What is regional FBS? Minnesota? It would be different if UND was in GA or FL or TX. Makes little sense for Big Sky country schools.

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(06-26-2016 04:46 PM)panama Wrote:  What is regional FBS? Minnesota? It would be different if UND was in GA or FL or TX. Makes little sense for Big Sky country schools.

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Minnesota, Iowa St, Nebraska, Wisconsin and even Wyoming who we beat last year.

The Gophers and UND have a very intense rivalry in hockey, probably Minnesota's most intense one even counting Big Ten schools.

To be FBS and to have a stadium that could host the Gophers would be the biggest fb event ever in the state.

Nebraska isn't going you North Dakota.

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(06-26-2016 04:53 PM)panama Wrote:  Nebraska isn't going you North Dakota.

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Neither would Wisconsin. Whichever schools that schedule h&h with MAC schools, would do it.

Unless they are goal of dramatically increasing enrollment it's not worth $100M to $500M. They are already a state flagship.

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(06-26-2016 04:26 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 02:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 09:44 AM)MJG Wrote:  Hard to argue FCS isn't great for NDSU.
They have either hosted gameday or sport center the last couple of years.
They pack their stadium anyway and have most of their games on ESPN3.

They might gain some exposure if they joined the MWC or especially the AAC.
Otherwise the risk isn't worth the reward why invest?
Even if the MWC invited them they would need to keep winning to gain anything.

Until NDSU,Montana or JMU fans stop packing their stadium for FCS there is little incentive to move up.

I think MWC could be the goal. If you start losing Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Illinois State and Missouri State to the FBS, MVFC would be watered down, and not be the great conference anymore. Joining MWC with Wichita State might be the goal. That would get all their sports in one conference. We have heard school Presidents before saying they are happy where they are at like Northern Kentucky and Omaha, and than less than a year, they moved up. It is a code word meaning they are waiting for a better offer to come their way.

Wichita State is getting an FBS offer from somewhere, and the most logical answer is the WAC. NMSU has somehow snagged home and home non conference basketball games with them. Sam Houston St, Lamar, and Missouri St also want FBS, but Missouri St and Wichita St want to keep basketball in the MVC until they get better offers from the AAC or CUSA. The WAC is the only place they can go as football affiliates. Both NMSU and Wichita St need a Texas presence for their FBS teams.

UND, the Montanas, Idaho, and EWU would make up a northern division of the WAC. UMKC and UTRGV can stay in, but all other WAC schools would go to the Big Sky along with UTRGV's FCS team.

Correction, NMSU did not receive a H/H schedule with Wichita. They did get two trips to Wichita in back to back years and a nice paycheck for each trip. Even though the 2nd trip they got less because they had to postpone the game and were docked for it. But I do believe we have a good relationship there as their current AD is the former SIU AD.

(06-26-2016 05:02 PM)panama Wrote:  Unless they are goal of dramatically increasing enrollment it's not worth $100M to $500M. They are already a state flagship.

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If alumni want to gift to UND facilities, how do you say no? UND has a much higher athletic budget then shown, because a charitable foundation owns and runs the hockey arena and sell all tickets, including bball and football. UND athletics only gets 1/3 rd of ticket sales directly.

FBS would put us more on the map of Twin Cities media, which is where many student come from anyway.

Idaho had a stipulation in their Big Sky agreement that they could get out of the arrangement for free if the Montanas and UND were gone. Obviously, Idaho had concerns that those three could leave earlier for FBS pastures.

(06-26-2016 04:26 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Wichita State is getting an FBS offer from somewhere, and the most logical answer is the WAC. NMSU has somehow snagged home and home non conference basketball games with them. Sam Houston St, Lamar, and Missouri St also want FBS, but Missouri St and Wichita St want to keep basketball in the MVC until they get better offers from the AAC or CUSA. The WAC is the only place they can go as football affiliates. Both NMSU and Wichita St need a Texas presence for their FBS teams.

UND, the Montanas, Idaho, and EWU would make up a northern division of the WAC. UMKC and UTRGV can stay in, but all other WAC schools would go to the Big Sky along with UTRGV's FCS team.

