(11-10-2016 02:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Jobs are going to decline regardless. The transportation work force is going to peak and crash as quickly as the horse population circa 1910s. manufacturing is in only a slightly better position. Factories are coming back, but not the jobs.

We need to focus on the machine tool industry that is GONE in the US. Whatever it takes...we need to be the country that makes the machines. Were I work the machines are from Germany, Italy and Denmark. NONE from the US. We had US machinery at one time....now scrapped...companies out of business. Lots of it is due to a poor tax structure and the destruction of our steel industry through onerous regulation.

We don't need or want our workers making T Shirts and Shoes. We want our workers making the machinery that makes these products. THAT is where the high skill..high paying jobs are.

(11-10-2016 05:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 05:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Step 1) Eliminate the corporate income tax

We don't actually have to eliminate it completely. Reducing it to a very low level compared to world standards would pretty much address the issue here. I've proposed 15%.

Quote:Step 2) Allow repatriation of money with little to no tax penalty

If the corporate tax rate is 15%, this happens pretty much automatically because of the way our tax system works.

Quote:Step 3) Reduce regulatory burden

Absolutely. And this not mean dirty air or dirty water or unsafe working conditions. It means cleaning up the red tape and redundancies built into the process so that we can get better answers faster. Of course, that means a bunch of fat cat bureaucrats lose their jobs. Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch. I would actually do three things:
One, sunset review for every agency every 10 years.
Two, all new rules subject to review and approval of congress before taking effect.
Three, transfer adjudication of disputes from ALJs who report to the executive director of the agency to separate Article III Administrative Law Courts in each federal judicial district.

Quote:Step 4) Stop giving big tax breaks to big companies opening big operations if you're not also going to give big tax breaks to SMALL companies opening SMALL operations. Stop giving freebies to behemoths and ****ing over the little guys who were in your backyard all along.

It's not so much that we give big tax breaks to big companies. The biggest tax break in our system, by far, is that we follow international law and allow profits to be taxed in the country where earned. Since everywhere else has a lower corporate tax rate than we do, that means that gives the advantage to those companies big enough to be multinationals. That obviously produces a better tax deal for big companies.

Quote:Step 5) Repeal ObamaCare and reform free market healthcare to reduce costs to businesses AND individual businesses enormously.

Adopt Bismarck. Pay for it with a consumption tax, less a Boortz/Linder prebate/prefund. Make the prebate/prefund and Bismarck health care the federal welfare safety net, and transfer all the focused and means-tested programs to the states, who can pay for them with the savings from having Medicaid taken off their plate by Bismarck.

I really like the idea of using a consumption tax in this. I have not thought about it before. Very interesting concept IMO.

Free Trade....but only Free Trade with nations that share our standards.

You need child labor laws similar to ours. You need to have worker safety rules similar to ours. You need a work week similar to hours. You need overtime pay rules similar to hours. You need environmental regs similar to ours. You need food and product safety requirements similar to ours. You must have free and fair elections. Etc.

If you are taking your factory overseas to exploit the natives and screw Americans out of jobs because of their standard of living....you'll pay a hefty tariff. If you are taking your factory overseas to be closer to a market or because they are better workers....that's legit.

Let's compete....but on an even playing field.

(11-10-2016 06:33 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Free Trade....but only Free Trade with nations that share our standards.
You need child labor laws similar to ours. You need to have worker safety rules similar to ours. You need a work week similar to hours. You need overtime pay rules similar to hours. You need environmental regs similar to ours. You need food and product safety requirements similar to ours. You must have free and fair elections. Etc.
If you are taking your factory overseas to exploit the natives and screw Americans out of jobs because of their standard of living....you'll pay a hefty tariff. If you are taking your factory overseas to be closer to a market or because they are better workers....that's legit.
Let's compete....but on an even playing field.

Europe has all those things. And we can't compete with them. We have a negative balance of trade with Europe. Think about that.

(11-10-2016 06:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 06:33 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Free Trade....but only Free Trade with nations that share our standards.
You need child labor laws similar to ours. You need to have worker safety rules similar to ours. You need a work week similar to hours. You need overtime pay rules similar to hours. You need environmental regs similar to ours. You need food and product safety requirements similar to ours. You must have free and fair elections. Etc.
If you are taking your factory overseas to exploit the natives and screw Americans out of jobs because of their standard of living....you'll pay a hefty tariff. If you are taking your factory overseas to be closer to a market or because they are better workers....that's legit.
Let's compete....but on an even playing field.

Europe has all those things. And we can't compete with them. We have a negative balance of trade with Europe. Think about that.

Well, then that is a problem of being outcompeted and failing to be as productive or efficient and not a legit reason to stop free trade. Not unfair. Compete better.

there are so many factors under current structure..... it's unfair to address in a handful of sentences in a thread...

corp taxation and trade revisions creating incentive immediately come to mind en macro....

isn't that what a president is supposed to do?

outline and find the ones that accomplish the goal within a specific timeframe?

there isn't a single answer or 4 that solves this.....

defining the problem and working it backward is how you solve it....

and don't give me wall st. bs.....we all know why that still exists and moves forward in ponzi....the when IT collapses is the real question....

cherry picking the easy ones are a gimme....

money has to be flowing for growth to begin again....

