http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/17487...m-comments

Quote:John Tortorella, the coach of Team USA for the upcoming World Cup of Hockey, isn't backing off on his comments that he'd bench any player who didn't stand for the U.S. national anthem.

On Tuesday, Tortorella told ESPN: "If any of my players sit on the bench for the national anthem, they will sit there the rest of the game." The coach seemed taken aback Wednesday by the reaction to his comment, but he did not backtrack on his stance.

"I'm not backing off," Tortorella said after the team's on-ice workout Wednesday.

"I'll tell you right now. Try to understand me. I'm not criticizing anybody for stepping up and putting their thoughts out there about things. I'm the furthest thing away from being anything political. No chance I'm involved in that stuff," Tortorella said.

But the Columbus Blue Jackets coach says he remains unequivocal in his belief that the flag and the anthem should be sacrosanct. Tortorella has a son who is deployed in Afghanistan for the third time as a member of the U.S. Army Special Forces.

"Listen," he told reporters. "We're in a great country because we can express ourselves. And I am not against expressing yourselves. That's what's great about our country. We can do that. But when there are men and women that give their lives for their flag, for their anthem, have given their lives, continue to put themselves on the line with our services for our flag, for our anthem, families that have been disrupted, traumatic physical injuries, traumatic mental injuries for these people that give us the opportunity to do the things we want to do, there's no chance an anthem and a flag should come into any type of situation where you're trying to make a point.

"It is probably the most disrespectful thing you can do as a U.S. citizen is to bring that in. Because that's our symbol. All for [expressing] yourself. That's what's so great. Everybody does. But no chance when it comes to the flag and the anthem. No chance."

Quote:Team North America defenseman Seth Jones was asked Thursday about Tortorella's comments regarding sitting for the anthem.

"I have no problem with the comments," Jones said. "You're not going to see me sitting down. ... I don't know Kaepernick at all, but I won't sit down. Not even a thought."

Jones, the son of former NBA player Popeye Jones, plays for Tortorella in Columbus and is the highest-drafted African-American in the NHL.

Quote:In a follow-up interview with ESPN's Linda Cohn on Wednesday, Tortorella described what would happen if a player on one of his teams decided to boycott the national anthem.

"On this team here, this World Cup team, there wouldn't even be a player that would think about doing that because I know the guys well enough. We've gone through it," he said. "But if I was ever involved in a situation where someone is trying to make a point, and they have a perfect right to do that, but to disrespect our flag and anthem, as I said yesterday, they would not play.

"If that ever happened, there's no question, it's just not right. And it's not black, white, blue, red. It has nothing to do with the politics of all of this. It's just not right. This is our country. Our people are fighting for our country, our flag and our anthem. That shouldn't come into this equation at all. There are other ways of doing things."

Why does he hate freedom of speech?

(09-09-2016 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why does he hate freedom of speech?

The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

There's a bigger fubar coming up. A woman on the US Women's National Soccer team is expected to disrespect the national anthem while representing her country. To me, that crosses the line and is unacceptable. Huge difference, imo, between do so while on a professional/club team than while representing said country the anthem symbolizes.

Of course, said player has already called the president of her professional club a homophobe because the national anthem was played while the teams were in the locker room and she didn't get a chance to do her little protest last match.

(09-09-2016 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why does he hate freedom of speech?

The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why does he hate freedom of speech?

The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why does he hate freedom of speech?

The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:40 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why does he hate freedom of speech?

The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

(09-09-2016 10:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  The players have a right to express themselves any way they care to. The players do NOT have a right to play in a game.

But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

He can play or not play whoever he wants based on the game or performance level of his players. He cannot however not play someone because of their political leanings.

If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

He can play or not play whoever he wants based on the game or performance level of his players. He cannot however not play someone because of their political leanings.

If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

Everyone has a right to their view points and to express themselves. Everyone also will be responsible for the fallout of their actions. Sure, the player can lose out on playing in games. The coach can lose out if he forfeits games over players taking a stance and the players taking the stance can lose out by refusing to play completely.

IDGAF. I'll probably not watch the game anyways. However, the fans of the team USA will want the players who WANT to play for team USA to show respect to the USA. Therefore...

