You're the AD. How would you handle the coaching situation in the following scenarios?

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.

(08-18-2016 05:01 PM)KPJ Wrote:  You're the AD. How would you handle the coaching situation in the following scenarios?

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.

#1). ??????????

#2). Extend CC two additional years.

#3). Murphy gets a really good job offer at maybe 3 x his current salary. It becomes a moot question. Nothing the AD can do.

3 wins or less you stick with cc for one more year and then decide it honestly can take 5 to 6 years to rebuild I'm hoping for some positive direction in terms of winning this year I am satisfied with the management of the program bringing experienced defensive coaches with fbs experience was a solid move recruiting needs to be better but we need to show some wins for that to happen the academics are top in the mac need fans to support the players

NCAA Murphy gone nit Murphy stays another year to get another shot at the ncaas

(08-18-2016 05:01 PM)KPJ Wrote:  You're the AD. How would you handle the coaching situation in the following scenarios?

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.

1. Goodbye Creighton
2. Creighton stays
3. Murphy will accept the first job offer he gets. 

Have to see how the wins and losses play out, injuries, offensive improvement or regression, defensive improvement or regression, etc. etc.

Too many unknowns at this point.

No matter what happens (unless we only win 1 or 2) highly unlikely he gets fired, or extended.

I keep hearing the 5 to 6 year rebuild line. I'm not saying it's wrong, but can someone point to some examples of that?

(08-18-2016 10:52 PM)KPJ Wrote:  I keep hearing the 5 to 6 year rebuild line. I'm not saying it's wrong, but can someone point to some examples of that?

Have to check Joe Novak at NIU (what two decades ago) for a long, slow rebuild. His rebuilt effort was very elongated.

Otherwise, if a team isn't near .500 in year 4, things are dicey.

CC needs at least 3 or 4 wins this year to show the growth potential. Otherwise, it will be that most any team should be able to win 1 or 2 games simply because some opponent(s) failed to show up on any given Saturday (or Friday or Tuesday or whatever day the game is...)

For a team like EMU, 2 wins is the 'floor' and maybe 8 the 'ceiling'.

KPJ, to answer your question: We need to know the length of head coaches' contracts. IF ADs are giving out 5 years, then by 5 years the rebuild should be done. If it is a 4-year contract, then 4 it is.

I might be inclined to go 5 in FB so a HC isn't a lame duck in his 4th season.

(08-18-2016 10:52 PM)KPJ Wrote:  I keep hearing the 5 to 6 year rebuild line. I'm not saying it's wrong, but can someone point to some examples of that?

pretty much every emu coach since rasnick sp has gotten the full five years woody genyk english

Here is Joe Novak's record at NIU.

After 3 very, very tough seasons with the nation's longest losing streak tucked in, NIU started to show progress in year 4 before cracking .500 in year 5 and then going on to win big.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Novak

(08-19-2016 03:33 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(08-18-2016 10:52 PM)KPJ Wrote:  I keep hearing the 5 to 6 year rebuild line. I'm not saying it's wrong, but can someone point to some examples of that?

pretty much every emu coach since rasnick sp has gotten the full five years woody genyk english

My guess, other than to eliminate the 4th year being a 'lame duck' season, 5 years is to long.

If a coach isn't near .500 after the 4th year, it probably won't happen.

Of course, the history of EMU coaches turning a program around with 5 year contracts isn't good (they didn't).

Re: the 5 to 6 years to rebuild.

I'm just trying to remove my fan status and look at things objectively. The NIU example is a good one, but for it to be an established truth, I would think we'd need many more examples than that. Also, I wouldn't agree with using EMU's past decision making process as support for the theory as we aren't competing with ourselves. Even if we were, none of the coaches since Rasnick have actually rebuilt a program here at EMU.

With programs with less than winning traditions I would say a little leeway is in order. But lets try Kevin Wilson at Indiana as an example not a traditional football powerhouse in the B10 but slowly rebuilding and being competitive. Of course IU has the mega donors like John Cougar Mellencamp. Making a coaching change for the shake of making a coaching change doesn't necessarily bring stability to a program. And lets be honest EMU is the toughest FBS coaching job in the country for many many reasons, in the shadow of a program like U of M, profs who 5th column your program in the public, a large number of students commute or work and don't live on campus which contributes to poor attendance, etc. Despite this I do believe football can be successful at EMU just as EMU has enjoyed success in many other sports. It will take patience, dollars and being involved especially at the student and alumni level.

