The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I hate my first post after a long hiatus to be on a "pile-on" type of thread but here it goes...

My personal, and probably incorrect, opinion is that the program took a wrong turn with some of the decisions with the assistant coaches. Particularly with Burden leaving ODU at the alter prior to the 2015 signing period.

I get that we don't have 175k to pay receiving coaches but we do have enough money to pay raises to both OC's from the Wilder tree. How many OC's does the team need to run 4 seam's or a draw on 3 and 12? I get that both are excellent at what they do and deserving but they do not recruit the 757 and that is an issue.

Steve Spurrier was on the Jay Mohr show the other day talking about his new book. He said he knew he was done at SC when he stopped recruiting.

I don't really know what happened with Burden, and I may be overrating him, but I'd like to think we could have made a competitive push to keep our best local recruiter and a rising star in the business.

The 757 is different. It is a difficult area to recruit but IMO you can't build a successful program without tapping into the most available and lucrative resource.

After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

(09-11-2016 07:39 AM)odumon84 Wrote:  Wow, until I read the recent threads re BW,I thought he( and WS and the administration) had done a great job establishing a start up FB program.How wrong I was. Now that the scales have fallen from my eyes I now see that it was Divine intervention. I should have known when from a far away land (California) came Thomas the Baptist (Demarco) foretelling of a greater QB to come.... and he did ,a NFL ready QB,that escaped the 3 wise men( Saban,Mayer,Harbaugh) and other coaches wise and not. Like manna from heaven TH dropped into BW's lap. And with him came the others a real OL , WR's by the bushel, and 2 from Hofestra where miraculously FB was disbanded. And for four years there was joy in the promised land ,despite BW having a "sandlot" offensive scheme and no D. TH and the team thrived despite BW and staff.

Now we are back in the wilderness, a wilderness almost has dark as before FB at ODU. The natives are restless, why are we in CUSA we're better than that,why didn't we stay in the CAA and have quaint bus rides to JMU,WM et al. And a new 22k stadium,there's no way out of the wilderness.

I love this post.

By all means we should always be looking. Might find somebody that would be a good replacement for what you have. Even if it is only a QB coach or something and not the head coach.

Lots of people were hating BW yesterday for going for it on 4th instead of kicking Field Goals. He very well might know that our kicker can't do it and there is no fixing it until next season.
He should really look at giving our punter a try at drop kicking though. Give yourself another option.

Right on. We were spoiled for 6 seasons with stellar QB play. Suddenly, we don't have that.

I still think we're a bowl team this year, and the issues that we have can be fixed. That was a good team we lost to yesterday.

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did

We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

IMO I wouldn't judge our performance vs Tennessee. App St is a good Sun Belt team but that's all I wasn't overly impressed. Tennessee clearly looked past App to the VT game it was a trap game. If they played today Tennessee would win 40-10. We have a ton of work to do!

As usual, there has been significant overreaction to what in fact was a pretty darn good effort yesterday. The defense got off to a slow start. Frankly, I think they were wound tighter than the rubber band on my old balsa wood airplane. Once they settled down, they played a solid game. The offense showed it could move the ball against one of the better G5 teams. Unfortunately, the injury to Kirtley forced some 4th down decisions that other wise would have been high success probability field goals. Fact is, we lost to a team that was highly favored, but in no way was this the embarrassment that it was last year.

My hope going into this game was that between App State and NC State, we would be able to steal one of these games we are supposed to lose. From what I observed yesterday, I still have reason to believe that can happen. Time to move on.

(09-11-2016 01:08 PM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  As usual, there has been significant overreaction to what in fact was a pretty darn good effort yesterday. The defense got off to a slow start. Frankly, I think they were wound tighter than the rubber band on my old balsa wood airplane. Once they settled down, they played a solid game. The offense showed it could move the ball against one of the better G5 teams. Unfortunately, the injury to Kirtley forced some 4th down decisions that other wise would have been high success probability field goals. Fact is, we lost to a team that was highly favored, but in no way was this the embarrassment that it was last year.

My hope going into this game was that between App State and NC State, we would be able to steal one of these games we are supposed to lose. From what I observed yesterday, I still have reason to believe that can happen. Time to move on.

I agree. Had the FG been kicked the game would have been alot closer, and the interception in the endzone really hurt as well.

I still think we will miss a bowl by 1 game again this year though, even more so with no kicker.

(09-11-2016 01:18 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 01:08 PM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  As usual, there has been significant overreaction to what in fact was a pretty darn good effort yesterday. The defense got off to a slow start. Frankly, I think they were wound tighter than the rubber band on my old balsa wood airplane. Once they settled down, they played a solid game. The offense showed it could move the ball against one of the better G5 teams. Unfortunately, the injury to Kirtley forced some 4th down decisions that other wise would have been high success probability field goals. Fact is, we lost to a team that was highly favored, but in no way was this the embarrassment that it was last year.

My hope going into this game was that between App State and NC State, we would be able to steal one of these games we are supposed to lose. From what I observed yesterday, I still have reason to believe that can happen. Time to move on.

I agree. Had the FG been kicked the game would have been alot closer, and the interception in the endzone really hurt as well.

I still think we will miss a bowl by 1 game again this year though, even more so with no kicker.

Not having a kicker will likely cost us one or two games this year. Unless he heals quickly, I expect 3-4 wins, down from 5-6. Many of our winnable games come early. We need to win three in a row with UTSA,UNCC & UMass, and will need a kicker to pull that off. Lose one of those three and the road to 6 wins becomes very, very tough.