Among the other problems with this post:

1. Football-only memberships do nothing to get an FBS WAC off the ground. You need full members playing FBS football. It's one of the reasons the Sun Belt kicked us out -- we don't really do much for them in a raid situation. So unless Wichita St. and Mo. St. want to park all their sports in the WAC they don't help.

2. Again, I would be very surprised if EWU is considering FBS football anytime soon. They don't have the money and they don't really have access to money. They're trying to upgrade their facilities from Bad FCS to middle-of-the-road FCS, and good for them, but so far they haven't even been able to do that after years of trying.

(06-26-2016 01:49 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Tried to tell the tin foil hat crowd, those schools don't want FBS (this guy is still calling it BCS). Thier hope is not to ramp up investment in thier programs and join the G5 in FBS--rather thier hope is the G5 falls down to join them in FCS. Always has been.

yep. ndsu and montana. are hoping for more idaho programs to fall down to their fcs level. they have zero interest in fbs. they want failure above them

given the collapse of the cusa tv deal there is very little tv money for a new western fbs league and no way to offset all the additional costs of fbs with no playoff sharing revenue.

the whole idea of a fbs WAC is DOA

(06-26-2016 10:08 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 04:26 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Wichita State is getting an FBS offer from somewhere, and the most logical answer is the WAC. NMSU has somehow snagged home and home non conference basketball games with them. Sam Houston St, Lamar, and Missouri St also want FBS, but Missouri St and Wichita St want to keep basketball in the MVC until they get better offers from the AAC or CUSA. The WAC is the only place they can go as football affiliates. Both NMSU and Wichita St need a Texas presence for their FBS teams.

UND, the Montanas, Idaho, and EWU would make up a northern division of the WAC. UMKC and UTRGV can stay in, but all other WAC schools would go to the Big Sky along with UTRGV's FCS team.

Among the other problems with this post:

1. Football-only memberships do nothing to get an FBS WAC off the ground. You need full members playing FBS football. It's one of the reasons the Sun Belt kicked us out -- we don't really do much for them in a raid situation. So unless Wichita St. and Mo. St. want to park all their sports in the WAC they don't help.

2. Again, I would be very surprised if EWU is considering FBS football anytime soon. They don't have the money and they don't really have access to money. They're trying to upgrade their facilities from Bad FCS to middle-of-the-road FCS, and good for them, but so far they haven't even been able to do that after years of trying.

As long as the WAC has eight full time FBS member, it can work. Ten would be better, but Wichita St and Missouri St are not going to ditch their MVC Olympic sports membership for full WAC membership. Where else is Wichita going to get a bid?

EWU can play in Joe Albi Stadium in Spokane if it can't raise funds for an expansion or new stadium.

(06-26-2016 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EWU can play in Joe Albi Stadium in Spokane if it can't raise funds for an expansion or new stadium.

Ever been to Joe Albi Stadium? It's a dump. It's pushing 70 years old and other than replacing the turf (which is now 10 years old and needs to be replaced again) nobody has put any real money into it since it was built. EWU could maybe get away with playing there temporarily but they'd still need a new stadium quickly and that's not the only cost of FBS football.

(06-26-2016 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  As long as the WAC has eight full time FBS member, it can work. Ten would be better, but Wichita St and Missouri St are not going to ditch their MVC Olympic sports membership for full WAC membership. Where else is Wichita going to get a bid?

If they're not going to be full members, the fate of Wichita St.'s football seems like a "who really cares?" problem until you have 8 full members playing FBS football. So far I count 2, and one of the best prospects just publicly eliminated itself from contention.

(06-26-2016 10:27 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EWU can play in Joe Albi Stadium in Spokane if it can't raise funds for an expansion or new stadium.

Ever been to Joe Albi Stadium? It's a dump. It's pushing 70 years old and other than replacing the turf (which is now 10 years old and needs to be replaced again) nobody has put any real money into it since it was built. EWU could maybe get away with playing there temporarily but they'd still need a new stadium quickly and that's not the only cost of FBS football.

So why did Idaho play there?

(06-26-2016 11:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 10:27 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EWU can play in Joe Albi Stadium in Spokane if it can't raise funds for an expansion or new stadium.

