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Only 10 basketball players for this year?
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gotigers1 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-06-2016 02:20 PM)holyterror Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 02:05 PM)shere khan Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 12:59 PM)dfwtxtiger Wrote:  Just browsing through gotigersgo; any walkons?

Let's hope no one gets hurt, early in the season.
It only takes 5

If you're from Hickory...

In that case sometimes it's only 4
09-07-2016 02:46 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 01:50 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 12:01 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Hell, they could have logged in to this board, followed Hoopdreams posts, and gone from there.

So in your opinion, Hoopdreams knows more about recruiting than Tubby Smith and his entire staff? OK, thanks for the input.

Well alrighty then.

Make sense of what Tubby has done (or hasn't done) since April 12th.

Flipped a 2*
Got a grad transfer from Coppin State
Grabbed a dude who hasn't played college ball in four years a couple weeks ago.

Still has four scholarships open.
09-07-2016 02:49 PM
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true_blue_thru_and_thru Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
I don't understand freaking out about a problem before we even know if its a problem? Pretty sure everybody knew this season was going to be a slog if not totally lost due to defections and what remained in the cupboard. In my eyes it was a net positive no matter what because we unloaded Josh's K. I'm fine with us losing games if the team we put out there actually runs an offense and seems to respect their coach by playing hard. Maybe he's gonna suck maybe he's gonna be good who the hell knows but I'm not wringing my hands over it now.
(This post was last modified: 09-07-2016 03:53 PM by true_blue_thru_and_thru.)
09-07-2016 03:52 PM
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Hoots Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
On the surface, it certainly doesn't look very promising. Lots of reasons to believe this season is a throwaway. Still, I'm willing to let the chips fall and see what happens. Without question, our new coach is a huge step up from what we had. I'm gonna bank on that until I see otherwise.
09-07-2016 04:08 PM
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TigersRuleAll Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 03:52 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  I don't understand freaking out about a problem before we even know if its a problem? Pretty sure everybody knew this season was going to be a slog if not totally lost due to defections and what remained in the cupboard. In my eyes it was a net positive no matter what because we unloaded Josh's K. I'm fine with us losing games if the team we put out there actually runs an offense and seems to respect their coach by playing hard. Maybe he's gonna suck maybe he's gonna be good who the hell knows but I'm not wringing my hands over it now.

Once again....this season didn't have to be a slog. Tubby and his staff did next to nothing from March until now when there were literally hundreds of grad transfers available that could have help this team win this season.
09-07-2016 04:12 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 04:08 PM)Hoots Wrote:  On the surface, it certainly doesn't look very promising. Lots of reasons to believe this season is a throwaway. Still, I'm willing to let the chips fall and see what happens. Without question, our new coach is a huge step up from what we had. I'm gonna bank on that until I see otherwise.

On the surface, just beneath the surface, in the middle and at the bottom looks bad. This roster will struggle to have winning record. Who do you think is going to score and rebound other than Dedric?-only proven guy. No high major recruits.

Tubby may be a great coach (I think he is not great but above average) and John Wooden was a great coach: but he always had very good to great players.
09-07-2016 04:14 PM
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BealeStreetTiger Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 04:14 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 04:08 PM)Hoots Wrote:  On the surface, it certainly doesn't look very promising. Lots of reasons to believe this season is a throwaway. Still, I'm willing to let the chips fall and see what happens. Without question, our new coach is a huge step up from what we had. I'm gonna bank on that until I see otherwise.

On the surface, just beneath the surface, in the middle and at the bottom looks bad. This roster will struggle to have winning record. Who do you think is going to score and rebound other than Dedric?-only proven guy. No high major recruits.

Tubby may be a great coach (I think he is not great but above average) and John Wooden was a great coach: but he always had very good to great players.

ZERO recruiting % for now.
09-07-2016 04:30 PM
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MTigerBlue Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 02:49 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 01:50 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 12:01 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  Hell, they could have logged in to this board, followed Hoopdreams posts, and gone from there.

So in your opinion, Hoopdreams knows more about recruiting than Tubby Smith and his entire staff? OK, thanks for the input.

Well alrighty then.

Make sense of what Tubby has done (or hasn't done) since April 12th.

Flipped a 2*
Got a grad transfer from Coppin State
Grabbed a dude who hasn't played college ball in four years a couple weeks ago.

Still has four scholarships open.

No, you must have me confused with some other message board poster who hasn't ever coached, recruited, or won national championships on high level DI teams but thinks he knows more than those who have.

As for me, I gave a wet-behind-the-ears gumdrop who had no business in the big office of the Finch five years of benefit-of-the-doubt before I threw in the towel on him. And I still have some sense of fairness about me. I'll trust that the guy we hired to replace him knows what's best for the team until he proves me wrong. He hasn't done that yet, know-it-all keyboard jockeys notwithstanding.
09-07-2016 05:23 PM
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wylioats Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-06-2016 01:15 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 12:59 PM)dfwtxtiger Wrote:  Just browsing through gotigersgo; any walkons?

