(10-21-2016 01:36 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2016 01:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  or maybe conservatives always butcher history to fit their political narrative.

you know "states rights and the civil war" or "the founding fathers being conservatives"

maybe... but no different than how democrats do so.

The founding father certainly believed in small, limited government and individual liberty.... which ARE fundamental conservative values. Liberals often do just as you are doing here and confusing politically conservative with socially conservative.

which allows you to do just as I suggested and lump those on the right who know the difference in with those on the right who don't.... Whether that is because you are on the left and know the difference, but are willing to lie about it because it furthers YOUR political goals, or whether you don't know the difference either which means you aren't in a position to judge others who don't know... would be a guess.

I won't argue the civil war issue. Pointless... but it IS an example of you similarly assuming that people you don't know, most of whom didn't own slaves were willing to fight and die to protect the rights of others to do so with no other possible motivation. 'The South' was of one single mind in your opinion, as was the north.

Silly.

That was my family. They didn't own any slaves based on religious grounds yet they were among the first to volunteer to defend their homeland. They were South Carolinians first and Americans second, as I am today.

What people don't understand today because of the expansion of the federal government starting with Lincoln and growing ever since was the fact that prior to the Civil War people were more connected to their state than they were to the country because that was the way that the Founding Fathers intended it to be. There's a reason why the Constitution limits the powers of the federal government and grants the powers not specifically named to the states.

Agreed Kap. I had family on both sides and reading their war journals is fascinating. Slavery is almost never mentioned... except as a passing comment/way to refer to someone.

And tom, I agree with much of what you say (though I personally don't have the information to agree with specifics)...

but what you're saying isn't fundamentally different from what Trump has said. Yes, you are more PC, but it's still the same thing. If they change the agreement, then we are released from it as well.

(10-23-2016 11:58 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(10-21-2016 01:36 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(10-21-2016 01:04 PM)john01992 Wrote:  or maybe conservatives always butcher history to fit their political narrative.

you know "states rights and the civil war" or "the founding fathers being conservatives"

maybe... but no different than how democrats do so.

The founding father certainly believed in small, limited government and individual liberty.... which ARE fundamental conservative values. Liberals often do just as you are doing here and confusing politically conservative with socially conservative.

which allows you to do just as I suggested and lump those on the right who know the difference in with those on the right who don't.... Whether that is because you are on the left and know the difference, but are willing to lie about it because it furthers YOUR political goals, or whether you don't know the difference either which means you aren't in a position to judge others who don't know... would be a guess.

I won't argue the civil war issue. Pointless... but it IS an example of you similarly assuming that people you don't know, most of whom didn't own slaves were willing to fight and die to protect the rights of others to do so with no other possible motivation. 'The South' was of one single mind in your opinion, as was the north.

Silly.

That was my family. They didn't own any slaves based on religious grounds yet they were among the first to volunteer to defend their homeland. They were South Carolinians first and Americans second, as I am today.

What people don't understand today because of the expansion of the federal government starting with Lincoln and growing ever since was the fact that prior to the Civil War people were more connected to their state than they were to the country because that was the way that the Founding Fathers intended it to be. There's a reason why the Constitution limits the powers of the federal government and grants the powers not specifically named to the states.

The 10th Amendment is criminally ignored.

This Yankee understands your position and supports it. It is unfortunate that Pennsylvania is such a liberal state.

The countries around my birthplace sent more than required share to fight for the Union. It is sad that those brave men ended up partially fighting for a big government.