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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #3841
RE: Trump Administration
(05-16-2018 03:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  "If our leaders seek to conceal the truth and we as people become accepting of alternative realities that are no longer grounded in facts, then as an American people we are on a pathway to relinquishing our freedom," Tillerson said.
Alternative realities not grounded in facts...what a perfect description of the Russian collusion conspiracy theory, now known as the investigation into lying to the investigation.
I know some of you think he is talking about Trump, and he might be, but the words could just as easily fit a lot of other people - Comey, the FBI, et al.

Tillerson is a well educated person. I think he probably understands that leaders with an s is plural, and therefore it refers to numerous people. I'd pretty much apply his comments to everyone inside the Beltway.
05-17-2018 06:13 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3842
RE: Trump Administration
This is only a preliminary 'break' --- things like this can change drastically...

Report on contents of FBI IG report


Quote:IG Horowitz has found "reasonable grounds" for believing there has been a violation of federal criminal law in the FBI/DOJ's handling of the Clinton investigation/s and has referred his findings of potential criminal misconduct to Huber for possible criminal prosecution

Author is a former DC Bureau Chief for Investor Business Daily, which lends *some* credence to this. But some here have previously called IBD being a 'trash slanted source' (or somefink like that).... so take it for what you deem its worth to be.

With what I would assume the work the IG is putting into the Steele/collusion counterintelligence investigation, I would think that he is working double overtime. But one report down, perhaps another to go....
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2018 08:24 PM by tanqtonic.)
05-17-2018 07:53 PM
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flash3200 Offline
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Post: #3843
RE: Trump Administration
IBD is pretty annoyingly biased. Not that they spew fake news like others, but you can be assured that you will only hear a filtered set of facts.

It would be great to see someone involved in the Hillary debacle get prosecuted, but as always with the Clintons it will be the bagman that gets the punishment and not the original perpetrators.
05-17-2018 10:00 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3844
RE: Trump Administration
(05-17-2018 10:00 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  IBD is pretty annoyingly biased. Not that they spew fake news like others, but you can be assured that you will only hear a filtered set of facts.

It would be great to see someone involved in the Hillary debacle get prosecuted, but as always with the Clintons it will be the bagman that gets the punishment and not the original perpetrators.

They have the same level and direction of bias as WSJ. But for some that is alt-right territory.
05-18-2018 02:05 AM
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flash3200 Offline
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Post: #3845
RE: Trump Administration
(05-18-2018 02:05 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 10:00 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  IBD is pretty annoyingly biased. Not that they spew fake news like others, but you can be assured that you will only hear a filtered set of facts.

It would be great to see someone involved in the Hillary debacle get prosecuted, but as always with the Clintons it will be the bagman that gets the punishment and not the original perpetrators.

They have the same level and direction of bias as WSJ. But for some that is alt-right territory.

Interesting...I have WSJ in the middle. They appear to be the only outlet interested in sorting facts by relevance and not by congruence to a given ideology. I gave up on IBD a year or two ago with their overt pandering to failed big government republicans.
05-18-2018 09:05 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3846
RE: Trump Administration
(05-18-2018 09:05 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  
(05-18-2018 02:05 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 10:00 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  IBD is pretty annoyingly biased. Not that they spew fake news like others, but you can be assured that you will only hear a filtered set of facts.

It would be great to see someone involved in the Hillary debacle get prosecuted, but as always with the Clintons it will be the bagman that gets the punishment and not the original perpetrators.

They have the same level and direction of bias as WSJ. But for some that is alt-right territory.

Interesting...I have WSJ in the middle. They appear to be the only outlet interested in sorting facts by relevance and not by congruence to a given ideology. I gave up on IBD a year or two ago with their overt pandering to failed big government republicans.

