(06-23-2016 05:52 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(06-23-2016 03:44 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(06-23-2016 03:24 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(06-23-2016 03:09 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(06-23-2016 02:55 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  $2 MILLION BASE SALARY
INCENTIVES:
$500,000 6 WINS OR MORE
$250,000 BIG 12 TITLE
$100,000 BOWL WIN
$50,000 BIG 12 COACH OF THE YEAR.

Think he's going to have to just $ettle for the $2M Base...

In his first year, maybe... But they gave Baylor the 2nd best game of the Big12 last year, shut out Texas, lost in OT to KSTATE on a bad call where refs were reprimanded, killed Kansas, gave Iowa a game for 3.5 quarters, lost in OT to Toledo, and beat up on UNI. They will win 4-7 games this season. TCU, Oklahoma, OSU, and Baylor are there only non winnable games. Texas Tech, WVU? Those teams arent world beaters. ISU was so stuck with that coach. I see a good year for Campbell.

Wins over:
Northern Iowa
San Jose State
Kansas State
Kansas
Texas Tech
West Virginia
That would do it.

Could care less if he ever wins another game.

You might be able to care less, but I couldn't care less if he wins another game....

Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

Some people are just bitter because a coach decided to go elsewhere. You would think some of the people here would be more mature about it than they're showing.

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

I think I could make a pretty good life making $ 300,000 to $ 900,000 per year........

(06-24-2016 02:53 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

I think I could make a pretty good life making $ 300,000 to $ 900,000 per year........

Absolutely. He could have worked to 700k for a couple more years until the MAC cant schedule any more P5 opponents. (We have 1 on future schedules). He risks having a couple 6 win seasons where he isnt fresh and then becomes a coordinator at a big school for a paycut in 5 years time. OR take 2 mil, with great incentives for at least 3 seasons to save up for his young kids college funds etc. With the opportunity to move up even further from there!

He isnt at Rutgers... He's at ISU, in a league where the bottom is beatable NOW. They have been better than Texas for 2 years NOW. If he wins 8 games for a couple years, I see him at Oregon, or Arizona with his fast paced offense making a lot of moneys. Saban left Toledo. Pinkel left Toledo. Beckman didnt bring the right pieces with him. How many fans were mad at Pinkel for hitting his 10 win season and bouncing? TWas a pretty good choice! Mizzou wasn't winning then either...

(06-24-2016 03:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 02:53 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

I think I could make a pretty good life making $ 300,000 to $ 900,000 per year........

Absolutely. He could have worked to 700k for a couple more years until the MAC cant schedule any more P5 opponents. (We have 1 on future schedules). He risks having a couple 6 win seasons where he isnt fresh and then becomes a coordinator at a big school for a paycut in 5 years time. OR take 2 mil, with great incentives for at least 3 seasons to save up for his young kids college funds etc. With the opportunity to move up even further from there!

He isnt at Rutgers... He's at ISU, in a league where the bottom is beatable NOW. They have been better than Texas for 2 years NOW. If he wins 8 games for a couple years, I see him at Oregon, or Arizona with his fast paced offense making a lot of moneys. Saban left Toledo. Pinkel left Toledo. Beckman didnt bring the right pieces with him. How many fans were mad at Pinkel for hitting his 10 win season and bouncing? TWas a pretty good choice! Mizzou wasn't winning then either...

MC was counter offered $ 900,000 to stay by Toledo. So he more than reached that $ 700K.

(06-24-2016 02:51 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

Some people are just bitter because a coach decided to go elsewhere. You would think some of the people here would be more mature about it than they're showing.

I totally disagree with your assessment. People are not upset BECAUSE he left but by the WAY he left-----there a subtle difference there that evidently is eluding you.

For example compare Campbell's departure with that of Dino Babers. Sure Babers left BGSU but not before he made a point of seeing that they won yet another MAC championship---a decision that very likely cost him the UCF job although he certainly landed on his feet at Syracuse.

I am sure that Campbell, like the rest of us, never figured that Ohio would upset NIU, but when they did, the WMU game suddenly became a very important game at that point with possible implications going beyond the MAC to a potential New Year's Day Bowl Game. Even with all that on the line, Campbell was either not nimble enough to adapt to the new situation or was too self-absorbed in his next job to take care of his current job and that is why most UT fans are not completely happy with him.

(06-24-2016 02:51 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

Some people are just bitter because a coach decided to go elsewhere. You would think some of the people here would be more mature about it than they're showing.

Some people are just slow to understand that to many, it's not the leaving, it's the how you say goodbye but from posting histories, I presume they just don't understand manners so figure how are they to understand the "bitterness" when they can't see it in themselves?


Those that do not care for how he left are the last to want him here. Mature people understand this.

