(07-11-2016 06:35 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:51 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 12:42 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  What you described isn't a black / white issue, it's economic. I seem to recall a wealthy black guy named OJ got some preferential treatment.

That was what the end of my post pointed out, however it is worth noting that there is a much higher percentage of Black Poverty in this country than White Poverty. That ultimately explains why the percentage of blacks in prisons is so much higher.

It's a myth that poverty causes someone to be criminal. My wife is a retired teacher who taught - voluntarily I might add - at some of the worst inner city schools in Winston Salem. Kids living under the same low economic conditions turned out completely different. Some were awesome kids who were polite, respectful and studied hard who went on to become model citizens and contributing members of society. Others are now in prison. The issue has more to do with strong parents and the lack of 2 parents in the home. I grew up in a small cotton mill town in rural NC. Our schools were integrated in the late 60's. All those black kids lived what today most would consider in poverty, but most had 2 parent families with strong ethics and values. We didn't have a moments trouble with integration. All those folks were good people and many remain great friends to this day.

So you don't think being poor has an impact on how family dynamics play out?

I wonder if black people getting disproportionately longer sentences for the same crimes as their white counterpart has something to do with less 2 parent households.

I also wonder if growing up in a single income family also makes you more likely to grow up in an impoverished area where rampant drug use and crime is commonplace.

I wonder if growing up in a poor area with bad schools where your greatest economic opportunity is to join in the selling of these drugs while actively being recruited by gangs, because of the cheap labor and limited legal consequences on minors, has any impact on whether or not an individual decides to sell them at an early age.

I wonder if having ample access and opportunity to use these drugs has an impact on whether that person uses them or not.

I wonder if drug addicts are more likely or less likely to commit crimes, go to jail for a long time, and create an absentee situation in which their kid has to grow up in the same crime filled neighborhood as their parents.

I wonder if the justice system, who are the ones responsible for policing these crimes, recognize this cycle and develop a bias toward generalizing these people into an over-arching group through an obvious outward trait most all of them share, like their skin color.

Anecdotal evidence of how some poor black people you knew that escaped this vicious cycle is great and all but it doesn't help the people who can't. We are how we are socialized and unfortunately poor people (not just blacks but they are targeted and caught more) are exposed to a much harsher reality of drugs and crime than middle class people and up. None of this is making excuses for criminal behavior and personal responsibility can always elevate a person/family out of these circumstances but i would think rationalized personal responsibility is not a common theme among 14 year old drug selling gang members.

I don't think the BLM movement is trying to bring awareness to the regular law abiding black people that you see and work with everyday, it is to bring awareness to the marginalized and forgotten youth that have been getting shafted by law enforcement for generations. It is also a vehicle to galvanize their own culture in a unifying attempt to stop the senseless violence they face at the hands of their own misguided criminal subculture.

I know I'm speaking in generalities and this is going to sound like a regressive apologetics defense of criminals but that is not my intent. I am just trying to better understand a common sequence of events that might help explain the general causes of the situation we are all in as Americans. Saying black people just need to grow up in better households does not help solve the problem.

I wonder if you are looking for excuses or solutions . . . our buttons are being pushed. We are reacting predictably. Sad.

If anyone is interested here's a link to the Candlelight Vigil in Dallas

http://www.dallascitynews.net/watch-live

"Well done my good and faithful servant"

Our justice system is similar to the way P5's and G5's are treated... This is my only comment on this matter. You decide if P5's and G5's are treated equally.

I wonder if you are looking for excuses or solutions . . . our buttons are being pushed. We are reacting predictably. Sad.
[/quote]

This is a college sports message board, Im not looking for detailed solutions here and I'm not making excuses either Im just trying to have a conversation about the issue. I stated multiple times that personal responsibility can get you out of this cycle but to say there are not legitimate factors that skew peoples behavior in certain situations and surroundings is intellectually dishonest. Dismissing peoples grievances without examining why they are making those grievances only promotes further conflict. If you disagree with something I said make an argument against it, don't just spout a couple lines of platitudes and call it a day.

