(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Exactly. Houston would be the same. The hubris.

(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Case in point, UC played OU in front of ~58k in 2010 in PBS.

(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Big 12 teams don't play OU at home every week, and Pac-12 teams don't get six home games vs. USC. P5 teams also have to play home games vs. 2-10 teams like KU and OSU and everybody else who isn't a football king like Oklahoma, and their coaches schedule one or two unattractive non-con home games in hopes of getting easy Ws, and they have to deal with TV moving their games to 11 am or 7:30 pm on 6 or 12 days notice, and sometimes they're not having a huge season and they still have to find a way to sell tickets, and on and on.

No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

(08-04-2016 11:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Big 12 teams don't play OU at home every week, and Pac-12 teams don't get six home games vs. USC. P5 teams also have to play home games vs. 2-10 teams like KU and OSU and everybody else who isn't a football king like Oklahoma, and their coaches schedule one or two unattractive non-con home games in hopes of getting easy Ws, and they have to deal with TV moving their games to 11 am or 7:30 pm on 6 or 12 days notice, and sometimes they're not having a huge season and they still have to find a way to sell tickets, and on and on.

No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

I'm trying to figure out your point. I mean, you implied that we can't carry attendance, period. Yet, you concede it will work against Texas and Oklahoma. But our attendance might not be as good against KU? Oh, sorry, we were just acting like any other college football program in the country. Judge away.

(08-04-2016 11:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Big 12 teams don't play OU at home every week, and Pac-12 teams don't get six home games vs. USC. P5 teams also have to play home games vs. 2-10 teams like KU and OSU and everybody else who isn't a football king like Oklahoma, and their coaches schedule one or two unattractive non-con home games in hopes of getting easy Ws, and they have to deal with TV moving their games to 11 am or 7:30 pm on 6 or 12 days notice, and sometimes they're not having a huge season and they still have to find a way to sell tickets, and on and on.

No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

I already noted earlier in the thread that TCU saw a 40% rise in season ticket sales two years after joining the Big 12.

No, we wouldn't play OU every week, but we also would no longer play schools that our fans don't care about and bring tens of fans to Houston. We would probably have to expand to 60k just to accommodate visiting fans. I'm pretty sure all the Big 12 schools have Houston alumni chapters. Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, OU, and OK. State all have a significant alumni base in Houston, and combined with the easy drives/flights for those that don't live in Houston, would all bring 10k+.

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston and Cincinnati don't have the fan support that the P5 schools have (with only 3 or 4 exceptions of the 65). That is one area where they are lacking.

Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

No they don't. Duke, Wake Forest and Washington St., yes.
Cincinnati's 4 year average is 31,711. Only a handful of P5 schools averaged less than 40k over that time frame and only those 3 averaged lower.

(08-04-2016 10:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think they do water-down the money long term, but not for the reasons people usually get at. It's not that several of these teams couldn't be mid-level Big 12 teams with some really good years. It's that right now, you have Texas and Oklahoma football representing 20% of the league. The top teams in this sport generate a very disproportionate amount of the revenue. You add two more teams (even comparable to most the rest of the conference) and the average value per teams is likely to drop long term (even if short term, unequal revenue sharing helps).

In other words, median doesn't equal mean.

(08-04-2016 07:39 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 07:30 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rio-080416

Excerpt: Presumably you could get eight of 10 presidents to agree on two schools, perhaps Cincinnati and Houston. Plus, it does the least to alienate the league’s TV partners short of scrapping expansion altogether (which could still happen mind you), and it gives the best hope for a smooth integration of the newbies. The larger you go from there, the more scattershot the final product will become.

People keep saying it will water down the product but fail to realize a few things.

1. Cincy was a BCS school for almost a decade going to two BCS bowl games.

2. BYU is a legit P5 level FB program with a big and dedicated fanbase.

3. Houston just beat FSU in the Peach Bowl.

How is that making the conference loo closer to a G5 than a P5?

Mandel is an idiot.

Not to mention that BYU and Houston were both major players in power conferences for a long time, SWC and WAC, both of whom happened to self-destruct/deteriorate in the similar manner as the old Big East did and how people have been predicting the B12 would.

(08-04-2016 10:41 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston and Cincinnati don't have the fan support that the P5 schools have (with only 3 or 4 exceptions of the 65). That is one area where they are lacking.

Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

I'd agree that Cincy and Houston's fan support would be accurately portrayed as middle of the pack P5, but both of their upsides is considerably higher. UH/OU is sold out at 72k+, and the word from NRG officials is that it will be 2/3rd's UH fans. If you are to believe them, that's in the ball park of 45-50k Coogs. If it were a team of OU's caliber that wasn't so close, we could have sold more. OU obviously ate up their fair share. I also wouldn't be surprised if UH sold out every game at TDECU this year.