Matt Campbell, he's the competition now. I've no reason to wish him well because while here he didn't do anything to earn MY long term good wishes. He came, he helmed the position for most of the time he was here, he left. The response you're so bitter about is fairly normal behavior. Mature people understand this.

Mature people recognize this as normal behavior because you know, they've a long life of experiencing human behavior, people coming, people going, people born, people dying, raising families, paying bills, life struggles....They're mature. A coach leaving? That's nothing to them but, they expect good manners.

The coach (they, I feel) didn't show good manners and he didn't work til the end. Someone like you, with your manner of communicating certainly isn't going to convince anyone otherwise so you'll rant when they don't genuflect to the competition.

If you continue to mature, you'll get to that understanding, hopefully sooner better than later.

For real? Is this even a question? Almost as bad as Lebron and 'the decision,' Matty Cash Campbell left in a way so that it cost our program an outright MAC West crown and a trip to the MAC Championship game. That WMU loss was one of the most God awful losses I've witnessed in my lifetime (given all the circumstances). MC didn't give a crap about that game, imo...and how could you not resent him for that as a fan that hasn't witnessed a single MAC title in over 10 years.

(06-24-2016 04:21 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 02:51 PM)MidnightBlueGold Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 01:57 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Why are fans bitter? We knew he would leave. No HC's stay for their bowl game nowadays? At least some of his staff was loyal to their players. Campbell told guys like Coach Rasheed to stay with the Rockets for the game... We play in the MAC... Unless you're a geiser like Solich after a big job like Nebraska, you don't make a lving in the MAC.

Some people are just bitter because a coach decided to go elsewhere. You would think some of the people here would be more mature about it than they're showing.

Some people are just slow to understand that to many, it's not the leaving, it's the how you say goodbye but from posting histories, I presume they just don't understand manners so figure how are they to understand the "bitterness" when they can't see it in themselves?


Those that do not care for how he left are the last to want him here. Mature people understand this.

Matt Campbell, he's the competition now. I've no reason to wish him well because while here he didn't do anything to earn MY long term good wishes. He came, he helmed the position for most of the time he was here, he left. The response you're so bitter about is fairly normal behavior. Mature people understand this.

Mature people recognize this as normal behavior because you know, they've a long life of experiencing human behavior, people coming, people going, people born, people dying, raising families, paying bills, life struggles....They're mature. A coach leaving? That's nothing to them but, they expect good manners.

The coach (they, I feel) didn't show good manners and he didn't work til the end. Someone like you, with your manner of communicating certainly isn't going to convince anyone otherwise so you'll rant when they don't genuflect to the competition.

If you continue to mature, you'll get to that understanding, hopefully sooner better than later.

Agreed about the how not the why. I brought up the coach leaving as a reason for our team losing. I really think they mailed it in. I don't care in the least that they left at this point. I do care about the manner in which they finished the season. For coaches who preach all manner of values including finishing strong HOW they left was unconscionable IMO.

(06-23-2016 02:31 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  #1 The signing classes are no guarantee who makes it to campus or stays with the program.
#2 No consistencies on how the classes rank. Some include JUCO's,some not. There are biases based on class size(hard to compare a class of 15 versus 28), whether or not a service has viewed film of the recruit, specific
camps attended, whether or not your school maintains an active site with that service.
#3 A number of good players have not been part of service ranked UT signing classes,i.e.:

Jhonny Williams, Earl Moore, Jeremi Powell, Dionte Johnson, Michael Roberts, Ruben Carter, Phillip Ely, Sami Kassem, etc.

Don't worry about the recruiting rankings. The results on the field are what matters.

Amen

How do you think he left? I was on the student staff? Nothing but class and respect for the guy. He didnt cash his check to ISU before WMU? We lost because we were out played and some of our guys werent ready for the spotlight... Including one muffed punt and a bonehead targetting penalty.

(06-24-2016 06:16 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  How do you think he left? I was on the student staff? Nothing but class and respect for the guy. He didnt cash his check to ISU before WMU? We lost because we were out played and some of our guys werent ready for the spotlight... Including one muffed punt and a bonehead targetting penalty.

As my old ball coach said:
The players win the game,
it's the coach's fault for not having the players prepared in a loss.

(06-24-2016 06:39 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 06:16 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  How do you think he left? I was on the student staff? Nothing but class and respect for the guy. He didnt cash his check to ISU before WMU? We lost because we were out played and some of our guys werent ready for the spotlight... Including one muffed punt and a bonehead targetting penalty.

As my old ball coach said:
The players win the game,
it's the coach's fault for not having the players prepared in a loss.

I was watching the game in an Irish bar in SD and was screaming NO as the punt rolled towards that player . . . I am sure there were lots of folks in the GB screaming too

(06-24-2016 06:39 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 06:16 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  How do you think he left? I was on the student staff? Nothing but class and respect for the guy. He didnt cash his check to ISU before WMU? We lost because we were out played and some of our guys werent ready for the spotlight... Including one muffed punt and a bonehead targetting penalty.