Let's hope no one gets hurt, early in the season.

Uh, two of the guys (of the 10) are essentially walkons and given scholarships.

Basically, Tubby came into the job with eight players and two recruits. He kept Rivers but couldn't couldn't hold Moore.

He brought in Kessee who essentially replaced Avery Woodson. He took one of his TT commits (gasp...pulled a Cal) and that guy essentially replaced Randall Broddie, who left.

He then lost Nick Marshall and replaced him with Rykhoeck.

He gave walkon Jake a scholarship.

The rub is that he's been here for 147 days. He had 5 open scholarships when he got here, likely knew Broddie and Marshall were iffy and did nothing but steal his own recruit from Tech and get the Coppin State grad transfer. Then, out of desperation/necessity, got a guy who hasn't played competitive ball in 4+ years.

The word on the street is that he just doesn't give a crap about this season and based on his efforts over the summer to add some decent pieces to a nice nucleus, I might have to agree.

Go ahead and flub this year, then slowly build up the next three or four seasons. Get to the point, four years from now, where a junior and senior laden squad will compete for a conference title, maybe get a 6-8 seed and maybe get Memphis back to their 1st S16 in 11 years.

Retire and push for Saul to get the job.

#BAM

Not picking on you saluki, really not, but I've always loved that term, "the word on the street is". The word on the street is that we were gonna be invited to the big 12, but we all know how that's turned out.
09-07-2016 05:29 PM
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true_blue_thru_and_thru Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 04:12 PM)TigersRuleAll Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 03:52 PM)true_blue_thru_and_thru Wrote:  I don't understand freaking out about a problem before we even know if its a problem? Pretty sure everybody knew this season was going to be a slog if not totally lost due to defections and what remained in the cupboard. In my eyes it was a net positive no matter what because we unloaded Josh's K. I'm fine with us losing games if the team we put out there actually runs an offense and seems to respect their coach by playing hard. Maybe he's gonna suck maybe he's gonna be good who the hell knows but I'm not wringing my hands over it now.

Once again....this season didn't have to be a slog. Tubby and his staff did next to nothing from March until now when there were literally hundreds of grad transfers available that could have help this team win this season.

Guess its just a diff of opinion which is cool. I'm guessing they tried to get grad transfers they wanted and struck out.
09-07-2016 08:18 PM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity
09-07-2016 08:32 PM
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MTigerBlue Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 08:32 PM)jgardne Wrote:  The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity

Then again, if the Big XII expands at the expense of the American, we may end up with another perfect storm situation (basketball-wise) like the one Cal had after everybody good (except us) left C-USA and have a streak of 16-0 seasons in conference. You never know what the future holds.

But regardless of any speculation, the overarching facts that I cannot overlook are that we hired the reigning Big XII men's basketball Coach of the Year whose school offered him a million dollar raise to stay, and some of our fans would like nothing better than to see him fired today. That tells me that one side or the other is probably not playing with a full deck. I have my own perspective on that, and I guess everyone else has a right to his or her own opinions about it.

Here's the question, though. Was he that much better a recruiter five months ago when he was voted the best coach in a much better league?

I suspect it's easier for any given coach to recruit to Memphis than to Texas Tech, but that's more speculation on my part, not proven fact. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Stay tuned.
09-07-2016 09:32 PM
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dwash Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 09:26 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 07:37 PM)dwash Wrote:  Yeah but Cal was recruiting his butt off, but some of his recruits were going pro, not eligible or in general he was just setting his targets too high for what he could realistically get to come here on a regular basis without a recent history of program success. Tubby really looks like he doesn't care.

I know it is difficult for some, but use a little logic:

IF Tubby did not care and IF Tubby was looking to just collect a paycheck or get his son a job, he would have stayed at Texas Tech, he was already there, they loved him, they offered him a million dollars per year raise to stay and he could have gone off into the sunset doing very little and collected a paycheck and been appreciated there ..

Instead he came here to compete for a national championship. He may be old and he may not get it done here but to say he does not care or that he came here for the paycheck is lazy and ignorant.

Sorry but I think he could have been a little more active on the grad transfer scene atleast if he didnt want to make any long term committments. Just imo. Its possible that he knows he cant really get slammed for this seasons talent level and is focusing on other things.
09-07-2016 09:50 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 09:50 PM)dwash Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 09:26 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  
(09-06-2016 07:37 PM)dwash Wrote:  Yeah but Cal was recruiting his butt off, but some of his recruits were going pro, not eligible or in general he was just setting his targets too high for what he could realistically get to come here on a regular basis without a recent history of program success. Tubby really looks like he doesn't care.

