The Department of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas has released.

Quote:....The study’s most important news is that voucher students show “statistically significant” improvement in math and reading test scores.....

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

...authors compared students who had vouchers to students who applied for vouchers but didn’t get them.... By the usual definition, both sets of kids had motivated parents. The kids with vouchers still did better....

.... Publicly funded voucher programs produced better results than privately funded scholarships.....

Link

Link to PDF page

How can this be?

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents

The parents were just as motivated when their kids went to crappy public/union controlled schools. Thats not a metric that changed. What changed was where the kids went to school.

(05-27-2016 07:44 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents

The parents were just as motivated when their kids went to crappy public/union controlled schools. Thats not a metric that changed. What changed was where the kids went to school.

The most important thing IS parents that care.......2nd most important are the students attending a given school and the attitudes they walk into the building with.

Truthfully - the teachers are probably 3rd or 4th down the line........think about it, all teachers come out of the same colleges and some go to high achieving suburban schools and others to poor performing urban or rural schools - they were all prepared for teaching in the same manner.

Where is Fitbud at for this thread?

I tried to read the PDF, lot of jargon and hard for a layman like me to interpret. What I did glean was the program might've led to fewer at-risk kids getting in trouble if they stay in a private school until they graduate. That's a good thing for those kids, no doubt.

A couple copy and pastes from the PDF:

"We conclude that merely being exposed to private schooling for a
short time through a voucher program may not have a significant impact on criminal activity,
though persistently attending a private school through a voucher program can decrease
subsequent criminal activity, especially for males."

"Our model estimates indicate that experiencing the MPCP
throughout high school reduces the likelihood of a student committing a misdemeanor as a young
adult by 5 to 7 percentage points, of committing a felony by 3 percentage points, and of being
accused of any crime by 5 to 12 percentage points."

I'm not surprised. I do wonder if that would continue if the number of students with vouchers increased significantly.

Quote:The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

(05-27-2016 07:36 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The Department of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas has released.

Quote:....The study’s most important news is that voucher students show “statistically significant” improvement in math and reading test scores.....

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

...authors compared students who had vouchers to students who applied for vouchers but didn’t get them.... By the usual definition, both sets of kids had motivated parents. The kids with vouchers still did better....

.... Publicly funded voucher programs produced better results than privately funded scholarships.....

Link

Link to PDF page

If you are motivated to get a voucher, it doesn't matter if you get in or not, you are already a motivated parent.

(05-27-2016 10:10 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 07:36 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The Department of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas has released.

Quote:....The study’s most important news is that voucher students show “statistically significant” improvement in math and reading test scores.....

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

...authors compared students who had vouchers to students who applied for vouchers but didn’t get them.... By the usual definition, both sets of kids had motivated parents. The kids with vouchers still did better....

.... Publicly funded voucher programs produced better results than privately funded scholarships.....

Link

Link to PDF page

If you are motivated to get a voucher, it doesn't matter if you get in or not, you are already a motivated parent.

Do you not read the entire post? Let me repeat

The kids with vouchers still did better....

(05-27-2016 10:09 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

The response would be, that public schools would have a lower percentage of motivated parents, not that there aren't any motivated parents. Of course that's a hypothesis, but a plausible one.

By the way, I personally back up my opinions with my money. For over 20 years I've been contributing to the Buffalo Inner-city Scholarship Opportunity Network (BISON Fund) that provides private "vouchers."

(05-27-2016 10:17 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:09 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

The response would be, that public schools would have a lower percentage of motivated parents, not that there aren't any motivated parents. Of course that's a hypothesis, but a plausible one.

I don't think there's a lower percentage of motivated parents, just a higher percentage of unmotivated ones.

This leads me to wonder: what is the factor that leads private schools to be better for students (really depends on the pvt school vs. public school relations in a particular county)?

Is it class size? Is it association? Is it more localized control? Is it the fact that they can have any student out of their hair if they wanted?

(05-27-2016 07:36 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The Department of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas has released.

Quote:....The study’s most important news is that voucher students show “statistically significant” improvement in math and reading test scores.....

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

...authors compared students who had vouchers to students who applied for vouchers but didn’t get them.... By the usual definition, both sets of kids had motivated parents. The kids with vouchers still did better....