(09-11-2016 12:46 PM)GhentFan Wrote:  By all means we should always be looking. Might find somebody that would be a good replacement for what you have. Even if it is only a QB coach or something and not the head coach.

Lots of people were hating BW yesterday for going for it on 4th instead of kicking Field Goals. He very well might know that our kicker can't do it and there is no fixing it until next season.
He should really look at giving our punter a try at drop kicking though. Give yourself another option.

I don't have that big of a problem with going for it on fourth down instead of a FG. What I don't understand is going for it on your own 44 in the first quarter

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

If this team wins 6 games this year I will eat all the crowe and take all the abuse you can unload on me. This program will play a bowl game when we recruit FBS PLAYERS. When will we see a Monarch drafted in the NFL? This coaching staff cannot recruit FBS.

(09-11-2016 07:53 PM)TedHead Wrote:  If this team wins 6 games this year I will eat all the crowe and take all the abuse you can unload on me. This program will play a bowl game when we recruit FBS PLAYERS. When will we see a Monarch drafted in the NFL? This coaching staff cannot recruit FBS.

Right on point ! We cannot keep getting 2Star and unrated recruits. We have not had anywhere close to top 5 CUSA recruiting classes. App State has 6 players in the NFL. We barely have 1.

I think we're recruiting the best we possibly can with the relic we are asking kids to come play in. With that said, I think we can win games with our current situation if and when we can open up the offense, using the entire field and the many offensive weapons available to us. And that must start next week.

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(09-11-2016 09:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Curious, since we have Shuler Bentley as the backup. Some on here think SB should have been that starter.....

(09-11-2016 09:34 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Curious, since we have Shuler Bentley as the backup. Some on here think SB should have been that starter.....

Its probably nothing, but it was interesting that BL played in garbage time instead of SB. I also get the sense based on the concern for DW getting injured and comments from a person inside the program that faith in SB is not nearly as high as comments to the media would have you believe.



Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(09-11-2016 09:40 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:34 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 10:17 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  After my initial emotional response to this game, I have come to some conclusions, hopefully a bit more realistic.

Our offense gained more yardage on App than Tennessee did.
Indeed, we have, in the past, gained a lot of yardage between the 20s but had trouble scoring against good defenses.

When the field is compressed our passing game is less effective and our inside run game is easy to stuff.

Outside of the 20s our passing game is still sandlot in that many, if not most of the pass completions are on broken plays, because DW can extend with his legs like as did Heinicke.

We still need to run more, outside with motion. We need misdirection, and we need some short over the middle pass plays to TEs or H backs, going all the way back to the Maryland game.

Yesterday we abandoned the run too early, and even so went back to the inside handoff when we did run.


We knew we would need future O linemen since 2010, and should have, IMHO been more prepared for the loss of Born, Lowney, and Morrell.
To be as unprepared in the kicking game for the loss of Brown and Plisco is also very puzzling.
We certainly seem to have a recruiting issue

This "run inside on third and long", and "pass on 4th and short"; like our screens, hardly ever works, and has not for years.

We need to have a versatile enough scheme to make adjustments.

I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Curious, since we have Shuler Bentley as the backup. Some on here think SB should have been that starter.....

Its probably nothing, but it was interesting that BL played in garbage time instead of SB. I also get the sense based on the concern for DW getting injured and comments from a person inside the program that faith in SB is not nearly as high as comments to the media would have you believe.



Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Hmm, well then you should check those same sources for the inside read on BL. That aside I believe you saw BL because of the needed mobility (our "O" line was not having a great day) which pretty much all agree is not a strong point for SB.

(09-11-2016 09:55 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:40 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:34 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Curious, since we have Shuler Bentley as the backup. Some on here think SB should have been that starter.....

Its probably nothing, but it was interesting that BL played in garbage time instead of SB. I also get the sense based on the concern for DW getting injured and comments from a person inside the program that faith in SB is not nearly as high as comments to the media would have you believe.



Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Hmm, well then you should check those same sources for the inside read on BL. That aside I believe you saw BL because of the needed mobility (our "O" line was not having a great day) which pretty much all agree is not a strong point for SB.

I did, and he didn't know. Hence my post starting with "Its probably nothing".

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(09-11-2016 09:55 PM)ETSUDB8-79 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:40 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:34 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 09:16 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(09-11-2016 03:03 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I was there yesterday. Said this over and over. Where are the short, across the middle passes?? DW needed that option badly. We threw it twice, both successful. It seems as soon as we do something well, we abandon it. No flare to Ray, no option, TE barely involved. WTH??
I did see progress, but mainly defensive progress. I'm really starting to think the OC is in over his head and is the biggest problem we have.
The only thing that has not gotten any better is the boring scheme and lack of imagination.

Did anyone watch their second string QB fake a handoff up the middle, then run around the end with the ball?? He torched us twice and those plays led to their last TD. Where in the hell is our fake hand off, sprint out??
I honestly thought the O line did OK. Their secondary covered well and DW was a little indecisive. Shorter patterns would have helped.

We're too worried about DW getting hurt. #freeDW

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Curious, since we have Shuler Bentley as the backup. Some on here think SB should have been that starter.....

Its probably nothing, but it was interesting that BL played in garbage time instead of SB. I also get the sense based on the concern for DW getting injured and comments from a person inside the program that faith in SB is not nearly as high as comments to the media would have you believe.



Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Hmm, well then you should check those same sources for the inside read on BL. That aside I believe you saw BL because of the needed mobility (our "O" line was not having a great day) which pretty much all agree is not a strong point for SB.

I was looking for improvement from SB in the Hampton game and didn't see it. That was disappointing. But I agree that BL was in Saturday for his mobility (which he had to use).