(07-11-2016 10:53 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  I wonder if you are looking for excuses or solutions . . . our buttons are being pushed. We are reacting predictably. Sad.

This is a college sports message board, Im not looking for detailed solutions here and I'm not making excuses either Im just trying to have a conversation about the issue. I stated multiple times that personal responsibility can get you out of this cycle but to say there are not legitimate factors that skew peoples behavior in certain situations and surroundings is intellectually dishonest. Dismissing peoples grievances without examining why they are making those grievances only promotes further conflict. If you disagree with something I said make an argument against it, don't just spout a couple lines of platitudes and call it a day.
[/quote]

They are certain factors that lead to certain things but our government can't create a budget much less start fixing these social issues in a timely manner. Personal responsibility can start tomorrow and would go a long way. Another point that gets lost when talking about personal responsibility and raising better children is I don't suggest this is a black thing. It's an American thing, everybody needs to. People aren't born racist, they are raised that way. Money doesn't prevent you from being ignorant. It will take everyone to start raising their kids to respect everyone, be polite, respect authority and be personably accountable for all your actions. Black,white,Hispanic,Asian,rich,poor,middle class whatever. If you want to wait on someone else to fix everything you are part of the dependence society. If we start raising better people, over time those things will get fixed because you will have good people in charge. This country has been divided racially for a long time and it hasn't worked...maybe we should try something different.

Side story about raising children in today's world. I learn a lot from my kids, maybe more than they learn from me. I have two children (6 and 4) and we try and raise them to be respectful to everyone. We've never discussed race with them and they grew up in day care with white, black, and hispanic kids and adults as care providers. Last year we began taking them to NBA games and my oldest made a comment at the start of the game - "why are all the players brown". I'd never thought about how the world looked through her eyes until that moment and wished I was more like her. Her kindergarten class was fairly diverse (60% non-white, with black, hispanic, and various asian students) and I'm interested to see how the school system impacts her perspective as she grows.

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

It's Fox. The Irrational and stupidity quotient is pretty high for the viewers of that program.

(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

I think the "eliminate all police" argument is interesting (not feasible, but interesting) because, in a way, it unites an extremely "left" (WhateverTF that means anymore) position with views of extreme libertarians who feel that EVERYTHING works better when it's privatized. They both seem like baby and bathwater views to me, and they're both going to require some concession to the other end of the spectrum for any progress to be made.

I think everyone on this board could agree that if everyone were to take personal responsibility for their own actions, we'd get out of this mess. Hell, if everyone were really honest about it, we COULD eliminate the police. But it's not going to happen, so we have to figure out how we, as a group of fellow citizens, are going to make our country better. And for ALL of us, it's going to involve some concession to those who disagree with us.

Even if you're right, you're going to have to concede something. Even if the revolution you have in mind actually IS the key to stopping what everyone perceives as a vicious cycle, it's not going to happen. We fought a revolution to set up a government where revolutions aren't necessary...or at least easily achievable...anymore. We ARE capable of working together, but most of us will have to get less than what we want out of the deal. At times, we may even have to actually examine our own values and come out of the argument with a different opinion! (Now THAT would be a revolution!)

Of course, one thing our two-party system does pretty well is to ultimately put people in power who are actually pretty moderate (however extreme your news source wants to portray Obama, or Hillary, or W, or whoever). So we'll probably end up being okay here. But until then, the blame game is just going to make us angrier and angrier.

Final, unrelated thought: For those of you who, like me, were born in the 70s and grew up in the south, if you really think that race can't be an issue in the way "the system" plays out, you either (1) grew up in a place very different from where I did, or (2) are ignoring something that you've observed somewhere along the way. I can't believe the openness with which racist white folks are still willing to be racist around me, apparently assuming that I'll agree because I'm white too. I'd be naive to think that this doesn't play itself out as prejudice from those in authority at times. Does that mean every example we're shown is about race? That race is the only factor? Of course not. But I can't deny that it's there.

Can't wait to hear the response.