Ever been to Joe Albi Stadium? It's a dump. It's pushing 70 years old and other than replacing the turf (which is now 10 years old and needs to be replaced again) nobody has put any real money into it since it was built. EWU could maybe get away with playing there temporarily but they'd still need a new stadium quickly and that's not the only cost of FBS football.

So why did Idaho play there?

I don't understand your point. If you think Idaho is above playing a one-off road game in a crappy stadium you don't know much about Idaho.

(06-26-2016 11:28 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 11:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 10:27 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(06-26-2016 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  EWU can play in Joe Albi Stadium in Spokane if it can't raise funds for an expansion or new stadium.

Ever been to Joe Albi Stadium? It's a dump. It's pushing 70 years old and other than replacing the turf (which is now 10 years old and needs to be replaced again) nobody has put any real money into it since it was built. EWU could maybe get away with playing there temporarily but they'd still need a new stadium quickly and that's not the only cost of FBS football.

So why did Idaho play there?

I don't understand your point. If you think Idaho is above playing a one-off road game in a crappy stadium you don't know much about Idaho.

Wiki says Idaho played a home game there, but that was 45 years ago. EWU played games there untis Roos/Woodward. Seattle even played preseason games there.

Not sure why the concept of return on investment is so difficult.

Sure you can move to FBS by ONLY adding 23 scholarships and ONLY adding a matching number for women's sports if you can find opponents who are similar travel away from you.

If you assume average full ride costs $15,000 then you are out $690,000 right when the starter's pistol fires.

If you add the one additional assistant permitted for FBS and pay that person on the low end of the scale, the school's cost in salary, taxes and benefits is going to run at least $60,000. Now you've spent $750,000 more.

If you are adding 23 female athletes, you are likely needing to add a sport. Low end you spend $400,000 a year for that. Now you are at $1.15 million in additional costs.

This is assuming you do not need to make any changes to accommodate another 46 athletes in the weight rooms and training rooms, do not need to hire an additional trainer, do not need to buy more tape and wrap, do not need to hire an additional academic advisor or any additional tutors.

Further it assumes that the school moving up won't need to increase salaries to hire quality coaches. Matt Viator was paid just under $150,000 at McNeese State after 10 seasons there, he was hired at ULM for $400,000 and will be 9th in the Sun Belt in pay.

The reality is there are a number of schools in FCS who have managed a high degree of success and they sell WINNING.

People can croak about the CFP money all they like, it DOES NOT cover the cost of moving up fully, the benefit in moving up is increasing your capacity to sell tickets and solicit donations. If you are in many states you have to attain some appearance of parity with the larger programs to gain attention from the media. In North Dakota, in Montana, in Delaware, you don't have an in-state FBS to be compared to. If you are several hours from the nearest FBS school, chances are not many people are driving past your stadium to get to the FBS stadium.

Montana already draws a percentage of population that would be considered very successful for an FBS school, even in the P5. There isn't a lot of growth room there to draw additional fans.

Thus very low probability of a good return on investment.

I got the impression the sentiment eventually annoyed Craig Bohl enough to leave for a FBS gig. People, maybe even Bohl himself, wanted to push NDSU to a higher level. It was met and squashed by leadership.

I didn't get the impression Bohl really wanted or needed the Wyoming job, but that he did all he could in green and yellow, with the school committing to nothing more than what it had.

(06-27-2016 11:30 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I got the impression the sentiment eventually annoyed Craig Bohl enough to leave for a FBS gig. People, maybe even Bohl himself, wanted to push NDSU to a higher level. It was met and squashed by leadership.

I didn't get the impression Bohl really wanted or needed the Wyoming job, but that he did all he could in green and yellow, with the school committing to nothing more than what it had.

Bohl made $206 k at NDSU plus bonuses. This year Wyoming is paying him $850 k plus more substantial bonuses. It's not hard to see why he left, as even if NDSU went FBS, they pay wouldn't have gone up much.

NDSU's current coach Klieman is arguably better than Bohl anyway.

(06-25-2016 11:27 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  http://www.inforum.com/news/4061674-bres...econd-tier

Bad news for those wishing for a WAC football revival with FCS move-ups.

DavidSt. Make sure you get this! NDSU is not moving to FBS!