(10-22-2016 10:49 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 08:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 04:25 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Those mfers made political parties and permanently divided the country.

You mean Hamilton and Madison. Washington never was a party member and warned against it for the very reasons we see today. Another reason Washington is the greatest leader this nation ever had. Even Hamilton and Madison did not want parties to divide the nation. They wanted them to work together for a common cause. Of course...This was in a time of "Gentlemen and Statesmen". Nothing remotely like that exists today.

They didn't create them to divide the nation because I suppose that they never thought that politics would be a concern of the public; but they did seek to divide the government.

They did not seek to have them work together. These guys were bloody rivals and were open about being enemies. They had no interest in a common cause.

They were though statesmen and gentlemen. The fact that they managed to move the nation forward despite their differences speaks for this. We don't have a single statesman and few gentlemen in Washington today. This is lot of our problem. We would be blessed with some Hamilton's and Madison's today. Not to mention...They were much more classically educated than the clowns we have in charge now.

(10-22-2016 11:08 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-22-2016 10:49 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 08:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 04:25 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Those mfers made political parties and permanently divided the country.

You mean Hamilton and Madison. Washington never was a party member and warned against it for the very reasons we see today. Another reason Washington is the greatest leader this nation ever had. Even Hamilton and Madison did not want parties to divide the nation. They wanted them to work together for a common cause. Of course...This was in a time of "Gentlemen and Statesmen". Nothing remotely like that exists today.

They didn't create them to divide the nation because I suppose that they never thought that politics would be a concern of the public; but they did seek to divide the government.

They did not seek to have them work together. These guys were bloody rivals and were open about being enemies. They had no interest in a common cause.

They were though statesmen and gentlemen. The fact that they managed to move the nation forward despite their differences speaks for this. We don't have a single statesman and few gentlemen in Washington today. This is lot of our problem. We would be blessed with some Hamilton's and Madison's today. Not to mention...They were much more classically educated than the clowns we have in charge now.

Public service in their day was considered a civic duty and personal monetary gain wasn't part of the deal. Government and politics weren't professions.

Now personal monetary gain is the whole deal and the goal is to stay employed in this lucrative profession by hook or by crook.

(10-20-2016 10:37 AM)appst89 Wrote:  The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves right now. They would be ashamed to see what has become of their efforts.

There wasn't an FBI in those days to keep the politicians straight. That's a joke.

(10-22-2016 11:25 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(10-22-2016 11:08 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-22-2016 10:49 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 08:34 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 04:25 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Those mfers made political parties and permanently divided the country.

You mean Hamilton and Madison. Washington never was a party member and warned against it for the very reasons we see today. Another reason Washington is the greatest leader this nation ever had. Even Hamilton and Madison did not want parties to divide the nation. They wanted them to work together for a common cause. Of course...This was in a time of "Gentlemen and Statesmen". Nothing remotely like that exists today.

They didn't create them to divide the nation because I suppose that they never thought that politics would be a concern of the public; but they did seek to divide the government.

They did not seek to have them work together. These guys were bloody rivals and were open about being enemies. They had no interest in a common cause.

They were though statesmen and gentlemen. The fact that they managed to move the nation forward despite their differences speaks for this. We don't have a single statesman and few gentlemen in Washington today. This is lot of our problem. We would be blessed with some Hamilton's and Madison's today. Not to mention...They were much more classically educated than the clowns we have in charge now.

Public service in their day was considered a civic duty and personal monetary gain wasn't part of the deal. Government and politics weren't professions.

Now personal monetary gain is the whole deal and the goal is to stay employed in this lucrative profession by hook or by crook.

Yep...The founders would probably approve of term limits now. Then..it was not an issue. Remember...They begged GW to continue as President. He could have held the job for a long time and yet chose to step aside.

(10-22-2016 07:55 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(10-20-2016 10:37 AM)appst89 Wrote:  The Founding Fathers are spinning in their graves right now. They would be ashamed to see what has become of their efforts.

There wasn't an FBI in those days to keep the politicians straight. That's a joke.

The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

(10-23-2016 06:42 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

I get struck by how much Christian influence was in pop music in the 60s. It is totally expunged these days unless you listen to one of the Christian rock stations.

(10-24-2016 07:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 06:42 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

I get struck by how much Christian influence was in pop music in the 60s. It is totally expunged these days unless you listen to one of the Christian rock stations.

I just saw Miley and Katy Perry politicking for Killary. There's your answer. And… we know Hollywood is all pro killary too.

(10-24-2016 05:31 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(10-24-2016 07:54 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 06:42 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

I get struck by how much Christian influence was in pop music in the 60s. It is totally expunged these days unless you listen to one of the Christian rock stations.

I just saw Miley and Katy Perry politicking for Killary. There's your answer. And… we know Hollywood is all pro killary too.

There's no liberal Christian music either.

(10-23-2016 06:42 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

the amount of irony in this post

(10-24-2016 09:33 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-23-2016 06:42 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  The problem is that the Founding Fathers are not taught well in school. They are mostly cut down by revisionist historians.

If you read their words, you will be surprised by how conservative and Christian, they are.

the amount of irony in this post

Brilliant rebuttal. I would take the time to post multiple quotes but why waste their genius and my time on a ostrich?

I'm going to go with Harmon on this. The Founding Fathers were, in their writings, overly Christian in their thinking. There is truth in that they wrote through a Christian moral worldview and in a Christian sense, although not dogmatically. That's the wedge that a wing of academia has used to argue they were Deists and such, which is not necessarily true.

However, I'm going to have to say that for their time the Founding Fathers were most certainly not conservative. They are conservative by our measure but now by their own.