My stable of sources.
From -10 (liberal) to +10 (conservative)

NYTimes (-7)
Washington Post (-7)
Austin American Statesman (-8)
MSNBC (-10)
CNN (-5)
Fox News (news only, no 'analysis') (+2)
Fox (w analysis) (+9) (Ingraham and Carlson are the only two there that I can stomach these days)
WSJ (+4)
IBD (+5)
Daily Caller (+22) (kind of a National Enquirer for the right...)
National Review Online (+7) (read this mainly for Goldberg and Andrew McCarthy)
Reason (imaginary number of some sort, read it mainly for the Volokh Conspiracy)

You are somewhat correct about the slant of IBD being more than WSJ, but not noticeably more imo. Goes back to that for each, the core reader is reading these for business and financial issues --- accordingly each publication is 90 per cent+ financial issues. The politics they hit runs in the vein that big bad business and capitalism fans tend to run more conservative than the 'tax the evil scum suckers to purgatory' Bernista-types.
05-18-2018 09:35 AM
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flash3200 Offline
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Post: #3847
RE: Trump Administration
So you don't read HuffPo or Vox enough to rate them? 01-rivals
05-18-2018 09:52 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3848
RE: Trump Administration
(05-18-2018 09:05 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  [quote='tanqtonic' pid='15303073' dateline='1526627120']
[quote='flash3200' pid='15302930' dateline='1526612416']


Interesting...I have WSJ in the middle. They appear to be the only outlet interested in sorting facts by relevance and not by congruence to a given ideology.

Shouldn't they be at the top then, not in the middle?
05-18-2018 11:07 AM
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flash3200 Offline
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Post: #3849
RE: Trump Administration
(05-18-2018 11:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(05-18-2018 09:05 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  
(05-18-2018 02:05 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 10:00 PM)flash3200 Wrote:  Interesting...I have WSJ in the middle. They appear to be the only outlet interested in sorting facts by relevance and not by congruence to a given ideology.

Shouldn't they be at the top then, not in the middle?

Ha, you are correct.

It is "sad" that we have to sort our news outlets by their proclivity to abide by various ideological bias and not on their ability to report and represent facts in the most efficient and straight forward manner possible. What is even sadder is the great majority of my classmates that like to quote garbage outlets like Vox on facebook...I thought these people were supposed to be smart and self aware. Apparently all of the garbage fed to Rice students about their exceptional intellectual standing in the world has gone to their heads.
05-18-2018 11:34 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3850
RE: Trump Administration
(05-18-2018 09:52 AM)flash3200 Wrote:  So you don't read HuffPo or Vox enough to rate them? 01-rivals

I actually do read them. Just like I read RedState. HuffPo is the same level of drivel as RedState, just packaged fancier. As is Vox.

Daily Kos is the equivalent of RedState in terms of slant and the amounts of fact-challenged accuracy.

Each of those above consistently and flagrantly misdirects any casual reader. I look at each of those on a casual basis, but I have a 'first misdirection means I leave' rule. Accordingly each of those mentioned I struggle to make it through one article or opinion before the rule is invoked and I leave.

Been subjecting Daily Caller to that same rule and they make it about an article and a half before the rule shuts them down, so they are not much better. Could very well be they leave the list overall due to that.
05-18-2018 11:54 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3851
RE: Trump Administration
So, watching CNN and ABC this morning, it was interesting to see the push back on Trump's tweet about the witch hunt.

Generally, it falls into three categories:

(1)A bunch of russians have indicted, so the meddling is proven.

But no collusion has been found. Everybody concedes the russians tried to meddle, mainly by buying facebook ads after the election was over. But the Muelkler inquiry is not into Russian meddling, it is into Trump/Russian collusion. So, witch hunt.

(2) Other indictments have been returned.

Indictments into old actions way predating the Trump campaign, or misstatements to the FBI. Nothing on collusion The Mueller investigation is into collusion. Got nothing. so, witch hunt.

(3) Innuendo. Maybe they are looking into this guy or that guy. We just don't know. We have to wait until it is over.

Again, no proof or indictments relating to collusion. Witch hunt.


I find it interesting that the longer this goes on, the more bad things we discover about the FBI.
05-20-2018 01:04 PM
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sts60 Offline
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Post: #3852
RE: Trump Administration
I remember how furious I was at Bill Clinton for a half-hour meeting on the tarmac with Loretta Lynch, and at Lynch for not politely telling him to take a hike.