.... Publicly funded voucher programs produced better results than privately funded scholarships.....

Link

Link to PDF page

I stopped after this....fk me.....

Quote:In this report we examine crime rates for young adults who experienced Milwaukee's citywide
voucher program as high school students and a comparable group of their peers who had been
public school students. Using unique data collected as part of a longitudinal evaluation of the
program, we consider criminal activity by youth initially exposed to voucher schools and those
in public schools at the same time.

lmao at more stupid shite....

(05-30-2016 02:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:17 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:09 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

The response would be, that public schools would have a lower percentage of motivated parents, not that there aren't any motivated parents. Of course that's a hypothesis, but a plausible one.

[b]I don't think there's a lower percentage of motivated parents, just a higher percentage of unmotivated ones.[/b]

This leads me to wonder: what is the factor that leads private schools to be better for students (really depends on the pvt school vs. public school relations in a particular county)?

Is it class size? Is it association? Is it more localized control? Is it the fact that they can have any student out of their hair if they wanted?

That's the same thing. The private schools at the moment are essentially elitist. They are no better than public schools except that they are able to exclude the dregs of society. If public schools could do the same the results would be similar.

(05-30-2016 08:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 02:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:17 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:09 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

Quote:The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

The response would be, that public schools would have a lower percentage of motivated parents, not that there aren't any motivated parents. Of course that's a hypothesis, but a plausible one.

[b]I don't think there's a lower percentage of motivated parents, just a higher percentage of unmotivated ones.[/b]

This leads me to wonder: what is the factor that leads private schools to be better for students (really depends on the pvt school vs. public school relations in a particular county)?

Is it class size? Is it association? Is it more localized control? Is it the fact that they can have any student out of their hair if they wanted?

That's the same thing. The private schools at the moment are essentially elitist. They are no better than public schools except that they are able to exclude the dregs of society. If public schools could do the same the results would be similar.

I agree with you

(05-30-2016 08:16 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 08:09 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-30-2016 02:33 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:17 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 10:09 AM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  So is the TU saying that motivated parents don't exist in the public school system? I call bs.. the parents that were motivated with the voucher users, were motivated when they were in public schools I'll bet..

Nice fail on the blame shift, Teacher's Union..

The response would be, that public schools would have a lower percentage of motivated parents, not that there aren't any motivated parents. Of course that's a hypothesis, but a plausible one.

[b]I don't think there's a lower percentage of motivated parents, just a higher percentage of unmotivated ones.[/b]

This leads me to wonder: what is the factor that leads private schools to be better for students (really depends on the pvt school vs. public school relations in a particular county)?

Is it class size? Is it association? Is it more localized control? Is it the fact that they can have any student out of their hair if they wanted?

That's the same thing. The private schools at the moment are essentially elitist. They are no better than public schools except that they are able to exclude the dregs of society. If public schools could do the same the results would be similar.

I agree with you

So there's 2 of us.

(05-27-2016 10:10 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 07:36 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  The Department of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas has released.

Quote:....The study’s most important news is that voucher students show “statistically significant” improvement in math and reading test scores.....

The teachers unions and their allies typically reply that voucher kids do better because they have more motivated parents....

...authors compared students who had vouchers to students who applied for vouchers but didn’t get them.... By the usual definition, both sets of kids had motivated parents. The kids with vouchers still did better....

.... Publicly funded voucher programs produced better results than privately funded scholarships.....

Link

Link to PDF page

If you are motivated to get a voucher, it doesn't matter if you get in or not, you are already a motivated parent.

But if you get it your kid will share a classroom with other children who have motivated parents...

(05-27-2016 10:18 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  By the way, I personally back up my opinions with my money. For over 20 years I've been contributing to the Buffalo Inner-city Scholarship Opportunity Network (BISON Fund) that provides private "vouchers."

Good on ya mate.

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(05-30-2016 08:16 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  That's the same thing. The private schools at the moment are essentially elitist. They are no better than public schools except that they are able to exclude the dregs of society. If public schools could do the same the results would be similar.

But they cant, thus the point. In some districts, no problem. In others you couldnt pay me to send my kid to public.




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