(08-01-2016 03:30 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 03:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  But lets get real. The young man is out of school, able to support himself, and not being manipulated.

Yes let's get real... if he had been shot by a cop, we'd be calling him a 'child'.

truth

The kid Milk was raping was not able to consent. There is simply no getting around that fact.

Milk is a rapist. That's actually a pedophile and a rapist.

Reality can be cruel sometimes.

He was a pedophile.

Pure and simple.

Frankly, they should stick with battlefields names and distinguished servicemen.

Ships have been named after Stennis, Vinson and Giffords. The Navy's standards have been shredded a long time ago. That said, Milk has some strong pros (Naval service, civil rights leader) and one seemingly insurmountable con (underage relationship).

(08-01-2016 10:42 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 10:32 AM)john01992 Wrote:  so do you support the sullivan brothers getting a ship?

Normally I would have said no, john..

BUT I didn't think about Killed in Action during a war we're in writing my original post.. So I'd probably have to add a couple of additional criteria that would make you possible worth getting a boat named after you (not a sure thing, just eligible to have one..)

1) Political statesmen of National level
2) Military officers (I'd probably say, Colonels at the lowest rank, unless #3 and #4 come into play)
3) Killed in action during a war in which the US was involved.
4) Meritorious service in the military above and beyond just being in there.
5) Somehow contributed to the growth of the US Navy... (see Henry J. Kasier.. not a problem.. but I'd not want to see a USNS Bill Gates :) )

For instance, I know the USNS John Lewis (the lead boat in the class) is being named after a living us representative, and he's getting one named after him mostly for his civil rights activism.

That one I don't have a problem with at all, since he sits in the US House.

The first criteria, which is violated routinely these days is that the person shouldn't be alive to see the ship commissioned.

(08-02-2016 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 10:42 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 10:32 AM)john01992 Wrote:  so do you support the sullivan brothers getting a ship?

Normally I would have said no, john..

BUT I didn't think about Killed in Action during a war we're in writing my original post.. So I'd probably have to add a couple of additional criteria that would make you possible worth getting a boat named after you (not a sure thing, just eligible to have one..)

1) Political statesmen of National level
2) Military officers (I'd probably say, Colonels at the lowest rank, unless #3 and #4 come into play)
3) Killed in action during a war in which the US was involved.
4) Meritorious service in the military above and beyond just being in there.
5) Somehow contributed to the growth of the US Navy... (see Henry J. Kasier.. not a problem.. but I'd not want to see a USNS Bill Gates :) )

For instance, I know the USNS John Lewis (the lead boat in the class) is being named after a living us representative, and he's getting one named after him mostly for his civil rights activism.

That one I don't have a problem with at all, since he sits in the US House.

The first criteria, which is violated routinely these days is that the person shouldn't be alive to see the ship commissioned.

I used to agree with this Van, but I kinda softened on that one some time ago... I honestly don't remember why that rule went by the wayside.

(08-01-2016 05:02 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  He was a pedophile.

Pure and simple.

Frankly, they should stick with battlefields names and distinguished servicemen.

I'd add American cities and National Parks to that list. There's a lot of floaty things needing names in the Navy.

I'm fine with just giving them numbers.

Even better, stick to naming them after cities, states, towns, etc..

We could do like the Brits and recycle names.

They also do something that is interesting, in that they frequently assign ships of the same class names that being with the same letter--Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Defender, Duncan, or Broadsword, Battleaxe, Boxer, Brilliant, Brazen, Beaver, Brave or Cornwall, Cumberland, Campbeltown, Chatham. That is a bit easier for them since their classes are generally smaller, but it does mean that when you hear a ship name you know what it is generally like.

(08-02-2016 08:28 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  I used to agree with this Van, but I kinda softened on that one some time ago... I honestly don't remember why that rule went by the wayside.

I want to say that ADM burke was the first incident. After breaking the seal it has happened more frequently.

(08-02-2016 09:41 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We could do like the Brits and recycle names.

They also do something that is interesting, in that they frequently assign ships of the same class names that being with the same letter--Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Defender, Duncan, or Broadsword, Battleaxe, Boxer, Brilliant, Brazen, Beaver, Brave or Cornwall, Cumberland, Campbeltown, Chatham. That is a bit easier for them since their classes are generally smaller, but it does mean that when you hear a ship name you know what it is generally like.

I never thought is was a problem and the classes were generally pretty topical. I do wish the USN would do like the UK and name more ships after the 'human spirit' like they do. We'd get names like Defiant, Resurgence and Endurance to go along with Enterprise. I wish they would go back to names subs after fish though.

"Oiler" ...! Ha

(08-02-2016 10:05 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I wish they would go back to names subs after fish though.

USS Eelpout



USS Asian Carp



USS Sunny



USS Batfish

(08-01-2016 12:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 11:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Harvey Milk is a Navy Veteran.

He was an unquestioned civil rights leader. He was assassinated for his leadership. Murdered in the service of American democracy. He gave his life for this country and our freedoms.