(07-12-2016 11:28 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

I think the "eliminate all police" argument is interesting (not feasible, but interesting) because, in a way, it unites an extremely "left" (WhateverTF that means anymore) position with views of extreme libertarians who feel that EVERYTHING works better when it's privatized. They both seem like baby and bathwater views to me, and they're both going to require some concession to the other end of the spectrum for any progress to be made.

I think everyone on this board could agree that if everyone were to take personal responsibility for their own actions, we'd get out of this mess. Hell, if everyone were really honest about it, we COULD eliminate the police. But it's not going to happen, so we have to figure out how we, as a group of fellow citizens, are going to make our country better. And for ALL of us, it's going to involve some concession to those who disagree with us.

Even if you're right, you're going to have to concede something. Even if the revolution you have in mind actually IS the key to stopping what everyone perceives as a vicious cycle, it's not going to happen. We fought a revolution to set up a government where revolutions aren't necessary...or at least easily achievable...anymore. We ARE capable of working together, but most of us will have to get less than what we want out of the deal. At times, we may even have to actually examine our own values and come out of the argument with a different opinion! (Now THAT would be a revolution!)

Of course, one thing our two-party system does pretty well is to ultimately put people in power who are actually pretty moderate (however extreme your news source wants to portray Obama, or Hillary, or W, or whoever). So we'll probably end up being okay here. But until then, the blame game is just going to make us angrier and angrier.

Final, unrelated thought: For those of you who, like me, were born in the 70s and grew up in the south, if you really think that race can't be an issue in the way "the system" plays out, you either (1) grew up in a place very different from where I did, or (2) are ignoring something that you've observed somewhere along the way. I can't believe the openness with which racist white folks are still willing to be racist around me, apparently assuming that I'll agree because I'm white too. I'd be naive to think that this doesn't play itself out as prejudice from those in authority at times. Does that mean every example we're shown is about race? That race is the only factor? Of course not. But I can't deny that it's there.

Another big misconception that never gets talked about because of how sensitive the sun just is... Racist aren't limited to white people. There are racists in all kinds. This effort will take EVERYONE looking in the mirror. I also don't know when it became forbidden for people to disagree on things. I don't agree with a lot of things people do or think but that's ok. A lot of people feel today if you disagree or don't approve you are somehow attacking them. Personally JMO I think it wil get worse before its gets better, I hope I'm wrong...there are too many uneducated,ignorant, and angry people in this country to simply work it out.

(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

I agree with that, for the most part, but not everyone is able to or capable of those rigors. Hats off to all that do and especially those that are good at it. I understand that philosophy of if you want it done right, but I don't think it applies here simply because of the timing.

I can surely appreciate the candor in which all have participated. My hopes and prayers are that WE, as Americans, can change our country's climate to something far more constructive in the very near future.

sent from my HTC using Tapatalk

(07-12-2016 11:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

It's Fox. The Irrational and stupidity quotient is pretty high for the viewers of that program.

And anyone who would use such a generalization for an entire network's viewers could very well have such a high stupidity quotient.

(07-11-2016 06:37 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:51 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 12:42 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  What you described isn't a black / white issue, it's economic. I seem to recall a wealthy black guy named OJ got some preferential treatment.

That was what the end of my post pointed out, however it is worth noting that there is a much higher percentage of Black Poverty in this country than White Poverty. That ultimately explains why the percentage of blacks in prisons is so much higher.

It's a myth that poverty causes someone to be criminal. My wife is a retired teacher who taught - voluntarily I might add - at some of the worst inner city schools in Winston Salem. Kids living under the same low economic conditions turned out completely different. Some were awesome kids who were polite, respectful and studied hard who went on to become model citizens and contributing members of society. Others are now in prison. The issue has more to do with strong parents and the lack of 2 parents in the home. I grew up in a small cotton mill town in rural NC. Our schools were integrated in the late 60's. All those black kids lived what today most would consider in poverty, but most had 2 parent families with strong ethics and values. We didn't have a moments trouble with integration. All those folks were good people and many remain great friends to this day.

I've taught in high poverty school as well, and you are right that Poverty doesn't cause crime, but it certainly can make life more difficult for someone who gets accused for a crime.