As my old ball coach said:
The players win the game,
it's the coach's fault for not having the players prepared in a loss.

Because the coaches field punts and knock over defenseless players 20 yards off the ball. Did our coaches teach our players that? No. They are college athletes that have lapses in judgement.

Blaming a loss on our coach packing it in before we played... Is evidenceLess. We lost. We saw his emotion, and the players emotion... No one was happy. The next day, or maybe even that evening talks arise to him about taking a job. That's not his fault. He's doing what's best for him and his family.

And MC did leave the RIGHT way, by saying goodbye, taking his players criticism in the players lounge, and telling some of his assistants to stay. The worst wrong that happened at the end of November was by certain position coaches not saying goodbye, not MC.

Are we going to rehash timelines? Easy to go back to the old threads when it was fresh. Or look at ISU articles. Then is re-opens pissing contests. All has nothing to do with nothing. You had a positive experience with him. No one is bashing you for it. But you're not really in position to tell others how they felt treated or that it is "evidencetless." They have their evidence. It is reasonable to them.


There's no love fest for the previous coach Beckman. He left, didn't look back. You're not complaining? Campbell, same thing. Amstutz stuck around, so he's going to have some local loyalty. Campbell was only here for a short time and when he left, he LEFT. Didn't do anything particularly important. Didn't leave a legacy of any sort. That's not the sort of thing that generates long lasting fan loyalties, you can understand that, right? What players saw, student assistants... not important. They're not the ones posting opinions. I don't have a positive impression of the guy, that shouldn't upset you in the least.

Toledo was a stop-over for him. Maybe he'll come back to Toledo, do some charity things, demonstrate it was more than just a stop-over, say those "fan" goodbyes, whatever, if it's important to him. He's a good chance to get in some golfing with his buddy Urban. Maybe he'll take it. But really, I don't think you need be upset the opinions of those that have moved on about the guy.

(06-24-2016 09:27 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 06:39 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 06:16 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  How do you think he left? I was on the student staff? Nothing but class and respect for the guy. He didnt cash his check to ISU before WMU? We lost because we were out played and some of our guys werent ready for the spotlight... Including one muffed punt and a bonehead targetting penalty.

As my old ball coach said:
The players win the game,
it's the coach's fault for not having the players prepared in a loss.

Because the coaches field punts and knock over defenseless players 20 yards off the ball. Did our coaches teach our players that? No. They are college athletes that have lapses in judgement.

Blaming a loss on our coach packing it in before we played... Is evidenceLess. We lost. We saw his emotion, and the players emotion... No one was happy. The next day, or maybe even that evening talks arise to him about taking a job. That's not his fault. He's doing what's best for him and his family. And did leave the RIGHT way, by saying goodbye, taking his players criticism, and telling some of his assistants to stay. The worst wrong that happened at the end of November was by certain position coaches not saying goodbye, not MC.

Perhaps you were a little too close to the situation to be totally objective about it. From the stands it was pretty obvious during the game that the team was not prepared to play that game that day and yet this was the LAST game of the season, not the FIRST----and there a lot more riding on it than usual. I said at the time I just could not understand it but there was sometime really wrong .....and it didn't take very long at all for the problem to reveal itself.

PS: in the final analysis, the coach is ALWAYS ultimately responsible for his teams wins and losses whether it is his hires of assistants, his knowledge of the game, his ability to recruit and hire those who can, his ability to have right player on the field, his ability to develop talent and hire those who can and last but not least get his team mentally and emotionally prepared and peaking at game time. Why do you think Nick Saban is making a lot more money these days than Tim Beckman.

(06-24-2016 10:00 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Why do you think Nick Saban is making a lot more money these days than Tim Beckman.

Didn't get caught.

(06-24-2016 10:04 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(06-24-2016 10:00 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Why do you think Nick Saban is making a lot more money these days than Tim Beckman.

Didn't get caught.

Possibly so (however, without an outstanding W/L record getting caught--or not getting caught does not even come into play)

The coach cant make you catch punts. He can have you practice all season long, but when its windy and that ball skips off the rainy turf and that players thinks for one second he can field it, then muffs it... It's not on coaching. You cant throw a punch and blame it on the coach. You cant miss a free throw and blame it on the coach. You cant swing at ball 4 and blame it on the coach.

He didnt mail anything in. He had more to gain winning the MAC WEST and beating BG than giving a half ass effort to start his off season early. I saw our effort in practice, I saw our eyes on the goal, and no coach had anything other than a W, and whooping the most hated coach in the conferences butt on their mind. We were out played and made mistakes. Doesnt mean we didnt give it our all. That day, WMU was better. NIU probably gave them everything they had on us so they could back into Detroit.