Student support is absolutely critical. By and large, no one comes to W&M as a fan of our teams. If they don't become fans while they are students they won't become fans after. And Williamsburg is not a metropolitan area of sufficient size to a successfully support a college sports program.

The first thing I look at when I attend a game at the Hall in person is the size of the student crowd. My impression is that while it has grown in the last few years it is not at the level we had in the mid-70s but that could be false memories of my school days.

We had a tremendous spike in student attendance and enthusiasm at football games when we first introduced night games. I am not sure why the drop off but this message thread has certainly provided good suggestions.

1) Schedule matters. In basketball the lack of good OOC home games hurts, as does the loss of rivals such as UR, VCU, ODU and GMU. In football we have a similar problem with the loss of FBS opponents.
2) Team accessibility to the student body matters. When I was at W&M I lived in dorms with both football and basketball players, as well as taking classes with them. Did I read in this thread that the football players have their own dorm? I hope not.
3) Winning matters. I love basketball more than football anyway but the success of the basketball team during the Balanis/Parkhill years developed my attachment to W&M basketball a great deal. As a result I have always considered W&M a basketball school. Those who attended during the years when we first had success as a 1-AA program probably view W&M as a football school.
4) Alternative entertainment options matter. Football is in the fall when the weather is beautiful and occurs on Saturdays when there is time to do many things. Basketball is a weeknight sport in the winter when you can go the to Hall and not be covered in layers of winter clothing.

Football players...none of the athletes on any teams...live in their own specialized dorm. Like all freshmen they live in a campus dorm freshman year; after that year most, as do many non-athlete students, live in private dwellings.

Actually student attendance for first three football games was very good...packed for Homecoming and Parents Weekend, 3/4 full for third game.

Athletes TECHNICALLY don't have their own dorm but in practice most of the athletes are in Yates freshman year. There wasn't an athlete in my entire dorm let alone hall as a freshman. Then they move off campus unlike 3/4 of the student body. Football players especially tend to be an isolated group.

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Many of my friends that are big Tribe sports fans also lived in Yates. I wonder what percentage of Tribe student fans are in Yates. That dorm is closer to the athletic fields.

The one thing I'll never understand is why our other athletics teams don't show up and support our football team. Our football players go nuts at men's basketball games.

Soccer gets a pass right now but our basketball, field hockey, and baseball squads should attend...more than attend...lead cheers and amp up the experience.

10 basketball players x 2 (boys & girls) + a few friends each is significant.

One Tribe. One Family.

I think a lot of athletes show up but just aren't in the student section. I remember a lot of basketball players sitting in the South endzone right above the field. In fact I think Ken Anderson got an excessive celebration penalty for high fiving one a couple years ago after a big score.

(11-01-2016 07:19 AM)Tribal Wrote:  The one thing I'll never understand is why our other athletics teams don't show up and support our football team. Our football players go nuts at men's basketball games.

Soccer gets a pass right now but our basketball, field hockey, and baseball squads should attend...more than attend...lead cheers and amp up the experience.

10 basketball players x 2 (boys & girls) + a few friends each is significant.

One Tribe. One Family.

I agree with you that it is important for athletes from all teams to support those on other teams. It is harder for the impact to be felt as much at football games due to the size of the stadium and the fact that there are more football players than there are in any other sport.

For instance, the seating capacity for football is roughly 50% higher than for basketball. There are approximately 4 times as many football players on the varsity and practice squad as there are in men's and women's basketball combined.

I applaud the athletic department for having recognition for other teams during the football games, which brings those teams and their friends to the games, thereby increasing student attendance.

When I was at W&M my fraternity would bring a keg to the game and set it up in the stands (the legal drinking age was 18). We were not unique and that was a draw, particularly for opponents that didn't have widespread interest in the student population. We'll never see that again, nor will we see OOC teams that are currently in ACC, the Big 10, the Big 12 and SEC teams in Zable as I did.

We need to concentrate on the product and experience within current reality. That begins with winning and continues with promotions and facilities, within a limited budget.

I think we would all agree (if we are being totally honest) that the main reason we went anywhere, extracurically, at W&M was to meet girls (or guys). It didn't matter if it was a football game, mixer, Frat party or the Library, if it involved meeting a new someone, then it was "Hey, I'm in!"

I think the Athletic Department and Activities people (and I also have High praise for Spence Milne - he is a master at what he does and how hard he works is impressive) should look to make the games (football and basketball) more of a mixer type event.

My suggestion is to make one of the corners of the stadium, along the Bryan Dorm side, into a Beer Garden type situation. While Pizza and soft drinks would have to replace beer, I think it could become a great tradition as a place to pre-game party for students (inside the stadium - "might as well stay for the game").