I know it is difficult for some, but use a little logic:

IF Tubby did not care and IF Tubby was looking to just collect a paycheck or get his son a job, he would have stayed at Texas Tech, he was already there, they loved him, they offered him a million dollars per year raise to stay and he could have gone off into the sunset doing very little and collected a paycheck and been appreciated there ..

Instead he came here to compete for a national championship. He may be old and he may not get it done here but to say he does not care or that he came here for the paycheck is lazy and ignorant.

Sorry but I think he could have been a little more active on the grad transfer scene atleast if he didnt want to make any long term committments. Just imo. Its possible that he knows he cant really get slammed for this seasons talent level and is focusing on other things.

He will get slammed. Just doesn't know it yet. Cal used to get criticized for margin of victory
09-07-2016 10:01 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 09:32 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 08:32 PM)jgardne Wrote:  The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity

Then again, if the Big XII expands at the expense of the American, we may end up with another perfect storm situation (basketball-wise) like the one Cal had after everybody good (except us) left C-USA and have a streak of 16-0 seasons in conference. You never know what the future holds.

But regardless of any speculation, the overarching facts that I cannot overlook are that we hired the reigning Big XII men's basketball Coach of the Year whose school offered him a million dollar raise to stay, and some of our fans would like nothing better than to see him fired today. That tells me that one side or the other is probably not playing with a full deck. I have my own perspective on that, and I guess everyone else has a right to his or her own opinions about it.

Here's the question, though. Was he that much better a recruiter five months ago when he was voted the best coach in a much better league?

I suspect it's easier for any given coach to recruit to Memphis than to Texas Tech, but that's more speculation on my part, not proven fact. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Stay tuned.

You do realize what his record and talent level was last year at TTU don't you? Coach of the Year or not; BTW that award doesn't mean you are the best coach in the league. Most would say Bill Self and I'm sure Memphis would have hired Self over Tubby if he were available.
09-07-2016 10:08 PM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 09:32 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 08:32 PM)jgardne Wrote:  The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity

Then again, if the Big XII expands at the expense of the American, we may end up with another perfect storm situation (basketball-wise) like the one Cal had after everybody good (except us) left C-USA and have a streak of 16-0 seasons in conference. You never know what the future holds.

But regardless of any speculation, the overarching facts that I cannot overlook are that we hired the reigning Big XII men's basketball Coach of the Year whose school offered him a million dollar raise to stay, and some of our fans would like nothing better than to see him fired today. That tells me that one side or the other is probably not playing with a full deck. I have my own perspective on that, and I guess everyone else has a right to his or her own opinions about it.

Here's the question, though. Was he that much better a recruiter five months ago when he was voted the best coach in a much better league?

I suspect it's easier for any given coach to recruit to Memphis than to Texas Tech, but that's more speculation on my part, not proven fact. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Stay tuned.

I don't want him fired I just want to feel like he's out there trying to improve the team.

Which I don't, because there was no reason to not get more heavily involved in grad transfers. If we had some great young talent we wanted to give all the PT to to develop for the future, I could see that. But we don't have that. Dedric and KJ will be playing 30 minutes a game. Markel is not an underclassman.
09-07-2016 10:42 PM
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MTigerBlue Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 10:08 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 09:32 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 08:32 PM)jgardne Wrote:  The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity

Then again, if the Big XII expands at the expense of the American, we may end up with another perfect storm situation (basketball-wise) like the one Cal had after everybody good (except us) left C-USA and have a streak of 16-0 seasons in conference. You never know what the future holds.

But regardless of any speculation, the overarching facts that I cannot overlook are that we hired the reigning Big XII men's basketball Coach of the Year whose school offered him a million dollar raise to stay, and some of our fans would like nothing better than to see him fired today. That tells me that one side or the other is probably not playing with a full deck. I have my own perspective on that, and I guess everyone else has a right to his or her own opinions about it.

Here's the question, though. Was he that much better a recruiter five months ago when he was voted the best coach in a much better league?

I suspect it's easier for any given coach to recruit to Memphis than to Texas Tech, but that's more speculation on my part, not proven fact. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Stay tuned.

You do realize what his record and talent level was last year at TTU don't you? Coach of the Year or not; BTW that award doesn't mean you are the best coach in the league. Most would say Bill Self and I'm sure Memphis would have hired Self over Tubby if he were available.

Anybody would take Bill Self over Tubby, but that doesn't mean Bill did the best coaching job in the league last year, based on their coaches' perspectives. That's what the award is for.

And winning 19 games in that league, including beating three ranked teams in a row, earning an 8-seed, with the talent level he had is incredible. That's how many games we won in the American playing one of the weakest (#333 out of 351) OOC schedules in the country with a locker room full of 4 and 5-star talent. #126 overall SOS vs #16. No comparison. He does more with less. Take the less (it's OK) . . . and the more (winning is fun) and be happy we don't still have that clown we had this time last year.
09-07-2016 11:00 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 10:42 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I don't want him fired I just want to feel like he's out there trying to improve the team.