The numbers are stark, but of the innocent people who are in prison today,a large portion of them come from High Poverty...and are likely there because they dealt with public defenders who encouraged them to plea out. Faced with a year in jail for a crime they didn't commit, or a trial for a crime they didn't commit and a 7 year jail term if found guilty, they often took the lesser of two evils.

I've had students who became the first person in their family go to college, and I also have students who are currently in the Arkansas Prison System.

In my opinion, the executive branch (i.e., the cops) are the LEAST to blame. They (the vast majority I'd like to believe) arrest people who they believe have broken a law punishable as a jail able offense then hand them off to the judicial system, which is what I believe Chief's point was as well.

But hey, we've also got ourselves to blame most of all, for (many of us) electing politicians to preside over cases and (all of us) giving government jobs to legislators who've successfully turned almost every single one of us into felons by creating way too many laws - so many, most of us don't even realize we've just committed a felony. In fact, many experts say the average American commits up to 3 felonies per day unknowingly. Example: in my own state, it's a felony to carry a gun within 1500 feet of a school. I have a concealed carry permit. I don't have a clue if I'm within 1500 feet of a school (there are many when one includes small private schools) when I'm driving down most streets in my town.

Another HUGE problem I see is now we're prosecuting 8 and 12 year olds in school now for "crimes" most kids have committed in school over the centuries (i.e., little Bobby pulling on Little Susie's pony tail = arrested for sexual assault nowadays). Once you're in the system, even at such young ages, you're life of crime has begun and it's hard to find your way out of it.

It all gets down to SOCIETY'S failure to elect the correct executives and jurors who can initiate needed change, again and again and again. Fact is, our legal system is the very best in the world that money can buy. Many caught up in our judicial system have little to NO money. And like Chief pointed out, that's one of the largest pieces to this puzzle.

Just my 2¢.

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

Timothy 2:12 - I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; She must be quiet.

I think its time to remove this and allow more women to become police officers.

#BeMoreChristLike

(07-12-2016 03:08 PM)airtroop Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 06:37 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 04:51 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 01:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 12:42 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  What you described isn't a black / white issue, it's economic. I seem to recall a wealthy black guy named OJ got some preferential treatment.

That was what the end of my post pointed out, however it is worth noting that there is a much higher percentage of Black Poverty in this country than White Poverty. That ultimately explains why the percentage of blacks in prisons is so much higher.

It's a myth that poverty causes someone to be criminal. My wife is a retired teacher who taught - voluntarily I might add - at some of the worst inner city schools in Winston Salem. Kids living under the same low economic conditions turned out completely different. Some were awesome kids who were polite, respectful and studied hard who went on to become model citizens and contributing members of society. Others are now in prison. The issue has more to do with strong parents and the lack of 2 parents in the home. I grew up in a small cotton mill town in rural NC. Our schools were integrated in the late 60's. All those black kids lived what today most would consider in poverty, but most had 2 parent families with strong ethics and values. We didn't have a moments trouble with integration. All those folks were good people and many remain great friends to this day.

I've taught in high poverty school as well, and you are right that Poverty doesn't cause crime, but it certainly can make life more difficult for someone who gets accused for a crime.

The numbers are stark, but of the innocent people who are in prison today,a large portion of them come from High Poverty...and are likely there because they dealt with public defenders who encouraged them to plea out. Faced with a year in jail for a crime they didn't commit, or a trial for a crime they didn't commit and a 7 year jail term if found guilty, they often took the lesser of two evils.

I've had students who became the first person in their family go to college, and I also have students who are currently in the Arkansas Prison System.

In my opinion, the executive branch (i.e., the cops) are the LEAST to blame. They (the vast majority I'd like to believe) arrest people who they believe have broken a law punishable as a jail able offense then hand them off to the judicial system, which is what I believe Chief's point was as well.

But hey, we've also got ourselves to blame most of all, for (many of us) electing politicians to preside over cases and (all of us) giving government jobs to legislators who've successfully turned almost every single one of us into felons by creating way too many laws - so many, most of us don't even realize we've just committed a felony. In fact, many experts say the average American commits up to 3 felonies per day unknowingly. Example: in my own state, it's a felony to carry a gun within 1500 feet of a school. I have a concealed carry permit. I don't have a clue if I'm within 1500 feet of a school (there are many when one includes small private schools) when I'm driving down most streets in my town.

