(07-12-2016 09:38 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:18 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:02 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 09:52 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  And again...nobody ever asked for proof until the black guy ran. But that's not racist, right?

If a process is needed, then you legislate a process. In the two other cases, the campaigns basically answered the questions. The Obama campaign tried to answer his questioners, and with every response he was met with more nonsense.

So they asked about the "black guy" and that is racist. But asking about the pink dudes just is?

Obama could have ended it with a copy of the birth certificate. Why did he wait years to provide it?

Silly me...all the birtherism totally stopped when he did.

You can't be this naive.

If you can't admit that it basically evaporated, except for the truly crazy, when he provided the birth certificate, you aren't being honest. Again, why did he not provide it years earlier? What did he have to gain by holding it closely?

And, you've driven this away from the original point. The vast majority of criticism for this President is not related to his skin color.

Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

So, you now embrace WND as a news source? Interesting.

Trump is an ass. What more do you want? And, a yougov/huff post poll of 1000 people cannot be used to say 28% of "people" believe he wasn't born here. You are better than this.

Since you won't answer why he didn't release the birth certificate earlier, I'll take it that you agree he withheld it to further his political purposes, ie. to be made a victim of something stupid.

His policies are bad. To say that is not racist. Looping back to the initial argument.

(07-12-2016 09:47 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  How many US Presidents have had to prove citizenship in the past?

Actually Obama is not the first president to have his citizenship questioned. It was quite pervasive back in the 19th century. Off the top of my head Martin Van Buren, James Garfield, Millard Fillmore, James Knox Polk and Chester Arthur were highly suspected of falling outside eligibility.

(07-12-2016 09:47 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  How many US Presidents have had to prove citizenship in the past?

Meaningless.

The question is should they have been required to prove it, and should candidates going forward be required to prove it.

Why is requiring them to demonstrate they meet the very basic qualifications outlined in the Constitution ridiculous?

(07-12-2016 10:00 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:47 AM)uofmcamaro Wrote:  How many US Presidents have had to prove citizenship in the past?

Actually Obama is not the first president to have his citizenship questioned. It was quite pervasive back in the 19th century. Off the top of my head Martin Van Buren, James Garfield, Millard Fillmore, James Knox Polk and Chester Arthur were highly suspected of falling outside eligibility.

Thanks. I would figure it would be something looked in to but didn't know.

(07-11-2016 05:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:28 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:40 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  But Im not talking about the people who dislike his politics. That is legitamate reasons to dislike him. Heck even I dont like everything that he does.

Im talking specifically about the people who questioned his birth in the United States,

Doesn't make one racist.

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  his religion.

Doesn't make one racist.

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  People like Ted Nugent who says obama is subhuman.

Doesn't make one racist.

correct to all the above.....that boy doesn't have a clue...other than his racist views....

So calling someone subhuman is not a racist statement but I am even though I have never called anyone on this forum a racist comment?

Now youre just trolling.

Sub-human isn't a race.

(07-12-2016 10:14 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 05:24 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:28 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:40 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  But Im not talking about the people who dislike his politics. That is legitamate reasons to dislike him. Heck even I dont like everything that he does.

Im talking specifically about the people who questioned his birth in the United States,

Doesn't make one racist.

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  his religion.

Doesn't make one racist.

(07-11-2016 01:34 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  People like Ted Nugent who says obama is subhuman.

Doesn't make one racist.

correct to all the above.....that boy doesn't have a clue...other than his racist views....

So calling someone subhuman is not a racist statement but I am even though I have never called anyone on this forum a racist comment?

Now youre just trolling.

Sub-human isn't a race.

(07-12-2016 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:18 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:02 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 09:52 PM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  So they asked about the "black guy" and that is racist. But asking about the pink dudes just is?

Obama could have ended it with a copy of the birth certificate. Why did he wait years to provide it?

Silly me...all the birtherism totally stopped when he did.

You can't be this naive.

If you can't admit that it basically evaporated, except for the truly crazy, when he provided the birth certificate, you aren't being honest. Again, why did he not provide it years earlier? What did he have to gain by holding it closely?

And, you've driven this away from the original point. The vast majority of criticism for this President is not related to his skin color.

Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

Wrong.

Quote:It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

(07-12-2016 09:58 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

So, you now embrace WND as a news source? Interesting.

Trump is an ass. What more do you want? And, a yougov/huff post poll of 1000 people cannot be used to say 28% of "people" believe he wasn't born here. You are better than this.

Since you won't answer why he didn't release the birth certificate earlier, I'll take it that you agree he withheld it to further his political purposes, ie. to be made a victim of something stupid.

His policies are bad. To say that is not racist. Looping back to the initial argument.

He didn't release because it would not solve anything...and when he did, he proved that. And go find another poll...there are several...and go find another source about Trump...there are several. Trump said he sent a team of investigators to Hawaii after the BC release and claimed that you won't believe what they're finding. To this day, he's still never revealed what they found.

And finally, again, we are not saying that just disagreeing with policy alone is racist and we never have...neither has he.

(07-12-2016 12:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:18 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:02 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Silly me...all the birtherism totally stopped when he did.

