Dear westernwilly,
Give me the names of lots of schools that have had losing records and post outstanding attendance records game after game. Better yet give me Western's last home game attendance when you were 1-11.
I would never suggest that Eastern drop down to FCS, regardless of attendance.

Attendance matters because once a team gets good and people show up, then they can keep showing up and better players will come into that school. Thats how dynastys form. NIU has more of an AD problem where they poorly negotiate with big schools to play at HS. They also almsot never lose at home, and no P5 wants a piece of NIU in fear of losing.

(09-09-2016 05:46 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear westernwilly,
Give me the names of lots of schools that have had losing records and post outstanding attendance records game after game. Better yet give me Western's last home game attendance when you were 1-11.
I would never suggest that Eastern drop down to FCS, regardless of attendance.

Last home game was November 16, 2013 - Attendence was 22,071. The week before EMU beat us at Ryanearson in front of 2,177.

(09-07-2016 08:43 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(09-07-2016 07:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The reality is that the MAC is second class in the world of college athletics. Accept it and move on.

I don't accept that.

In my view, "second class" needs a bit more context if it is to be meaningful. I prefer to think that for the most part, MAC football (and BB) programs usually put a better product on the gridiron (or court) than is reflected by their attendance numbers.

(09-09-2016 06:26 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(09-07-2016 08:43 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(09-07-2016 07:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The reality is that the MAC is second class in the world of college athletics. Accept it and move on.

I don't accept that.

In my view, "second class" needs a bit more context if it is to be meaningful. I prefer to think that for the most part, MAC football (and BB) programs usually put a better product on the gridiron (or court) than is reflected by their attendance numbers.

I agree with you. The MAC is a good and much more acfordable product that deserves more support from their alums, students, and communities.

Context: ask a guy outside of the Midwest what your school colors are and you'll get the blank stare. Or find a guy at a big 10 school wearing a MAC school shirt.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using CSNbbs mobile app

(09-09-2016 12:52 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 11:57 AM)Terrell Owens Wrote:  I don't understand how people still fail to understand it is tickets sold not butts in the stands.

I dont understand why the NCAA still calls it ATTENDANCE if people arent ATTENDING the games. They should put "tickets sold" in the box score, because the standard for ATTENDANCE does not mean butts in seats... Obviously.

People sure have strong feelings about this, and I'm not sure why. The NCAA lets schools count and report it either way. Both approaches have merit.

Moreover, it isn't like college football is the only place where teams report tickets sold, at whatever price. As I understand it, in pro sports, the line at the bottom of the box score usually reflects tickets sold. We've all seen a pro game where it was a sellout but many people never bothered to show up, because of the weather or whatever.

The reason we pay to attendance in college football is because many of us are looking for data about local interest and the financial health of a program. We know these numbers offer a clue as to which schools will get chosen for attractive bowl games, which schools will get invited to join other conferences, and which schools are able to work out scheduling agreements with desirable opponents in other conferences.

So attendance is interesting. But we also have to accept that attendance, however you define it, is just one measure, far from scientific, and fairly easily manipulated. That's not going to change, and it isn't worth getting all angsty about it.

(09-09-2016 06:26 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(09-07-2016 08:43 AM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(09-07-2016 07:38 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The reality is that the MAC is second class in the world of college athletics. Accept it and move on.

I don't accept that.

In my view, "second class" needs a bit more context if it is to be meaningful. I prefer to think that for the most part, MAC football (and BB) programs usually put a better product on the gridiron (or court) than is reflected by their attendance numbers.

MAC football facilities will never be on par with the elite college football programs. At best they can be alternatives to low level P5 programs and other G5's.

MAC basketball facilities could in some cases compete effectively with the Top 25 basketball programs. Ohio's addition to the Convo is going to move a solid facility into the elite category allowing it to attract a different caliber of player.

Dear westernwilly,
I just watched a replay of the last home game of 2013. Western vs. Central at Waldo Stadium. Very exciting game with big plays. However, if we are going to count actual fans in the stands, there is no way Western had 0ver 22,000 fans. So from now on, please don't carp about how wonderful your actual number of fans are there. Losing has everything to do with the number of fans showing up.

(09-09-2016 08:59 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear westernwilly,
I just watched a replay of the last home game of 2013. Western vs. Central at Waldo Stadium. Very exciting game with big plays. However, if we are going to count actual fans in the stands, there is no way Western had 0ver 22,000 fans. So from now on, please don't carp about how wonderful your actual number of fans are there. Losing has everything to do with the number of fans showing up.

Really!?!
Where did you find it?
Oh. I see. You were pretending to be like the EMU AD, you lied.

Here is the deal for the EMU guys.
I do not care if only a few thousand people show up to your games. If anything, it makes it easier for when Western plays in Ypsi as the lack of a large crowd takes away your home field advantage.

What I do care about is the lying. Your school does it and now it seems that some of your fans do it too. When fans see what Eastern is doing and then they figure that the rest of the MAC is doing it to, then we all become the laughing stock.

That said, there are no schools in this conference that has impressive game attendance. Some are better than others and some are down right dismal. Some schools have been more proactive on building a fan base and getting butts in seats, while others have concentrated their efforts on coming up with creative means to fudge the numbers.

I gave a few examples of how WMU has worked over the years to build their fan base and it is paying off. On the other hand, EMU has gone the fudging route and their just reward has been even fewer people going to their games. As a proud fan of your school, why would you want to defend this practice while watching your program's support continue to go decline?

Demand a change from your athletic department! Yes, the deck is stacked against you with UM just 7 miles away, but that does not mean that you cannot legitimately get 15,000 into your stadium every week. EMU just needs to get creative with marketing.
-Home games when Michigan is away - I know that is not often.
- UM tickets are stupid expensive, so appeal to the more budget minded football fans.
- Create events that are fun for families and all.
- Strippers and beer at half time...........okay that was joke, but it would work.
You get the idea. You are not going to get overnight success doing this, but over time you can create a base.

Dear westernwilly,
No one is lying at Eastern. Look up the Western/Central game on your computer. As others on this website have said, people report tickets sold, and if some sponsor buys up tickets, so be it.
Why don't you be honest? You hate Eastern. It's obvious by your writings You and others are worried that Eastern may have a good team, and that could mean beating Western and others. Of course then it would be a fluke, lucky, whatever.