Please...this is not a thread for "academic smack." (This includes cracks at schools from other conferences; no need to attract flies.) If you'd like to compliment someone or express concern for your own school, by all means do so, but please take the insults elsewhere. Again: please.

I hadn't seen this posted yet and thought there might be some who would like to comment. The newest U.S. News college rankings were released a few days ago.

EDIT: Sorry, here's the link.

Quick SBC overview
Among full-time members, we sit at eight national universities and four regional universities. The eight national schools all have a Rank Not Published, while App tops the regional schools at #9 in the south. Idaho and New Mexico State sit nicely at 171 and 220 among national universities.

Some of the changes
These are the first rankings after the recent reclassification of schools under the Carnegie system. According to the U.S. News site, around 12% of ranked schools changed categories. This includes, for example, the longtime leader in northern regional universities, Villanova, who moves into the national universities category at a very strong #50. As for the SBC, I think this is the first appearance as a national university for ULM, Texas State, and Little Rock (but feel free to correct me).

My personal take
My undergrad alma mater, Mercer, hit the national universities category for the first time and moves in at #135. I think this is good, and it makes me wonder about the possibility of App achieving a really solid national ranking if they are ever able to expand their academic offerings, which some alumni would apparently like to see. Mercer and App have perenially been near each other in the southern university rankings.

Georgia State gets an interesting #4 ranking in Most Innovative Schools and an outstanding #14 in Best Undergraduate Teaching. We're #63 in business and #141 in high school counselor rankings, and we maintain a variety of ranked graduate programs. And although I don't think the global rankings have been updated, we're at #133 among U.S. universities in that list. All of which makes it a little frustrating that we still haven't moved out of the RNP national university group, and which makes me wonder if something about our setup and mission (maybe low six-year graduation and first-year retention rates) may make it difficult to ever achieve a numerical ranking without a reworking of the methodology.

(09-16-2016 11:52 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  My personal take
My undergrad alma mater, Mercer, hit the national universities category for the first time and moves in at #135. I think this is good, and it makes me wonder about the possibility of App achieving a really solid national ranking if they are ever able to expand their academic offerings, which some alumni would apparently like to see. Mercer and App have perenially been near each other in the southern university rankings.

Yep. App Alumns would love nothing more to expand the School of Nursing into a full blown medical program. You can get your PA, but that's as high as you can go.

Also, App has a unbelievable Sustainable Development department. This could be spun into an engineering department with the right funding and planning.

However, saying this, the NC system is corrupt as hell. Ask UNCC about it. They know. They want a med school. You think UNC-CH wants another med program in state? Nope. You think NCSU wants a competing Engineering school? nope.

It is nice that TXST moved into the national category. Now they need to keep improving and get ranked.

Yosef Himself is right, App and other schools in NC are really making the efforts to improve existing programs and to expand into new fields, but, the son of a @!$#%^# at Chapel hill control everything at the state level. We cant do anything at App before we get approval from UNC. Of course they deny any involvement, but there has been plenty of proof in the last 10 years to prove them liars.

Former Chancellor Ken Peacock told me his dream was to see a medical school in Boone. He worked extremely hard for the new Health Sciences school and new building. It was disappointing the funding for the building didn't come through while he was still the CEO.

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(09-16-2016 12:22 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 11:52 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  My personal take
My undergrad alma mater, Mercer, hit the national universities category for the first time and moves in at #135. I think this is good, and it makes me wonder about the possibility of App achieving a really solid national ranking if they are ever able to expand their academic offerings, which some alumni would apparently like to see. Mercer and App have perenially been near each other in the southern university rankings.

Yep. App Alumns would love nothing more to expand the School of Nursing into a full blown medical program. You can get your PA, but that's as high as you can go.

Also, App has a unbelievable Sustainable Development department. This could be spun into an engineering department with the right funding and planning.

However, saying this, the NC system is corrupt as hell. Ask UNCC about it. They know. They want a med school. You think UNC-CH wants another med program in state? Nope. You think NCSU wants a competing Engineering school? nope.

I think it's more or less about cash flow. The state views the schools as a system rather than individuals and as such, see that the UNC System has X number of Medical Schools and engineering programs, Y number of students trying to get into those programs, and more than likely doesn't see that an increase in funding will increase the demand from students to make sense financially to expand on existing funding.

In other words, they don't want to cannibalize their own product offerings at certain schools by adding them at other schools. It makes sense to me considering this is a public school discussion.

(09-16-2016 12:41 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  I think it's more or less about cash flow. The state views the schools as a system rather than individuals and as such, see that the UNC System has X number of Medical Schools and engineering programs, Y number of students trying to get into those programs, and more than likely doesn't see that an increase in funding will increase the demand from students to make sense financially to expand on existing funding.

In other words, they don't want to cannibalize their own product offerings at certain schools by adding them at other schools. It makes sense to me considering this is a public school discussion.

I wonder if App might eventually move into the national list even in the absence of something like a medical school that clearly "competes" with others in the system. I was surprised to see Kennesaw State, Valdosta State, and West Georgia all listed as national universities this year. Other than maybe Kennesaw to a small extent, I don't think many folks think of any of those as major sites of research, so I don't know what tipped them over in the most recent classifications.

(09-16-2016 12:35 PM)moehler Wrote:  Yosef Himself is right, App and other schools in NC are really making the efforts to improve existing programs and to expand into new fields, but, the son of a @!$#%^# at Chapel hill control everything at the state level. We cant do anything at App before we get approval from UNC. Of course they deny any involvement, but there has been plenty of proof in the last 10 years to prove them liars.

