a more dangerous time, than most people ever dream of.

Perhaps typing in haste, I left out at least two other important achievements:
- the aid to Greece and Turkey
- the defense of South Korea

Those are five momentous decisions, and Harry Truman was five for five. If they had not been done, it is staggering to think how much smaller and weaker the free world would have been, and how much darker and deadlier the ensuing half-century.

In a sensible world, a record like that would have earned him the Nobel Peace Prize (I mean, compare that record to Barack Obama's in 2009). The prize did go to his Secretary of State, the great George Marshall, but Truman probably gets too little credit.

Truman said it was surprising what you could accomplish if you didn't worry about who got the credit.
11-28-2016 09:44 AM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Trump Administration
(11-28-2016 09:44 AM)JSA Wrote:  Truman said it was surprising what you could accomplish if you didn't worry about who got the credit.

Hear, hear!
11-28-2016 11:32 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Trump Administration
(11-28-2016 11:32 AM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(11-28-2016 09:44 AM)JSA Wrote:  Truman said it was surprising what you could accomplish if you didn't worry about who got the credit.

Hear, hear!

That seems to be something that's completely lost on this generation of lead-from-behind politicians.
11-28-2016 10:55 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Trump Administration
Ben Carson to HUD. A physician (granted, a brilliant one, as he -- like any physician 05-stirthepot -- would be the first to let you know) with scant management experience will be running a large federal agency completely outside his area of expertise. Destined for incompetence and failure per this WaPo column) or will his brilliance will make him a quick study?

I do note that we once put someone who was brilliant (albeit with lots of management experience, including president of Ford Motor Company) in charge of a large federal agency fairly far outside his area of expertise and he turned out to be the longest-serving SecDef in history. (Views on his performance vary widely, of course, and probably can't really be separated from one's political views on the Vietnam War.)
12-06-2016 02:56 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Trump Administration
I'm waiting for the Sec of State pick. Secretly hoping that the person who ran about locking up a Secretary of State for carelessly handling sensitive material installs a person as Secretary of State who is currently on probation for intentionally providing sensitive material to someone else. So spicy.
12-06-2016 03:08 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Trump Administration
(12-06-2016 03:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'm waiting for the Sec of State pick. Secretly hoping that the person who ran about locking up a Secretary of State for carelessly handling sensitive material installs a person as Secretary of State who is currently on probation for intentionally providing sensitive material to someone else. So spicy.

Yes, but he did it to get laid, so it's OK.
12-06-2016 03:25 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Trump Administration
(12-06-2016 03:25 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 03:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'm waiting for the Sec of State pick. Secretly hoping that the person who ran about locking up a Secretary of State for carelessly handling sensitive material installs a person as Secretary of State who is currently on probation for intentionally providing sensitive material to someone else. So spicy.

Yes, but he did it to get laid, so it's OK.

My personal favorite item about this interaction I learned the other day. Patreus and Broadwell would use Gmail to communicate, but not by writing emails back and forth, but by accessing the same email accounts and drafting emails that the other would read and then delete.
12-06-2016 03:49 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Trump Administration
(12-06-2016 03:49 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 03:25 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  
(12-06-2016 03:08 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'm waiting for the Sec of State pick. Secretly hoping that the person who ran about locking up a Secretary of State for carelessly handling sensitive material installs a person as Secretary of State who is currently on probation for intentionally providing sensitive material to someone else. So spicy.

Yes, but he did it to get laid, so it's OK.

My personal favorite item about this interaction I learned the other day. Patreus and Broadwell would use Gmail to communicate, but not by writing emails back and forth, but by accessing the same email accounts and drafting emails that the other would read and then delete.

That is apparently also a communication method popular among terrorists. They (Petraeus and Broadwell) probably picked it up in the course of their jobs.
12-06-2016 04:33 PM
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westsidewolf1989 Online
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Post: #33
RE: Trump Administration
Trump heading to Army-Navy game.
12-06-2016 06:08 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Trump Administration
As bad as some of his other nominees are, I still think Flynn is the scariest. The dude really seems to have gone off the deep end the last few years. Did anyone see the tweet from his son (who has been involved with the transition team and was his dad's chief of staff)?