It would require some special attention in that:

1. it would have to be roped off/fenced in (entrance by showing Student ID card) area and big enough to allow for a lot of people and movement easily inside the perimeter. (Again, think mixer party and how you wanted to be able to flow around and check out who is there.)
2. It would have to be cool looking. By this I mean, don't just throw up a rope and a drink truck and expect people to be attracted. Do some architecture (either permanent or temporary) that makes it look appealing and a cool place to hang out.
3.Have Pizza Parties, a live band, speed dating, give away plastic cups (I had numerous of those things for years) or any other ideas and give-away promotions that would make people say, "Hey, lets go check this out."


At our level of play, and our level of academic rigor, there HAS to be a little extra incentive to show up at any event. We all know that. We are not an Ohio State, in size or in sports fanaticism, so we have to approach it with a little more thought.

This board, for all the crap it sometimes catches from the "powers that be", still is a collection of smart people, who love their school and its sports teams. You guys produce some great ideas that people, like Spencer, could pick up, work with and run with to produce a potential solution to increasing our fan base in all sports.


This is only my idea for the student participation. I also believe that local fans, Military fans and kids groups need to be aggressively pursued. With some hard work and tenacity, W&M sporting events could become just that...an event, something people don't want to miss being a part of.
.

First off, the fact that y'all had kegs in the stands is absolutely amazing.

The landscape of being a College Student is changing drastically. Free food and drinks just doesn't always do it. I worked out at Saint Louis University for a while and they had $2 beers before the game + free food, and when the team wasn't a top 25 team, they still struggled with attendance. It helps, but student attendance just isn't that turnkey these days.

BillyMac--You're spot on, as always. Sporting events are a social activity. Excellent opportunity to meet people. The problem is that the pool of people that go to these events is relatively limited. Stick with me here:

- Realistically, if we get 1,000 people to a game, that's probably 200-300 people per class level
- By your senior year, you've been going to the same sporting events with *approximately* the same 200ish people.
- Students stick with their crowd and its difficult/intimidating to break into a new group. If you're only 1 person that wants to go to a game, but your hallmates don't want to go, all of a sudden its a lot more difficult to enjoy the game alone.
- That's part of why I think having an active student fan club is critical. All of a sudden you have an entire section of people you're meeting up with, not just relying on your dorm-mates. No one wants to go to a game alone. You want to be part of the community.

I LOVE the speed dating idea. Promotional-wise, its hilarious and wonderful. Practically, again, the landscape is changing. You're seeing teams do things like Tinder Night--21st Century Speed Dating, if you will. (http://www.nba.com/hawks/news/atlanta-ha...arch-19/). I always thought this was great. But again, smaller pool of eligible participants at WM. I do think there's all sorts of opportunity for social engagement at games. And I think @TribeAthletics has improved incredibly over the past few years. Would be interested to hear how that account engages with students vs. alums

I remember as a sophomore, they ran a promotion involving paper airplanes--whomever could get closest to a target would win a free roundtrip airline ticket. I will never forget spending the entire week leading up to the contest researching paper planes and trying different designs. Pretty sure I didn't study for a few exams because of that.

I don't know the status of the 6th Man Program, but that was always a huge draw when I was there. My hallmates weren't always as excited about the game, but throw the potential in there of getting a jersey and they were always there.

And one final thing--In regards to support from athletes, it should be noted that athletes give back to the College at a higher level than alums at large. If the Field Hockey team doesn't want to go to the football game, but they're giving back to the College, that's a win in my book. (Side note, I always saw Field Hockey players at the football games)

Positive experiences at W&M are the big-picture goal. And we just all agree that everyone would be happier if they went to the football game :)

(10-31-2016 03:29 PM)nj alum Wrote:  I attended from 1976 - 1979. The student section was full. At Homecoming, people sat on the steps. Every home game was a 1:30 start. Here's your list of differences:

1) We were a 1-A program
2) We had a good home schedule
3) There was a huge tailgate lot behind the West Stands
4) Alcohol was present
5) Frats and sororities attended in good numbers
6) We had a fine marching band
7) We were the Indians
8) Vendors came up in the stands, you ordered your big RC, and kept the plastic cups with Indians, feathers, etc... ended up with stacked cups in your dorm room.
9) Alumni side tended to sit and be quiet ... quite the reversal now between students and alumni
10) Alumni left at half time, and a good number never made it back as the tailgate scene was pretty good.
11) Football players lived in freshman dorms with the regular students, and were part of the fraternity scene in their upper class years. Is that happening now? Are they more employees rather than fellow students at the present time?

So, the solution is to recruit the frats and sororities, give out free stuff that can be used by the students in their daily lives (cups and shirts vs. hankies), create a beer garden for the over 21 crowd, re-start a marching band, bring back the feathers, ... and ... wait for it ... go FBS :-) !!!