(Chuckle) How quaint that seems today.
05-21-2018 05:42 PM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3853
RE: Trump Administration
(05-21-2018 05:42 PM)sts60 Wrote:  I remember how furious I was at Bill Clinton for a half-hour meeting on the tarmac with Loretta Lynch, and at Lynch for not politely telling him to take a hike.

(Chuckle) How quaint that seems today.

Its kind of all intertwined, isnt it?
05-22-2018 01:30 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3854
RE: Trump Administration
(05-22-2018 01:30 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(05-21-2018 05:42 PM)sts60 Wrote:  I remember how furious I was at Bill Clinton for a half-hour meeting on the tarmac with Loretta Lynch, and at Lynch for not politely telling him to take a hike.

(Chuckle) How quaint that seems today.

Its kind of all intertwined, isnt it?

I was more unhappy with Lynch. I expect this kind of stuff from Bill.

The people who think the investigation is NOT a witch hunt also think Bill and Loretta talked about grandchildren in this happenstance meeting.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 07:23 AM by OptimisticOwl.)
05-22-2018 06:51 AM
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sts60 Offline
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Post: #3855
RE: Trump Administration
Nope. I think the current Special Counsel investigation is in no way a “witch hunt”. I also think it possible that Clinton at least tried to question or otherwise influence the DOJ investigation. (Well, maybe they talked about grandchildren too.) In any case, the meeting should not have happened; even supposing nothing untoward happened, it gave the appearance of impropriety.

Which, again, just seems so quaint nowadays.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 11:50 AM by sts60.)
05-22-2018 11:47 AM
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tanqtonic Offline
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Post: #3856
RE: Trump Administration
Well since the Special Counsel has in no way shape or form charged any US national with any near a 'collusion' type crime (let alone the vast plethora of 'procedure crimes' vs actual issues), *and* the joke of a prosecution of the Russian national-related entities (i.e. the stonewalling of letting one of them even answer the charges, and the charging of an entity that didnt even exist at the time in question), I find it hard to to categorize it as anything with any particular direction, let alone having any particular showing of anything above the expertise of flailing around in the dark.

Hmmm.... no expertise, lots of stonewalling on the sole prosecution that actually pertains to the investigation, and no direction towards what the original grounding was for. I don't know quite what the perfect statement to describe that would be but 'witch hunt' seems in roughly the right ballpark for this point in time.
05-22-2018 01:20 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3857
RE: Trump Administration
(05-22-2018 11:47 AM)sts60 Wrote:  Nope. I think the current Special Counsel investigation is in no way a “witch hunt”.

I have asked those who say it is not a witch hunt to give me the narrative of how the collusion is supposed to have happened.

Did Trump call Vlad one day, and offer to go easy on sanctions if only Vlad would help him get elected by stealing the DNC emails and publishing them with zero editing or any other changes? I find that fantastic. I am sure Vlad would jump at that deal, but Trump is not known for making such bad deals. In any case, how could he have know that just publishing the fact that Donna Brazile gave Hillary advance notice on debate questions would win him the election? If he is really that prescient, he is who we need in the WH.

If you have a different narrative of what happened, let me know.

In any case, it is supposed to be about Russia-Trump collusion, not decades old money laundering. So far, the only collusion shown has been the arrangement between the Clinton Campaign and Russia (via Steele) and the collusion between the FBI and the Clinton Campaign (via the usage of the Steele dossier).
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2018 11:32 PM by OptimisticOwl.)
05-22-2018 02:13 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3858
RE: Trump Administration
05-23-2018 08:41 AM
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sts60 Offline
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Post: #3859
RE: Trump Administration
My goodness, there’s a lot to unpack in your penultimate post. I promise a diligent response, but I’m in about-once-a-day mode, so kindly bear with me.
05-23-2018 11:09 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #3860
RE: Trump Administration
(05-23-2018 11:09 AM)sts60 Wrote:  My goodness, there’s a lot to unpack in your penultimate post. I promise a diligent response, but I’m in about-once-a-day mode, so kindly bear with me.

I appreciate the response and will wait on you.
05-23-2018 11:15 AM
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