A quick comparison of funds allocated to unc-ch vs the rest of the system for the past 20 years clears that up pretty quickly. I despise their athletics teams, but dislike them far more for their political influence over the NC General Assembly.

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(09-16-2016 12:41 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 12:22 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  

(09-16-2016 11:52 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  My personal take
My undergrad alma mater, Mercer, hit the national universities category for the first time and moves in at #135. I think this is good, and it makes me wonder about the possibility of App achieving a really solid national ranking if they are ever able to expand their academic offerings, which some alumni would apparently like to see. Mercer and App have perenially been near each other in the southern university rankings.

Yep. App Alumns would love nothing more to expand the School of Nursing into a full blown medical program. You can get your PA, but that's as high as you can go.

Also, App has a unbelievable Sustainable Development department. This could be spun into an engineering department with the right funding and planning.

However, saying this, the NC system is corrupt as hell. Ask UNCC about it. They know. They want a med school. You think UNC-CH wants another med program in state? Nope. You think NCSU wants a competing Engineering school? nope.

I think it's more or less about cash flow. The state views the schools as a system rather than individuals and as such, see that the UNC System has X number of Medical Schools and engineering programs, Y number of students trying to get into those programs, and more than likely doesn't see that an increase in funding will increase the demand from students to make sense financially to expand on existing funding.

In other words, they don't want to cannibalize their own product offerings at certain schools by adding them at other schools. It makes sense to me considering this is a public school discussion.

Its about the cash flow alright. The cash flowing into unc-ch. The stunts William Friday and the BOG tried pulling to deny ECU a medical school were sickening. They didn't want any of those high salaried Dr's donating to any other system school than chapel hill.

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Medical schools are hardly a panacea (pardon the pun) for ratcheting up standings in rankings such as these, imo. The immense amount of funding associated with adequate resourcing AND the requisite development of academic liaisons with willing and capable corporate/medical partners, manifests itself as a very high barrier. It further becomes a problem as you move away from the population centers and into more of a rural setting where access issues are compounded. As telemedicine becomes more widely adopted, I predict those centers that have already embraced it will strengthen their hold on that 'market' which will preemptively undercut efforts by others to enter into competition. This will also serve to stifle, rightly or wrongly, some of the argument from rural outposts that they are underserved.

All of the allied health fields will have great opportunity with the pending exodus of the baby boomers from the workforce, but unless the acute and post-acute worlds are willing to expand their clinical rotations the 'throughput' and current output of newly minted health professionals will not come close to meeting the needs of the next 20 years.

Schools like Georgia Southern and Appalachian would be better served, imo, to expand their nursing programs and improve partnerships with local providers, as they provide excellent value and great ROI, whereas a medical school probably wouldn't. I know many like to say that it would spur MD's returning to those underserved, rural areas ... but 35 years after Mercer (private) got STATE money to open up our med school, there still is a rural physician shortage in the state of Georgia.

I've seen firsthand the good that has come out of the Mercer medical school (I work for an affiliated clinical partner and also am a Mercer MBA grad), but Mercer had to go that route to get the school approved back in 1981. A fair question would be is would the shortage be WORSE had they not, but who really knows the answer to that. Many of the folks I've known through the years spent the minimal amount of time required in a rural or family practice setting, then moved along at first opportunity. I'm not even sure they have a minimum service requirement anymore.

(09-16-2016 11:52 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Please...this is not a thread for "academic smack." (This includes cracks at schools from other conferences; no need to attract flies.) If you'd like to compliment someone or express concern for your own school, by all means do so, but please take the insults elsewhere. Again: please.

I hadn't seen this posted yet and thought there might be some who would like to comment. The newest U.S. News college rankings were released a few days ago.

EDIT: Sorry, here's the link.

Quick SBC overview
Among full-time members, we sit at eight national universities and four regional universities. The eight national schools all have a Rank Not Published, while App tops the regional schools at #9 in the south. Idaho and New Mexico State sit nicely at 171 and 220 among national universities.

Some of the changes
These are the first rankings after the recent reclassification of schools under the Carnegie system. According to the U.S. News site, around 12% of ranked schools changed categories. This includes, for example, the longtime leader in northern regional universities, Villanova, who moves into the national universities category at a very strong #50. As for the SBC, I think this is the first appearance as a national university for ULM, Texas State, and Little Rock (but feel free to correct me).

My personal take
My undergrad alma mater, Mercer, hit the national universities category for the first time and moves in at #135. I think this is good, and it makes me wonder about the possibility of App achieving a really solid national ranking if they are ever able to expand their academic offerings, which some alumni would apparently like to see. Mercer and App have perenially been near each other in the southern university rankings.

Georgia State gets an interesting #4 ranking in Most Innovative Schools and an outstanding #14 in Best Undergraduate Teaching. We're #63 in business and #141 in high school counselor rankings, and we maintain a variety of ranked graduate programs. And although I don't think the global rankings have been updated, we're at #133 among U.S. universities in that list. All of which makes it a little frustrating that we still haven't moved out of the RNP national university group, and which makes me wonder if something about our setup and mission (maybe low six-year graduation and first-year retention rates) may make it difficult to ever achieve a numerical ranking without a reworking of the methodology.

as one of the "rank not published" uta is on the carnegie list of 115 top research schools

(09-16-2016 12:22 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  However, saying this, the NC system is corrupt as hell. Ask UNCC about it. They know. They want a med school. You think UNC-CH wants another med program in state? Nope. You think NCSU wants a competing Engineering school? nope.

Same thing that happened when GS asked for a veterinary college and pharmacy school. We had to fight like hell to get our own engineering program that wasn't attached to GT's.