(08-19-2016 05:48 AM)KPJ Wrote:  Re: the 5 to 6 years to rebuild.

I'm just trying to remove my fan status and look at things objectively. The NIU example is a good one, but for it to be an established truth, I would think we'd need many more examples than that. Also, I wouldn't agree with using EMU's past decision making process as support for the theory as we aren't competing with ourselves. Even if we were, none of the coaches since Rasnick have actually rebuilt a program here at EMU.

True.

NIU is probably an outlier, the one in 25 or 50 example. We probably should look at other programs like K(ansas) State, Iowa State, Northwestern, etc. to see other successful rebuilds.

Again we might be playing with outliers, but I do believe at most FBS programs that if I program isn't turned around in 4 years there is no 5th year.

I suspect that by Thanksgiving 2018 we'll know the trajectory of the program...

I do believe that CC needs at least one season (2016 or 17) with at least 4 or 5 wins to be back for his 5th year.

RE: Rasnick. This was 'high water mark' for me as an EMU FB fan. Ron Cooper did a great job recruiting and had the program "rebuilt" (that was his words at the 1994 football banquet). Rasnick, a very good offensive minded coach, won with Cooper's talent.

Ron English got to 6 wins and was right on the doorstep for 3 more if things had gone our way. The 2011 MAC coach of the year was outstanding and we need to hold Creighton to the same standard.

(08-19-2016 06:59 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Ron English got to 6 wins and was right on the doorstep for 3 more if things had gone our way. The 2011 MAC coach of the year was outstanding and we need to hold Creighton to the same standard.

It is true that English, like Cooper, almost had this program headed straight up and then it tanked.

No guarantees in sports (ask UofM with Rich Rod, which lost to Appy State and Toledo).

Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

Odd I recall them "showing" up for the Old Dominion, Ball State Wyoming (does the team not show up when it wins a game?) and CMU games depending on your definition of showing up. Lets not forget POC was injured before the season began and Bell in the first game. Don't disagree that there needs to be improvement on the field.

(08-19-2016 07:21 AM)emdypo Wrote:  Ron English also left a team with all types of internal problems and lacking in talent. Creighton has had to deal will the murder of a student athlete, budget issues, HBO special and a faculty trashing his program, and a losing culture that is by far the hardest program to recruit in the country. So, do I think we give Creighton a blank check, NO. And the fact that he stayed with McCaslin for two years and made very little change to the defensive scheme, shows some serious issues in decision making. Let's not forget how bad this team was last year, we expected them to be better than 2014 and honestly the defense was some how worse, the only game they showed up for was LSU. As much as this is a game of wins and losses, we need to look at product, if we win 4 games and get blown out in the other 8, that's much different then winning four games and losing another 8 by less than a touchdown. We need to show improvement on both sides of the ball, and Creighton needs to show that he is more than a good guy who holds his kids accountable, he needs to show he can coach at this level. Otherwise we are just delaying the next rebuild effort.

How about half a check filled in?

(08-18-2016 05:01 PM)KPJ Wrote:  You're the AD. How would you handle the coaching situation in the following scenarios?

1) EMU Football wins 3 games or less this season.

2) EMU wins 6 games or more this season and makes a bowl.

3) EMU Men's basketball wins 24 games and makes the NCAA tournament.

1. I think three wins is unacceptable with this schedule. Creighton should be fired with 3 wins or less, but I don't know if it will happen. This year should be 4-5 wins, at least. We'll see how it goes.

2. Creighton either takes a middle of the road Big Ten job, or he signs an extension with us. Wouldn't blame him for leaving, when the B1G shells out 3 times as much money as we do.

3. Murph would be gone for sure. But the cabinet will be loaded (unless there is a mass transfer exodus) for the next coach that comes in. We'd have a good lot to choose from. Murphy has set us up well for the next couple of seasons.