When he was 33, he dated a 16 year old. Creepy by contemporary standards (but it was 1962), but is it any worse than Trump's 20 year younger wife? Also, 16 year olds can consent. Milk wasn't his teacher. He had no control over McKinley. In fact, McKinley was instrumental in getting Milk to 'come out'. And McKinley was living as adult, independent of a family that threw him out, earning his own money (actually McKinley brought Milk to SF, not the other way round), making his own decisions. If anything, it was McKinley who drove the relationship, not Milk. By the way, they met when they were both working on the Barry Goldwater campaign.

Few would bat an eyelash about a 33 year old man in the 1950s and early 1960s marrying a 16 year old girl. Especially if both were living independently as adults and out of school.

Of course I wouldn't date a 16 year old, and I understand why today it doesn't seem right. The overwhelming majority of 16-18 year olds today are children, unable to be independent and make independent decisions. But both were legally able to consent, and its not like he's was trolling the school yard for him. Or that for the time, it was considered that out of sorts. Or that there's any evidence of Milk taking advantage of McKinley.

if it was a hetrosexual relationship and he was anything but a gay rights activist I don't think this would be brought up anywhere near as much as it gets brought up.

but for what it is worth. Milk wasn't exactly the greatest guy in the world. there is that relationship, and his outing a gay person who didn't want to be outed just to advance the LGBT agenda. his murder was nothing more than your typical workplace violence and had nothing to do with his political viewpoints.

I see nothing about the guy that warrants his name being attached to one of our Navy vessels. There are countless Naval veterans more appropriate and deserving to honor.

If he were 32 and the 'girl' were 16, he'd have to register as a sex offender... and have all sorts of restrictions put on him. NO community elects that guy today if that is a girl.

I don't believe for a minute that his being gay in any way makes it worse. If anything, he gets away with more, because the gay community, despite not being supportive of pedophiles, has to support him... and some of the straight crowd is afraid of being labeled as homophobic so they stay quiet.

Having said that, again, if it wasn't a crime then, it's not a crime.

(08-01-2016 08:12 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 03:45 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  The military has become a social experiment for the LBGTWQUTERIVDFSJBDSGANFDASIFEWAJW degenerate agenda.

it is the fifth ship in a class that are all being named after civil rights leaders. give me a freaking break.

Then name it the Elton John. Harvey Milk was a disgusting child predator. Not who they gays want representing them. Feeds all their stereotypes.

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(08-01-2016 11:10 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Harvey Milk is a Navy Veteran.

He was an unquestioned civil rights leader. He was assassinated for his leadership. Murdered in the service of American democracy. He gave his life for this country and our freedoms.

When he was 33, he dated a 16 year old. Creepy by contemporary standards (but it was 1962), but is it any worse than Trump's 20 year younger wife? Also, 16 year olds can consent. Milk wasn't his teacher. He had no control over McKinley. In fact, McKinley was instrumental in getting Milk to 'come out'. And McKinley was living as adult, independent of a family that threw him out, earning his own money (actually McKinley brought Milk to SF, not the other way round), making his own decisions. If anything, it was McKinley who drove the relationship, not Milk. By the way, they met when they were both working on the Barry Goldwater campaign.

Few would bat an eyelash about a 33 year old man in the 1950s and early 1960s marrying a 16 year old girl. Especially if both were living independently as adults and out of school.

Of course I wouldn't date a 16 year old, and I understand why today it doesn't seem right. The overwhelming majority of 16-18 year olds today are children, unable to be independent and make independent decisions. But both were legally able to consent, and its not like he's was trolling the school yard for him. Or that for the time, it was considered that out of sorts. Or that there's any evidence of Milk taking advantage of McKinley.

Trump's wife is in her mid 40s so yes, very different. You are defending pederasty. Is that where you want to go? Good luck with that.

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(08-02-2016 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 10:42 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(08-01-2016 10:32 AM)john01992 Wrote:  so do you support the sullivan brothers getting a ship?

Normally I would have said no, john..

BUT I didn't think about Killed in Action during a war we're in writing my original post.. So I'd probably have to add a couple of additional criteria that would make you possible worth getting a boat named after you (not a sure thing, just eligible to have one..)

1) Political statesmen of National level
2) Military officers (I'd probably say, Colonels at the lowest rank, unless #3 and #4 come into play)
3) Killed in action during a war in which the US was involved.
4) Meritorious service in the military above and beyond just being in there.
5) Somehow contributed to the growth of the US Navy... (see Henry J. Kasier.. not a problem.. but I'd not want to see a USNS Bill Gates :) )

For instance, I know the USNS John Lewis (the lead boat in the class) is being named after a living us representative, and he's getting one named after him mostly for his civil rights activism.

That one I don't have a problem with at all, since he sits in the US House.

The first criteria, which is violated routinely these days is that the person shouldn't be alive to see the ship commissioned.

I agree with this criteria personally for ships, street names, statues, parks, schools, a whole lot of things...because if the person is still alive, they can still do something to bring shame and dishonor to the name. better to wait until they're worm food.