(11-10-2016 04:06 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It starts with people choosing to buy American made...

Then again, a poor nation can't afford its own goods and that's sort of the situation many people find themselves in.

Government has screwed US manufacturing so bad Korea is treating Alabama like a third world country. Cheap labor, tax breaks, taking all the profit and suckering people into thinking Korea is doing us a favor. It amazes me

First, isolate the USA from all foreign influences, close schools, hospitals, and stores, and abolish banking, finance, and currency. Outlaw all religions, confiscate all private property and relocate people from rural areas to collective factories in the cities.

Second, force people to work for 12 hours non-stop without adequate rest or food, so that these actions result in massive deaths through exhaustion, illness, and starvation.

Third, just to be safe, kill anyone wearing glasses. Throw in a little arbitrary torture and execution. Execute selected groups who are believed to be enemies of the state or spies that had the potential to undermine the new state.

Viola! Full manufacturing employment! Hell, those collective factories will be fighting for warm bodies to work!

Wait, sorry. You weren't looking for how liberals wanted to create manufacturing jobs. My fault!

Energy independence will go a long way on creating jobs. With energy independence and cheap nat gas which the US now has, the chemical and plastics and even fertilizer industries will flock again the the US. Back 10 and 20 years ago, when nat gas began to get real expensive, those industries basically abandoned the US. Now ethane crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry, are planned in the Bakken, the Marcellus, the Utica and of course Texas and Louisiana. New York could be a major nat gas producer, but state law prevents that. Western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio have seen the light on what the fracking industry can do for the economy, and that was a big reason that Trump won those states. WV and Pittsburgh are getting crackers and more are in planning stages. Qatar and the Saudis are worried about the downstream impact. The Asians and Euros won't be able to compete in the chemical industry if the USA continues with cheap natural gas. But the libs on the coasts are so against the chemical industry, so expect major fights on it.

Construction is another industry that could create massive jobs, like in the 2000's. It's basically collapsed still.

(11-10-2016 06:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 06:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 06:33 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Free Trade....but only Free Trade with nations that share our standards.
You need child labor laws similar to ours. You need to have worker safety rules similar to ours. You need a work week similar to hours. You need overtime pay rules similar to hours. You need environmental regs similar to ours. You need food and product safety requirements similar to ours. You must have free and fair elections. Etc.
If you are taking your factory overseas to exploit the natives and screw Americans out of jobs because of their standard of living....you'll pay a hefty tariff. If you are taking your factory overseas to be closer to a market or because they are better workers....that's legit.
Let's compete....but on an even playing field.

Europe has all those things. And we can't compete with them. We have a negative balance of trade with Europe. Think about that.

Well, then that is a problem of being outcompeted and failing to be as productive or efficient and not a legit reason to stop free trade. Not unfair. Compete better.

The difference is the consumption tax.

(11-10-2016 02:46 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 02:36 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Jobs are going to decline regardless. The transportation work force is going to peak and crash as quickly as the horse population circa 1910s. manufacturing is in only a slightly better position. Factories are coming back, but not the jobs.

I appreciate the distinction between jobs and mfg base. The base is more important than mfg jobs IMHO.

Especially since a good engineer can actually support a family on one income..

BIE?

(11-10-2016 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Energy independence will go a long way on creating jobs. With energy independence and cheap nat gas which the US now has, the chemical and plastics and even fertilizer industries will flock again the the US. Back 10 and 20 years ago, when nat gas began to get real expensive, those industries basically abandoned the US. Now ethane crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry, are planned in the Bakken, the Marcellus, the Utica and of course Texas and Louisiana. New York could be a major nat gas producer, but state law prevents that. Western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio have seen the light on what the fracking industry can do for the economy, and that was a big reason that Trump won those states. WV and Pittsburgh are getting crackers and more are in planning stages. Qatar and the Saudis are worried about the downstream impact. The Asians and Euros won't be able to compete in the chemical industry if the USA continues with cheap natural gas. But the libs on the coasts are so against the chemical industry, so expect major fights on it.

Construction is another industry that could create massive jobs, like in the 2000's. It's basically collapsed still.

no question about that one too....

they're lying on the ground waiting to bucketed.....

this one is too easy....it's pick your poison....'

If Trump can't make gains in the GDP, then he needs to fired too....

(11-10-2016 09:41 PM)Paul M Wrote:  BIE?

Yes,

I've been trying to reset my account for a month or so and finally decided just to make a new one.

(11-10-2016 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Energy independence will go a long way on creating jobs. With energy independence and cheap nat gas which the US now has, the chemical and plastics and even fertilizer industries will flock again the the US. Back 10 and 20 years ago, when nat gas began to get real expensive, those industries basically abandoned the US. Now ethane crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry, are planned in the Bakken, the Marcellus, the Utica and of course Texas and Louisiana. New York could be a major nat gas producer, but state law prevents that. Western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio have seen the light on what the fracking industry can do for the economy, and that was a big reason that Trump won those states. WV and Pittsburgh are getting crackers and more are in planning stages. Qatar and the Saudis are worried about the downstream impact. The Asians and Euros won't be able to compete in the chemical industry if the USA continues with cheap natural gas. But the libs on the coasts are so against the chemical industry, so expect major fights on it.