Well said. We need to get back to the major leagues, or at least pretend. We are kind of shuffling around in basketball. That's some kind of start

I think one other overlooked factor in student attendance back in the 70s and now is just there is so much MORE to do both on college campuses and in Williamsburg as a whole. From everything I've heard, it doesn't sound like there were a ton of options for students besides going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. These days, there are tons. And this is likely a factor affecting attendance at schools all across the country, not just WM.

(11-01-2016 11:25 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  I think one other overlooked factor in student attendance back in the 70s and now is just there is so much MORE to do both on college campuses and in Williamsburg as a whole. From everything I've heard, it doesn't sound like there were a ton of options for students besides going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. These days, there are tons. And this is likely a factor affecting attendance at schools all across the country, not just WM.

Well, we were limited to pong as a video game and laser tag hadn't been invented yet.

(11-01-2016 11:25 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  From everything I've heard, it doesn't sound like there were a ton of options for students besides going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. These days, there are tons. And this is likely a factor affecting attendance at schools all across the country, not just WM.

Yep, the only option was to drive to the store for some PBR that morning, drink beer legally at age 18 before the game at a pre-game party wherever, slip the flask in / drink from the keg in the stands during the game, root for your frat brother / dorm mate / friend / fellow athlete / fellow student on the field during the game, take a nap after the game, have dinner, take a shower, and go to a party in frat row that night ... simple option with massive socialization. Five special Saturdays per year.

Or, if it was a road game in Virginia... road trip organized along the same principles.

VS. today's TONS of options?

I think us old folks got the better college deal!

:-)

BTW ... for us old folks, still doing the same thing before, during, and after the game ... it's called tailgating! Habits learned attending the school as students. That is the point, isn't it?

An important element that differentiates basketball from football is visual. At basketball games you can actually see the guys sweat. They're right there. With football they are masked by their equipment and the number of teammates. It's much easier to make the fan/player connection wi basketball.

(11-01-2016 07:53 PM)nj alum Wrote:  

(11-01-2016 11:25 AM)Tribe2011 Wrote:  From everything I've heard, it doesn't sound like there were a ton of options for students besides going to a football game on a Saturday afternoon. These days, there are tons. And this is likely a factor affecting attendance at schools all across the country, not just WM.

Yep, the only option was to drive to the store for some PBR that morning, drink beer legally at age 18 before the game at a pre-game party wherever, slip the flask in / drink from the keg in the stands during the game, root for your frat brother / dorm mate / friend / fellow athlete / fellow student on the field during the game, take a nap after the game, have dinner, take a shower, and go to a party in frat row that night ... simple option with massive socialization. Five special Saturdays per year.

Or, if it was a road game in Virginia... road trip organized along the same principles.

VS. today's TONS of options?

I think us old folks got the better college deal!

:-)

BTW ... for us old folks, still doing the same thing before, during, and after the game ... it's called tailgating! Habits learned attending the school as students. That is the point, isn't it?

+1

I was at WM within the last 10 years, and I would agree with the general assessment that the problem is a decline in overall college sports attendance, not a WM-specific issue. While there were plenty of geeks at WM in my time, it was often the frat guys who were least interested in going to games. Millennial youth culture prized ironic detachment, which made having pride in your school socially risky. Generation Z might be more sincere than us (I hope so).

WM is probably tougher than average on alcohol, as far as I can tell. Admittedly there were several times I showed up to Tribe games blitzed, and I thank my lucky stars I didn't run into campus police walking to or from the game. They are not shy about sending students to the drunk tank.

There's also the fact that the basketball team plays at the highest level of collegiate competition (albeit in a middling league) whereas you have to explain the concept of FCS football to the average person. The idea that this year WM could go to the Big Dance and upset Georgetown--or whoever--is always in the back of your mind.

Finally, as others have noted, the closest I ever came to coach Laycock in four years was the view from the student section as he paced the opposite sideline. On the other hand Tony Shaver and I crossed paths all the time, and he would always make a point of saying hello and offering a kind word. The guy was visible.

Article related to a lack of entertaining game-day experience for student fans. Not the best writing, but at least it shows that some students are paying attention.

http://flathatnews.com/2019/11/11/out-of...-bbp3bz8pg

(11-13-2019 11:28 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:  Article related to a lack of entertaining game-day experience for student fans. Not the best writing, but at least it shows that some students are paying attention.

http://flathatnews.com/2019/11/11/out-of...-bbp3bz8pg

I think it's also worth noting that the bell sound they use is a generic bell sound dug up on the internet somewhere. The actual Wren bell is a higher and less resonating sound.

That is one of the absolute stupidest articles I've ever read.

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(11-14-2019 06:12 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  That is one of the absolute stupidest articles I've ever read.

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I, too, as a 72 yr old grad find the bell sound stupid and annoying. That bell routine is commonplace in many venues. It is a tired gimmick.