Another HUGE problem I see is now we're prosecuting 8 and 12 year olds in school now for "crimes" most kids have committed in school over the centuries (i.e., little Bobby pulling on Little Susie's pony tail = arrested for sexual assault nowadays). Once you're in the system, even at such young ages, you're life of crime has begun and it's hard to find your way out of it.

It all gets down to SOCIETY'S failure to elect the correct executives and jurors who can initiate needed change, again and again and again. Fact is, our legal system is the very best in the world that money can buy. Many caught up in our judicial system have little to NO money. And like Chief pointed out, that's one of the largest pieces to this puzzle.

Just my 2¢.

Some of that is simply society's increasing awareness to violence around children. I fully remember when I was in the 4th and 5th grade being allowed to wander through the neighborhood on my own. As long as my parents knew where I was headed, and as long as I knew what time to be back, there were few issues. I'd walk sometimes three quarters of a mile to a friends house, and walk back a couple hours later.

Simply put, there are fewer people today who would allow their child to wander that far off on their own. This isn't because they don't trust their kids, but they don't trust others their kids may be around at that moment.

You talk about school issues that used to be common occurrence that are now taken far more seriously, and that's very true, but I'm not sure that's a result of politicians, or more of a result of society simply being more aware of issues that affect kids. If you think about it, bullying was not a major deal even 20 years ago. School bully's were a fact of life, and parents usually went about educating their kids about how to deal with those kids. But as you see more and more incidents of kids harming themselves because of bullying, schools quickly moved to stop the issue.

(07-12-2016 05:19 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

Timothy 2:12 - I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; She must be quiet.

I think its time to remove this and allow more women to become police officers.

#BeMoreChristLike

Huh?

(07-12-2016 03:07 PM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 11:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  

(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.

Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

It's Fox. The Irrational and stupidity quotient is pretty high for the viewers of that program.

And anyone who would use such a generalization for an entire network's viewers could very well have such a high stupidity quotient.

+1. I guess I'm irrational and stupid. Nice brush you have there chief.

(07-11-2016 12:30 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-11-2016 12:26 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Ark30inf

Many white people choose to ignore that the justice system is indeed systematically biased against African-Americans.

I've heard this tossed around for longer than I can recall, yet no one has been able to prove it. Simply using numbers of blacks in jail or arrest records is not an accurate measurement. To say law enforcement or judges intentionally deal with black people more harshly is just plain wrong.
[/quote]

If a Priviledged White man was arrested for a crime, he gets to spend millions on a strong defense team to work to get him out of the charge, or to reduce the jail time, with sweetheart deals for Federal prisons

If a Poor Black Man was arrested for the same crime, he'd get stuck with a Public Defender, who doesn't know him from Adam, is probably balancing 12 case loads, and works in a closet that he calls an office that has no money to spend on the guys defense. He likely ends up being encouraged to plead guity for a lesser sentence, despite the fact he may or may not have committed the crime in question.

Perhaps the only change that should be made is that it's more biased based on Social/Economic class, but it is very biased.
[/quote]


That's a piss poor analogy. If a poor white man is arrested for the same crime, he'd get stuck with a public defender that doesn't know him from Adam who'd encourage him to plead guilty to a lesser crime. If a privileged Black man gets arrested, he gets to spend money on an expensive defense team to get him off. Just look at OJ.

You've also shown you have no knowledge of the Memphis bridge or just like to distort reality to push own your agenda. Just because they aren't directly under the support beams of the bridge doesn't mean they didn't get stuck. There's around three miles of elevated interstate in Arkansas from the last access point until you get over the bridge. There were hundreds of people stuck for hours. There was a family taking their child that needed medical attention to Lebonheur, but got stuck. They had to wait for an ambulance that came up the wrong way side of the interstate and then pass him over a barrier so they could go around to the I-55 bridge.