You can't be this naive.

If you can't admit that it basically evaporated, except for the truly crazy, when he provided the birth certificate, you aren't being honest. Again, why did he not provide it years earlier? What did he have to gain by holding it closely?

And, you've driven this away from the original point. The vast majority of criticism for this President is not related to his skin color.

Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

Wrong.

Quote:It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Really, everything I've read says the theory originated with Clinton campaign staffers in memo's questioning his "American Roots". Low level Clinton campaign memebers were among the first circulating the birther emails, even as the campaign officially stayed away from the topic. Her campaign essentially planted the seeds of the birther movement.

(07-12-2016 01:28 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 12:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:18 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  If you can't admit that it basically evaporated, except for the truly crazy, when he provided the birth certificate, you aren't being honest. Again, why did he not provide it years earlier? What did he have to gain by holding it closely?

And, you've driven this away from the original point. The vast majority of criticism for this President is not related to his skin color.

Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

Wrong.

Quote:It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Really, everything I've read says the theory originated with Clinton campaign staffers in memo's questioning his "American Roots". Low level Clinton campaign memebers were among the first circulating the birther emails, even as the campaign officially stayed away from the topic. Her campaign essentially planted the seeds of the birther movement.

Could you provide one or more of them?

(07-12-2016 02:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 01:28 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 12:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:40 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Dude, the minute he released it, Trump claimed it was a forgery. And a recent poll says that 28% still believe he was not born in the USA!

Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

Wrong.

Quote:It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Really, everything I've read says the theory originated with Clinton campaign staffers in memo's questioning his "American Roots". Low level Clinton campaign memebers were among the first circulating the birther emails, even as the campaign officially stayed away from the topic. Her campaign essentially planted the seeds of the birther movement.

Could you provide one or more of them?

sorry, busy today and forgot to link.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...008/37952/

That the one to the strategy memo where the want to draw attention to his "limited" American Roots. Somewhere on another site I think it talked about her low lever staffers being the originators of the official "Birther" movement where they outwardly questioned where he was born. The campaign never did make any public claim as such although they sought to push the narrative behind the scenes at a minimum.

(07-12-2016 02:26 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 02:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 01:28 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 12:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well, you have the Clinton 2008 campaign to thank for that. They started the whole birther thing.

Wrong.

Quote:It is certainly interesting, and perhaps historically and politically relevant, that “birther” advocacy may have originated with supporters of Hillary Clinton — especially since many view it as an exclusively right-wing movement. But whether those theories were advocated by Clinton and/or her campaign or simply by Clinton “supporters” is an important distinction. Candidates are expected to be held accountable for the actions of their campaigns. Neither Cruz nor Trump, whose campaign did not respond to our request for backup material, provides any compelling evidence that either Clinton or her campaign had anything to do with starting the so-called birther movement.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Really, everything I've read says the theory originated with Clinton campaign staffers in memo's questioning his "American Roots". Low level Clinton campaign memebers were among the first circulating the birther emails, even as the campaign officially stayed away from the topic. Her campaign essentially planted the seeds of the birther movement.

Could you provide one or more of them?

sorry, busy today and forgot to link.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...008/37952/

That the one to the strategy memo where the want to draw attention to his "limited" American Roots. Somewhere on another site I think it talked about her low lever staffers being the originators of the official "Birther" movement where they outwardly questioned where he was born. The campaign never did make any public claim as such although they sought to push the narrative behind the scenes at a minimum.

Thanks. Although to me, that campaign tactic doesn't have the same cachet as saying he wasn't born here like the birther stuff claimed. It's more of him not having American values and such. It's more of a straight our racist tact of him being black, to me, than one of birtherism...which is actually mostly racist as well. Regardless, it was never anything wholly pursued by the overall Clinton campaign and certainly not by her. Likely because it just doesn't work.

(07-12-2016 03:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 02:26 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 02:08 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 01:28 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 12:46 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Wrong.

Was Hillary Clinton the Original ‘Birther’?

Really, everything I've read says the theory originated with Clinton campaign staffers in memo's questioning his "American Roots". Low level Clinton campaign memebers were among the first circulating the birther emails, even as the campaign officially stayed away from the topic. Her campaign essentially planted the seeds of the birther movement.

Could you provide one or more of them?

sorry, busy today and forgot to link.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...008/37952/

That the one to the strategy memo where the want to draw attention to his "limited" American Roots. Somewhere on another site I think it talked about her low lever staffers being the originators of the official "Birther" movement where they outwardly questioned where he was born. The campaign never did make any public claim as such although they sought to push the narrative behind the scenes at a minimum.

Thanks. Although to me, that campaign tactic doesn't have the same cachet as saying he wasn't born here like the birther stuff claimed. It's more of him not having American values and such. It's more of a straight our racist tact of him being black, to me, than one of birtherism...which is actually mostly racist as well. Regardless, it was never anything wholly pursued by the overall Clinton campaign and certainly not by her. Likely because it just doesn't work.

Politics at it's best.

Or rather, worst. But more, its usual.

(07-12-2016 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Or rather, worst. But more, its usual.

Yep