Woody Hayes, who hated the forward pass, said that when the ball was thrown two of the three possible outcomes were bad. I presume he meant incomplete or interception. A completed pass for positive yards was the favorable outcome.

A parallelism is with coaching changes, either because the incumbent gets a new job, retires, etc. OR is replaced at the AD's choice.

Wright State (MBB) decided to let their coach go despite what seemed like an impressive record.

EMU (WBB) had to replace a head coach who took a job a little higher up the coaching ladder.

Sometimes the outcome can be positive BUT sometimes can be a negative.

I don't know how Wright State is doing (I'll check sometime) but EMU seems to be suffering with an involuntary coaching change.

A poster on the WBB thread indicated that Janay Morton indicated on social media that she's transferring.

I stumbled across this Tweet while doing my "Eastern Michigan" Tweet searches.

"Jordan StrackVerified account ‏@JordanStrack Jun 28

Rogers HS Grad Cha'Ron Sweeney is leaving the Eastern Michigan Women's
Basketball team to join Georgia Tech as a grad transfer."

I am NOT saying anything negative about the new coach, BUT SIMPLY indicating that whenever there are coaching changes there could be unpleasant consequences which might not have occurred without the coaching change. It is not unusual for players or recruits to be upset. Their loyalty might be with someone no longer there. I've seen this with the MBB program over the years. (I believe there was a significant exodus after Braun left EMU).

SADLY, very sadly, the EMU WBB program was really hurt if both indeed transfer. Fate dealt us a tough break. The new coach did not get any good breaks as he begins his journey...

Those of us who have been around EMU MBB for two decades remember when Gary Waters left and then Ben Braun six month later.

Our tremendous MBB program suffered as soon as those players graduated.

IF I were an AD I'd be reluctant to make changes unless there were compelling reasons (e.g., poor record, NCAA violations, legal issues, etc.) and I'd pray I'd be able to keep a good coach...

And I'd fear that 3 a.m. call (or e-mail) that a player did something bad (or something bad happened to him or her) or that a rumor is out there that my coach is leaving or a key player is transferring.

To paraphrase, at 3 a.m. in college sports nothing good happens...

Dear steve,
There are not too many coaches that want to make Eastern heir final stop in coaching. If they have success here, then they look at opportunities that may come along. Most coaches want to move to the bigger programs. Verdi and Braun both did when the opportunity came. Even if Eastern offered significant pay increases for them to stay, as I have already stated, they want to move to the big time. There is nothing one can do about this as an athletic director. You have to try to keep what you have and move on.

(06-30-2016 10:07 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear steve,
There are not too many coaches that want to make Eastern heir final stop in coaching. If they have success here, then they look at opportunities that may come along. Most coaches want to move to the bigger programs. Verdi and Braun both did when the opportunity came. Even if Eastern offered significant pay increases for them to stay, as I have already stated, they want to move to the big time. There is nothing one can do about this as an athletic director. You have to try to keep what you have and move on.

That is true.

What I tried to indicate is that the scenario you described happens (Waters, Braun, Verdi, Ron Cooper [FB], etc.) but that some coaching changes are made by the AD.

That was the reference to Wright State who fired (or whatever) a coach with I believe 22 wins last season. EDIT: 22 - 13 (13 - 5).

How does an AD let a HC go who is 13 - 5 in conference? I'd throw a parade instead. Lol.

I'm referring to the 'grass is greener' belief.

We see that with fans who are willing to fire a head coach, manager, etc. in professional or college sports at the drop of a hat...

It will be interesting to see where both end up landing. Any bets on UMass?

(06-30-2016 11:07 AM)emu79 Wrote:  It will be interesting to see where both end up landing. Any bets on UMass?

Well, according to the Tweet out of Toledo, Sweeney is headed to Ga. Tech as a grad eligible.

Morton - TBD. All I know is what KPJ posted.

What is sad is that we had 4 WBB who averaged double digits last season.

Baldwin exhausted her eligiblity. Sweeney and Morton were the two high scorers last season.

Webb remains.

Where is Super when we need him...

(06-30-2016 10:15 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(06-30-2016 10:07 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear steve,
There are not too many coaches that want to make Eastern heir final stop in coaching. If they have success here, then they look at opportunities that may come along. Most coaches want to move to the bigger programs. Verdi and Braun both did when the opportunity came. Even if Eastern offered significant pay increases for them to stay, as I have already stated, they want to move to the big time. There is nothing one can do about this as an athletic director. You have to try to keep what you have and move on.

That is true.

What I tried to indicate is that the scenario you described happens (Waters, Braun, Verdi, Ron Cooper [FB], etc.) but that some coaching changes are made by the AD.

That was the reference to Wright State who fired (or whatever) a coach with I believe 22 wins last season. EDIT: 22 - 13 (13 - 5).

How does an AD let a HC go who is 13 - 5 in conference? I'd throw a parade instead. Lol.

I'm referring to the 'grass is greener' belief.

We see that with fans who are willing to fire a head coach, manager, etc. in professional or college sports at the drop of a hat...

To sum up Steve's point in far fewer words, unless laws or NCAA rules get broken or if the team is among the worst in the nation, mediocrity is good and the status quo is the way to go. Reading between the lines, let's give Murphy and Creighton plenty of slack because...gulp...things could be worse?

Bob, even though this is an EMU forum we all remember the 'one and done' chants in Broncoland as their FB team struggled badly P.J.'s first year. He was about as popular with Bronco fans as gastroenteritis.

And, of course, I mentioned the smh (shaking my head) case at Wright State where the AD wasn't satisfied with a 13 - 5 conference record.

Murphy has his share of critics here and elsewhere.

CC is still on his 'coaching honeymoon' at EMU but if the team's record doesn't improve significantly this year he may start to feel the heat from fans.

As far as CC and Murphy are concerned, all of the MBB players are Murphy recruits. Most of the FB players are CC recruits.

We have many athletes who came to EMU to play for one of those coaches.

It does take time to turn programs around, Murphy inherited a "clean" mess from Ramsey (compared to what Ramsey inherited ie scholarship restrictions etc). While I'm critical of Murphy on some fronts I have and will say he has (like the Wright St coach) an overall winning record. Hopefully we see the "payoff" of the rebuilding years in men's hoops this year and next, I'm hoping that type of "payoff" will result in us getting some decent high level local high school talent.

Most of English's recruits left on the team are seniors. I would agree CC has to so progress this year and next. I've been pleased how the overall program has been "managed" since his arrival but in the end its wins and losses.

So Castro is basically in a rebuilding mode now after accepting the job. Its sad to see.

(06-30-2016 12:50 PM)emu steve Wrote:  Bob, even though this is an EMU forum we all remember the 'one and done' chants in Broncoland as their FB team struggled badly P.J.'s first year. He was about as popular with Bronco fans as gastroenteritis.

And, of course, I mentioned the smh (shaking my head) case at Wright State where the AD wasn't satisfied with a 13 - 5 conference record.

Murphy has his share of critics here and elsewhere.

CC is still on his 'coaching honeymoon' at EMU but if the team's record doesn't improve significantly this year he may start to feel the heat from fans.

As far as CC and Murphy are concerned, all of the MBB players are Murphy recruits. Most of the FB players are CC recruits.

We have many athletes who came to EMU to play for one of those coaches.

NIU had a similar situation in the 80s when we had Kenny Battle. They fired the coach who by all accounts was doing a pretty decent job, and Battle was someone he could have built a team around. But he transferred when the coach got fired.