"Until #Pizzagate proven to be false, it'll remain a story. The left seems to forget #PodestaEmails and the many "coincidences" tied to it."

This in response to the shooting at the DC pizza parlor. For those not familiar, this is the crazy conspiracy theory that the Clintons are running a child sex-trafficking ring out of a DC pizzeria. People this crazy part of our national security apparatus is terrifying.

Couple that with things like Trump feeling the need to single out and attack *by name* a local union leader who criticized him. This is a guy who encouraged violence against protestors during the campaign. How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?
12-08-2016 11:06 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Trump Administration
(12-08-2016 11:06 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?

Call me when it happens.
12-08-2016 11:57 AM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Trump Administration
(12-08-2016 11:57 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 11:06 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?

Call me when it happens.

I don't think Room 101 has internet access.

Kidding mostly.

However, institutions and norms are both important in maintaining democracy. The more we let Trump get away with abolishing those norms, the shakier democracy becomes. Getting into a twitter war with a Broadway musical or the guy who portrays him on SNL (because SNL never makes fun of presidents, so unfair!) is comically buffoonish, but it still breaks down those norms. Falsely claiming that millions of Clinton's votes were fraudulent lays the groundwork for rejecting future election results.

What happens when a less buffoonish authoritarian demagogue gains power and is less constrained because of the norms Trump has destroyed?
12-08-2016 12:35 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Trump Administration
Regarding Flynn, America hating leftist Gen. Barry McCaffrey now opposes him:

“But I must admit,” McCaffrey said, “I’m now extremely uneasy about some of these tweets, which don’t sound so much as if they are political skullduggery, but instead border on being demented. So I think we need to look into this and sort our what’s going on here.”

“I think that we need to aggressively examine what was going on with Gen. Flynn and his son, dealing with these transparent, nearly demented tweets that were going out,” he continued. “I think it needs closer scrutiny.”
12-08-2016 12:36 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #38
RE: Trump Administration
(12-08-2016 11:06 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Couple that with things like Trump feeling the need to single out and attack *by name* a local union leader who criticized him.

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the head of the automakers (pre-bailout, post-inauguration) by name?

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the secured creditors of GM and Chrysler?

Not that I am saying that what Trump did was copacetic, but good god "tomayto tomahto"

Quote:This is a guy who encouraged violence against protestors during the campaign. How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?

Well.... perhaps you should review the Project Veritas undercover expose on Scott Foval and Robert Creamer's activities in conjunction with the DNC and Hillary (per their own words) relating to the same topics cited above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

Sorry for the snark, but I am continuously intrigued by the hypocritical lamentations of both sides given that their "boys" typically engage in roughly *exactly* the same typed of activities and stances complained about.

I find it just as disgusting that a President elect calls out the union boss by name as a sitting President calling out corporate management and secured creditors by name for the*exact* same reasons.

And I find the issues re: violence disgusting across both camps. Getting real tired of hearing one side is slush and the other side pure as the driven snow, when both engage in *exactly* the same activities.

To be blunt it really doesnt help to harp on issues that have exact duplicates on your side of the spectrum......
(This post was last modified: 12-08-2016 02:34 PM by tanqtonic.)
12-08-2016 02:32 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Trump Administration
(12-08-2016 02:32 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 11:06 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Couple that with things like Trump feeling the need to single out and attack *by name* a local union leader who criticized him.

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the head of the automakers (pre-bailout, post-inauguration) by name?

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the secured creditors of GM and Chrysler?

Not that I am saying that what Trump did was copacetic, but good god "tomayto tomahto"

Quote:This is a guy who encouraged violence against protestors during the campaign. How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?