There's no doubt that Cincy could also sell out big, showcase-type games at Paul Brown.

Just wondering, what is Cincy's current season ticket base? Granted we're coming off a strong season, but we're at 23-24k right now, which will be close to a 30k final number after adding in the students (which I think most schools include when touting season ticket numbers).

It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could hit 35-40k season tickets with a Big 12 schedule and continued success, as TCU saw a 40% rise two years after joining the Big 12.

You should know better. Houston was in the SWC. We pretty much know what their potential attendance is. They will be low for a P5. I don't think Houston ever did much better than 40k and hit as low as 15k.

(08-05-2016 12:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:41 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston and Cincinnati don't have the fan support that the P5 schools have (with only 3 or 4 exceptions of the 65). That is one area where they are lacking.

Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

I'd agree that Cincy and Houston's fan support would be accurately portrayed as middle of the pack P5, but both of their upsides is considerably higher. UH/OU is sold out at 72k+, and the word from NRG officials is that it will be 2/3rd's UH fans. If you are to believe them, that's in the ball park of 45-50k Coogs. If it were a team of OU's caliber that wasn't so close, we could have sold more. OU obviously ate up their fair share. I also wouldn't be surprised if UH sold out every game at TDECU this year.

There's no doubt that Cincy could also sell out big, showcase-type games at Paul Brown.

Just wondering, what is Cincy's current season ticket base? Granted we're coming off a strong season, but we're at 23-24k right now, which will be close to a 30k final number after adding in the students (which I think most schools include when touting season ticket numbers).

It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could hit 35-40k season tickets with a Big 12 schedule and continued success, as TCU saw a 40% rise two years after joining the Big 12.

You should know better. Houston was in the SWC. We pretty much know what their potential attendance is. They will be low for a P5. I don't think Houston ever did much better than 40k and hit as low as 15k.

Comparing 1970's UH to 2016 UH.. really?

You're better than that.

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

I already noted earlier in the thread that TCU saw a 40% rise in season ticket sales two years after joining the Big 12.

The actual data shows some increase for TCU but not a huge jump up. Utah's percentage increase was even smaller, because their attendance was ahead of TCU's in the MWC.

TCU 2009 average in MWC: 38,187
TCU 2015 average in Big 12: 46,767

Utah 2009 average in MWC: 45,155
Utah 2015 average in Pac-12: 46,533

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  No, we wouldn't play OU every week, but we also would no longer play schools that our fans don't care about and bring tens of fans to Houston.

You would still play teams like that, even in conference games. Kansas football is still in the Big 12. And that's just one of the teams located too far away from Houston to send any significant number of fans to your stadium. Further, any likely divisional alignment in the Big 12 will mean only half of the Texas/Oklahoma teams are in your division; the remainder of the division will be too far away to drive to Houston.

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  We would probably have to expand to 60k just to accommodate visiting fans.

TCU just recently renovated their stadium. They didn't expand to 60,000; they kept their capacity under 50,000. Utah looked at expanding their stadium to 60,000-plus and decided to put that project on hold until a later date.

And IMO that's what any new Big 12 team is looking at. TCU increased attendance 8,000 a game or so; Utah was already close to capacity and decided that the demand didn't increase quickly enough to justify adding 10,000-15,000 new seats.

You can increase ticket prices. And donations should go up quite a bit. But the experience of TCU and Utah shows that 60,000 tickets sold per game is way too much to expect for any team that isn't already close to that number before joining. Also, as Utah (and I assume TCU) found out, it's easier to increase ticket prices and those minimum season-ticket donations when you keep the capacity at the level of overall demand, not the level of Game-Of-The-Year demand.

(08-05-2016 12:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  And IMO that's what any new Big 12 team is looking at. TCU increased attendance 8,000 a game or so;

Okay.

We are going to average close to if not 40k this year. Let's round it off to 38k to give you the benefit of the doubt, and leave some room for under performing. If you want to add the game at NRG of 72k+, that would be an average of 43k. Let's also assume we see a bump of 8k like TCU, since the situations are somewhat similar (they had better attendance than us pre-P5, but I think we have more growth potential).

So, we're looking at a range of 46-51k upon settling into an expanded TDECU (we have plans to expand in increments of 10k up to 60k) and playing in the Big 12.

Is all of that reasonable? If so, those numbers put us above the likes of KU, TCU, and Baylor, and near the likes of K State, OK. State, IA State.