Which I don't, because there was no reason to not get more heavily involved in grad transfers. If we had some great young talent we wanted to give all the PT to to develop for the future, I could see that. But we don't have that. Dedric and KJ will be playing 30 minutes a game. Markel is not an underclassman.

You may be exactly right, I don't know. But I suspect there's more that goes into the decision about whether it's a good idea to bring in a particular player for one year than whether he's willing and whether we have an open scholarship. Why is it that most players decide to leave their own school and play for someone else for their final year? Usually it's more about the player than the team. Maybe there are more Dixons than Tarrants. Again, I don't know the reason, but I doubt that it has anything to do with having too many tee times.
09-07-2016 11:06 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 11:06 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 10:42 PM)jgardne Wrote:  I don't want him fired I just want to feel like he's out there trying to improve the team.

Which I don't, because there was no reason to not get more heavily involved in grad transfers. If we had some great young talent we wanted to give all the PT to to develop for the future, I could see that. But we don't have that. Dedric and KJ will be playing 30 minutes a game. Markel is not an underclassman.

You may be exactly right, I don't know. But I suspect there's more that goes into the decision about whether it's a good idea to bring in a particular player for one year than whether he's willing and whether we have an open scholarship. Why is it that most players decide to leave their own school and play for someone else for their final year? Usually it's more about the player than the team. Maybe there are more Dixons than Tarrants. Again, I don't know the reason, but I doubt that it has anything to do with having too many tee times.

Some coaches are very good recruiters of top talent. Cal, Self, Coach K at the top. Mack, Ollie, etc at the next level. Tubby has proven-excluding most of his KY years-that he is a mediocre recruiter and a very good floor coach and his teams overachieve.

I'm not sure Memphis fans will accept that (double digit losses most years). A few have talked of wanting to see a real offense ran and other fundamentals. Most good floor coaches can do that but talented teams will overwhelm that team if it is not talented in MOST games.

Since Cal came and until a few years ago we had a great run with great players with some good role players mixed in. Recruited top kids. So I think that is what expectations are for Tubby.
09-07-2016 11:27 PM
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Penny Lane Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Only 10 basketball players for this year?
(09-07-2016 11:00 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 10:08 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 09:32 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  
(09-07-2016 08:32 PM)jgardne Wrote:  The problem and the reason so many are upset is not so much this year, it's that if you extrapolate this level of poor recruiting and poor effort to the future we

A) won't get anybody good in 2017. We're in with 1 top 100.

B) won't be able to bounce back in the 17-18 season because we won't have a foundation to build on

And

C) will miss out on the loaded 18 and 19 classes because we will be mired in 1998-2002 level mediocrity

Then again, if the Big XII expands at the expense of the American, we may end up with another perfect storm situation (basketball-wise) like the one Cal had after everybody good (except us) left C-USA and have a streak of 16-0 seasons in conference. You never know what the future holds.

But regardless of any speculation, the overarching facts that I cannot overlook are that we hired the reigning Big XII men's basketball Coach of the Year whose school offered him a million dollar raise to stay, and some of our fans would like nothing better than to see him fired today. That tells me that one side or the other is probably not playing with a full deck. I have my own perspective on that, and I guess everyone else has a right to his or her own opinions about it.

Here's the question, though. Was he that much better a recruiter five months ago when he was voted the best coach in a much better league?

I suspect it's easier for any given coach to recruit to Memphis than to Texas Tech, but that's more speculation on my part, not proven fact. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. Stay tuned.

You do realize what his record and talent level was last year at TTU don't you? Coach of the Year or not; BTW that award doesn't mean you are the best coach in the league. Most would say Bill Self and I'm sure Memphis would have hired Self over Tubby if he were available.

Anybody would take Bill Self over Tubby, but that doesn't mean Bill did the best coaching job in the league last year, based on their coaches' perspectives. That's what the award is for.

And winning 19 games in that league, including beating three ranked teams in a row, earning an 8-seed, with the talent level he had is incredible. That's how many games we won in the American playing one of the weakest (#333 out of 351) OOC schedules in the country with a locker room full of 4 and 5-star talent. #126 overall SOS vs #16. No comparison. He does more with less. Take the less (it's OK) . . . and the more (winning is fun) and be happy we don't still have that clown we had this time last year.

The B12 had 7 ranked teams most of season-if you are decent you will win some. If you think we had 4 and 5 star talent at any position other than a HS senior (Dedric) and Shaq (wildly inconsistent) you are very mistaken. I wanted Josh gone before most. Still doesn't make this year any more promising.

He is not putting in time to get butts in the seats either and if he is recruiting all this time, he has failed.
09-07-2016 11:35 PM
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