Construction is another industry that could create massive jobs, like in the 2000's. It's basically collapsed still.

no question about that one too....

they're lying on the ground waiting to bucketed.....

this one is too easy....it's pick your poison....'

If Trump can't make gains in the GDP, then he needs to fired too....

After I wrote this, saw some news articles that six ethane crackers are now planned for WV, W PA, or E Ohio. These are multi-billion projects each, so the construction crews are like 3000 in number and each plant will employ around 500 people. The product, ethylene, must be converted to polyethylene shortly thereafter (is also the main building block for chemical production). The plastics and even chemical businesses will not be in just Texas and Louisiana now (although Alberta has them and maybe North Dakota will have them too), helping PA and OH with a nearby PE or HDPE feedstock for manufacturing. TX and LA have new plants being built too, but for export.

There is some demand for propylene and polypropylene too, as the Marcellus is producing a lot of propane too.

Western New York could participate if they allowed nat gas drilling and fracking. But looks like they will miss out.

This has been a great thread. Would love for a party (ideally both) to take this on.

Whatever party managed to do this and could claim the credit would bury the other for generations. Can you imagine if the Dems could bring the uneducated whites into their fold? Or if Republicans could win over half the minority votes by bringing jobs back to cities?

You would hope the fear that the other party could eventually make something happen here and claim the spoils might be enough to force them to work together on it.

HAHA, that's a good one. They're both in service of the fat cats only.

(11-10-2016 11:15 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Energy independence will go a long way on creating jobs. With energy independence and cheap nat gas which the US now has, the chemical and plastics and even fertilizer industries will flock again the the US. Back 10 and 20 years ago, when nat gas began to get real expensive, those industries basically abandoned the US. Now ethane crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry, are planned in the Bakken, the Marcellus, the Utica and of course Texas and Louisiana. New York could be a major nat gas producer, but state law prevents that. Western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio have seen the light on what the fracking industry can do for the economy, and that was a big reason that Trump won those states. WV and Pittsburgh are getting crackers and more are in planning stages. Qatar and the Saudis are worried about the downstream impact. The Asians and Euros won't be able to compete in the chemical industry if the USA continues with cheap natural gas. But the libs on the coasts are so against the chemical industry, so expect major fights on it.

Construction is another industry that could create massive jobs, like in the 2000's. It's basically collapsed still.

no question about that one too....

they're lying on the ground waiting to bucketed.....

this one is too easy....it's pick your poison....'

If Trump can't make gains in the GDP, then he needs to fired too....

After I wrote this, saw some news articles that six ethane crackers are now planned for WV, W PA, or E Ohio. These are multi-billion projects each, so the construction crews are like 3000 in number and each plant will employ around 500 people. The product, ethylene, must be converted to polyethylene shortly thereafter (is also the main building block for chemical production). The plastics and even chemical businesses will not be in just Texas and Louisiana now (although Alberta has them and maybe North Dakota will have them too), helping PA and OH with a nearby PE or HDPE feedstock for manufacturing. TX and LA have new plants being built too, but for export.

There is some demand for propylene and polypropylene too, as the Marcellus is producing a lot of propane too.

Western New York could participate if they allowed nat gas drilling and fracking. But looks like they will miss out.

I believe Trump will open up energy reserves and stop blocking pipelines and infrastructure projects. This might be the single best thing he could achieve as POTUS.
The environmentalists are going to commit suicide over the next 4 years.

(11-10-2016 09:59 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-10-2016 08:13 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Energy independence will go a long way on creating jobs. With energy independence and cheap nat gas which the US now has, the chemical and plastics and even fertilizer industries will flock again the the US. Back 10 and 20 years ago, when nat gas began to get real expensive, those industries basically abandoned the US. Now ethane crackers, which are the forerunners of the chemical industry, are planned in the Bakken, the Marcellus, the Utica and of course Texas and Louisiana. New York could be a major nat gas producer, but state law prevents that. Western Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio have seen the light on what the fracking industry can do for the economy, and that was a big reason that Trump won those states. WV and Pittsburgh are getting crackers and more are in planning stages. Qatar and the Saudis are worried about the downstream impact. The Asians and Euros won't be able to compete in the chemical industry if the USA continues with cheap natural gas. But the libs on the coasts are so against the chemical industry, so expect major fights on it.

Construction is another industry that could create massive jobs, like in the 2000's. It's basically collapsed still.

no question about that one too....

they're lying on the ground waiting to bucketed.....

this one is too easy....it's pick your poison....'

If Trump can't make gains in the GDP, then he needs to fired too....

The ball is in his court. Low scoring is not going to be tolerated.

I think the plan is.

1) Insult the people you need to invest in your country
2) Start a trade war
3) Make our country less desirable to educated migrants