(08-05-2016 12:40 AM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-05-2016 12:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  And IMO that's what any new Big 12 team is looking at. TCU increased attendance 8,000 a game or so;

Okay.

We are going to average close to if not 40k this year. Let's round it off to 38k to give you the benefit of the doubt, and leave some room for under performing. If you want to add the game at NRG of 72k+, that would be an average of 43k. Let's also assume we see a bump of 8k like TCU, since the situations are somewhat similar (they had better attendance than us pre-P5, but I think we have more growth potential).

So, we're looking at a range of 46-51k upon settling into an expanded TDECU (we have plans to expand in increments of 10k up to 60k) and playing in the Big 12.

Is all of that reasonable? If so, those numbers put us above the likes of KU, TCU, and Baylor, and near the likes of K State, OK. State, IA State.

You can get to the TCU level eventually, maybe a bit higher, though I can't compare the two markets exactly. I wouldn't say immediately -- don't overlook everything that TCU and Utah did before "moving up". Utah won 69 games in 7 years including 2 undefeated seasons with BCS bowl wins before being invited to the Pac. TCU won 71 in 7 years before being invited to the Big 12 and that doesn't even include the 13-0 and #2 ranking the year before they started in the Big 12. Winning that much over 7-10 years builds a lot of solid support and that's a big reason their support is where it is now. There's no team in G5 currently that can enter a P5 conference with 7-10 years of momentum like those two teams did.

Attendance isn't the best way to measure fan interest. It's also about what you can charge those fans. We're in an era where even the Yankees' new stadium is 15% smaller than their old one.

UC has a small stadium, but they fill it almost every game. And UC charges more for an average ticket than lower-tier Big Ten teams like Purdue, Illinois, and Indiana. I had a friend tell me what he pays for Illinois season tickets this year (to see Lovie coach!) and it's less than half the cost I paid for entry-level UC season tickets 5 years ago.

If you want to know the size of UC's fanbase, just remember that we brought more fans to the Sugar Bowl than our stadium holds. We consistently outdraw our P-5 opponents at bowl games (Florida, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech (twice), and Duke). The only recent bowl where we haven't outdrawn our opponent was against UNC in Charlotte.

(08-05-2016 12:23 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

I already noted earlier in the thread that TCU saw a 40% rise in season ticket sales two years after joining the Big 12.

The actual data shows some increase for TCU but not a huge jump up. Utah's percentage increase was even smaller, because their attendance was ahead of TCU's in the MWC.

TCU 2009 average in MWC: 38,187
TCU 2015 average in Big 12: 46,767

Utah 2009 average in MWC: 45,155
Utah 2015 average in Pac-12: 46,533

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  No, we wouldn't play OU every week, but we also would no longer play schools that our fans don't care about and bring tens of fans to Houston.

You would still play teams like that, even in conference games. Kansas football is still in the Big 12. And that's just one of the teams located too far away from Houston to send any significant number of fans to your stadium. Further, any likely divisional alignment in the Big 12 will mean only half of the Texas/Oklahoma teams are in your division; the remainder of the division will be too far away to drive to Houston.

(08-04-2016 11:43 PM)Kronke Wrote:  We would probably have to expand to 60k just to accommodate visiting fans.

TCU just recently renovated their stadium. They didn't expand to 60,000; they kept their capacity under 50,000. Utah looked at expanding their stadium to 60,000-plus and decided to put that project on hold until a later date.

And IMO that's what any new Big 12 team is looking at. TCU increased attendance 8,000 a game or so; Utah was already close to capacity and decided that the demand didn't increase quickly enough to justify adding 10,000-15,000 new seats.

You can increase ticket prices. And donations should go up quite a bit. But the experience of TCU and Utah shows that 60,000 tickets sold per game is way too much to expect for any team that isn't already close to that number before joining. Also, as Utah (and I assume TCU) found out, it's easier to increase ticket prices and those minimum season-ticket donations when you keep the capacity at the level of overall demand, not the level of Game-Of-The-Year demand.

This is true. The other thing is that all the candidates are currently playing well, and everyone likes a winner. Only Houston is playing at near TCU/ Utah Go5 levels though, and both TCU and Utsh struggled initially in the move up. Do the fans of these candidate schools show up to watch a team that goes 2-7 in conference? I have doubts.

(08-05-2016 12:10 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston and Cincinnati don't have the fan support that the P5 schools have (with only 3 or 4 exceptions of the 65). That is one area where they are lacking.

Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

No they don't. Duke, Wake Forest and Washington St., yes.
Cincinnati's 4 year average is 31,711. Only a handful of P5 schools averaged less than 40k over that time frame and only those 3 averaged lower.

Because of the size of the stadiums, not because of the amount of support. We could do like everyone else does, build a 55k stadium in the sticks, sell tickets for $5, claim 50K attendance when 20k people show up to the games. It's not that hard of a formula to improve our "attendance". Not worth it though and the people that matter already know the truth. Going to a game at Nippert is 100X better than going to a game somewhere like Purdue and no matter what the schools report as attendance. Everyone that matters knows it.

(08-04-2016 07:39 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 07:30 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rio-080416

Excerpt: Presumably you could get eight of 10 presidents to agree on two schools, perhaps Cincinnati and Houston. Plus, it does the least to alienate the league’s TV partners short of scrapping expansion altogether (which could still happen mind you), and it gives the best hope for a smooth integration of the newbies. The larger you go from there, the more scattershot the final product will become.

People keep saying it will water down the product but fail to realize a few things.

1. Cincy was a BCS school for almost a decade going to two BCS bowl games.

2. BYU is a legit P5 level FB program with a big and dedicated fanbase.

3. Houston just beat FSU in the Peach Bowl.

How is that making the conference loo closer to a G5 than a P5?

Mandel is an idiot.

It's not going to water down jack ****

people that say that don't understand COMPETITION

it will make the league more competitive...

MOST new schools that enter a new conference are competitive in that conference. Texas A&M shocked people by beating Alabama. Mizzou won the SEC East not once but twice. How many ACC championships did Virginia Tech win??

If you like sports and COMPETITION, you want expansion....it keeps things interesting

(08-04-2016 09:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  Houston and Cincinnati don't have the fan support that the P5 schools have (with only 3 or 4 exceptions of the 65). That is one area where they are lacking.

would you say FAN support could be relative to the quality of their opponents?

I mean, if Houston, BYU and Cincinnati are hosting Texas and Oklahoma, their attendance #s are going to go up dramatically

trying to build an argument on attendance is dumb dumb dumb

(08-04-2016 11:35 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 11:14 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 10:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(08-04-2016 09:42 PM)Section 200 Wrote:  Not sure about Houston, but Cincinnati has at least mid pack P5 support. They certainly have more football support than Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Kansas, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse, Boston College, Wash St, Ore St, etc etc etc.

That's exaggerating things by quite a lot.

59 of 65 P5 schools had higher average attendance than Cincinnati in 2015. (2015 attendance numbers here.) In 2014, every P5 team except Wake had higher average attendance. (2014 attendance numbers here.)

Comparing apples to oranges. Put Cal in the MWC and see how they draw.

We're going to play OU in front of 72k+. Memphis played Ole' Miss in front of 60k+. Cincy would sell out Nippert most if not every week with a Big 12 schedule.

Big 12 teams don't play OU at home every week, and Pac-12 teams don't get six home games vs. USC. P5 teams also have to play home games vs. 2-10 teams like KU and OSU and everybody else who isn't a football king like Oklahoma, and their coaches schedule one or two unattractive non-con home games in hopes of getting easy Ws, and they have to deal with TV moving their games to 11 am or 7:30 pm on 6 or 12 days notice, and sometimes they're not having a huge season and they still have to find a way to sell tickets, and on and on.

No one doubles their attendance just by joining a P5 conference. Compare P5 to pre-P5 attendance for Utah and TCU.

Did Louisville's attendance increase after they joined the ACC? Did TCU'S, Colorado's, or Utah's attendance increase because they joined a P5 conference? If their attendance increased then the schools wanting to join the B12 would probably increase too. If their attendance didn't increase, then attendance is not an issue.

(08-04-2016 10:26 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  I think they do water-down the money long term, but not for the reasons people usually get at. It's not that several of these teams couldn't be mid-level Big 12 teams with some really good years. It's that right now, you have Texas and Oklahoma football representing 20% of the league. The top teams in this sport generate a very disproportionate amount of the revenue. You add two more teams (even comparable to most the rest of the conference) and the average value per teams is likely to drop long term (even if short term, unequal revenue sharing helps).

Well said. And to compare with some other expansions, TAMU/Mizzou may not have been on the Alabama, Florida, Georgia level...but they hit right around the middle "value" of the conference. And that middle value of the SEC is quite high. UMD/Rutgers might have been low athletically, but academically/geographically--when you consider the weaknesses of Big Ten schools like Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota--they actually come right in around the middle of the Big Ten pack as well, and that added value to the Big Ten.