Well.... perhaps you should review the Project Veritas undercover expose on Scott Foval and Robert Creamer's activities in conjunction with the DNC and Hillary (per their own words) relating to the same topics cited above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

Sorry for the snark, but I am continuously intrigued by the hypocritical lamentations of both sides given that their "boys" typically engage in roughly *exactly* the same typed of activities and stances complained about.

I find it just as disgusting that a President elect calls out the union boss by name as a sitting President calling out corporate management and secured creditors by name for the*exact* same reasons.

And I find the issues re: violence disgusting across both camps. Getting real tired of hearing one side is slush and the other side pure as the driven snow, when both engage in *exactly* the same activities.

To be blunt it really doesnt help to harp on issues that have exact duplicates on your side of the spectrum......

Puts together reasonable argument about both sides.

Cites Project Veritas.

Does not compute.

Sorry, but the moment someone tries to legitimize anything James O'Keeffe, who has been proven to be a complete fraud twice, is the moment that every other part of an argument attached to that point is delegitimized. Remind again what O-Keefe has done to make you believe that those videos are factual and actually contain information we should be concerned about? Because I have two video series about ACORN and Planned Parenthood that make me extremely skeptical.

But regarding the comparison of Trump and Obama, can you send me some links to the Obama actions you talk about? On the surface my only comment would be that there is inherently a difference between the CEO of a Fortune 500 company (ostensibly a public figure, at which time you do, unfortunately, start to lose some rights to privacy) and the head of a local union in Indiana. But I'd like to see the two instances so I could compare them.
12-08-2016 02:49 PM
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JustAnotherAustinOwl Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Trump Administration
(12-08-2016 02:32 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(12-08-2016 11:06 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  Couple that with things like Trump feeling the need to single out and attack *by name* a local union leader who criticized him.

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the head of the automakers (pre-bailout, post-inauguration) by name?

As opposed to Obama singling out and attacking the secured creditors of GM and Chrysler?

Not that I am saying that what Trump did was copacetic, but good god "tomayto tomahto"

Quote:This is a guy who encouraged violence against protestors during the campaign. How long until he starts using his power to suppress dissent?

Well.... perhaps you should review the Project Veritas undercover expose on Scott Foval and Robert Creamer's activities in conjunction with the DNC and Hillary (per their own words) relating to the same topics cited above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuJGHuIkzY

Sorry for the snark, but I am continuously intrigued by the hypocritical lamentations of both sides given that their "boys" typically engage in roughly *exactly* the same typed of activities and stances complained about.

I find it just as disgusting that a President elect calls out the union boss by name as a sitting President calling out corporate management and secured creditors by name for the*exact* same reasons.

And I find the issues re: violence disgusting across both camps. Getting real tired of hearing one side is slush and the other side pure as the driven snow, when both engage in *exactly* the same activities.

To be blunt it really doesnt help to harp on issues that have exact duplicates on your side of the spectrum......

Rice Lad made my point re: Project Veritas. I mean, seriously.

To the larger point, a president or presidential candidate criticizing a CEO is very much NOT the same as tweeting ad hominems at a private citizen. The latter, is in fact, pretty weird. I mean his second tweet was basically "I bet you're the reason all the jobs left!" I await his third "I know you are, but what am I?"

And the SNL stuff is again, just strange. Why is he fuming over SNL and tweeting about it? It's worrisome both because it seems like he's going to make Nixon and his "enemies list" seem balanced and well adjusted, and because he seems to think he's not allowed to be satirized.

But back to the violent incidents. Saying "both sides do it" and pretending like it's equal is BS. Show me the clips of Obama or Clinton saying telling supporters to "beat the crap out of" protestors, saying they "ought to be brought out on a stretcher" and offering to pay legal bills. Hell, show me the clips of OTHER REPUBLICANS doing that. Oh wait, there aren't any because what Trump has been doing is completely not normal. (Yes, I know Biden made some ridiculous comment about taking trump behind the barn.)

After no other election have I heard first or second hand stories of violence, threats, and harassment. (Meaning I either know the person or know someone who knows them.) Yet I am over a dozen after this election.
12-08-2016 03:27 PM
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