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

You have no clue what this tournament is about. This is quite likely the most nationalistic tournament in any sport on any continent.

These guys are playing for America, for Canada, for Russia, for whatever. This is about what country has the best hockey players. Period.

Just Google Gary Suter for some perspective.

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

He can play or not play whoever he wants based on the game or performance level of his players. He cannot however not play someone because of their political leanings.

If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

please tell me more about what political stand the player would be taking by kneeling.

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  But what if they are the best players. Does the coach have a right to discriminate against certain players because of their political leanings? Because that is what he is doing here.

What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

He can play or not play whoever he wants based on the game or performance level of his players. He cannot however not play someone because of their political leanings.

If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

You ever played team sports? Coach can not play someone for whatever reason he/she sees fit. Pretty sure not all the other team members feel the same way as one individual so not concerned with anyone protesting the coach in this case. However, there is precedent for what you describe as coaching changes have for many years been player driven.

(09-09-2016 11:31 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:54 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:51 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:48 AM)VA49er Wrote:  Absolutely. The coach is the coach and can pick whomever he/she wants for the team. Pretty sure any coach would go to any means to avoid not playing the best available players though. That's just common sense.

He can pick whomever he wants on the team but once that team is set, he cannot suddenly bench players for their political stance. That is discrimination.

He can play/not play whoever he wants that is on the team. Again, he is the coach. However, not picking the player in the first place would help prevent a spectacle in the first place.

He can play or not play whoever he wants based on the game or performance level of his players. He cannot however not play someone because of their political leanings.

If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

You ever played team sports? Coach can not play someone for whatever reason he/she sees fit. Pretty sure not all the other team members feel the same way as one individual so not concerned with anyone protesting the coach in this case. However, there is precedent for what you describe as coaching changes have for many years been player driven.

havent you heard? Fit coached for 10 years...

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

I have to assume that this is intentional, because you aren't that stupid... yet to draw the comparison you are is pretending to be.

If those Trump supporters put Trump slogans or sticker on their helmets or equipment or did some sort of a 'Trump Gang Sign' during the anthem, absolutely they should sit. Fire them, fine them, whatever. 'On the Job' is not a place for your politics... and certainly not during a salute

Country over 'team'.

(09-09-2016 11:35 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:46 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  What if he said I will bench all Trump supporters? Would you still agree?

I have to assume that this is intentional, because you aren't that stupid... yet to draw the comparison you are is pretending to be.

If those Trump supporters put Trump slogans or sticker on their helmets or equipment or did some sort of a 'Trump Gang Sign' during the anthem, absolutely they should sit. Fire them, fine them, whatever. 'On the Job' is not a place for your politics... and certainly not during a salute

Country over 'team'.

I disagree

(09-09-2016 11:41 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  I disagree

what do you think your pictures have to do with it? Please explain.

You earlier made the comment that a coach can pick a team, but not then choose playing time based on political leanings. As I said, this isn't about political leanings or opinions, but about actions during their 'employment' time.

You should read the NFL collective bargaining agreement. A coach can CERTAINLY bench a player for conduct detrimental to the team (performance) or reputation (public perception). Absolutely they can bench them for adding stickers to their uniforms or the like, in fact it's a league rule that they cannot. Heck, SOME statements (often social or political) are 15 yard penalties... i.e. pre-planned 'celebrations'.

You may not believe that this is the case here (that is it detrimental to the public perception) but that isn't your call... It's the coaches (or the owner's or the league's). If they think that it is, then they can do as they see fit. There IS no 'right to playing time' in sports.

Go ask your boss if you have the right to stage a political protest of ANY kind on company time on company property. That is what is at issue here.

(09-09-2016 11:12 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(09-09-2016 10:56 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If I was the team captain, I would instruct all of my players to kneel in protest of the coach. Let's see him forfeit the game.

You have no clue what this tournament is about. This is quite likely the most nationalistic tournament in any sport on any continent.

These guys are playing for America, for Canada, for Russia, for whatever. This is about what country has the best hockey players. Period.

Just Google Gary Suter for some perspective.

That's why the coach should play his best players regardless of whether or not they stand for the anthem.

I suspect this won't be much of an issue in the whitest of all professional sports in America.