(05-27-2016 02:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  @bobcat

Who cares? Trump supporters clearly don't, and the undecided don't really either.

These are the sorts of things that ring in an echo chamber, but carry no significance anywhere else. I suspect you'd find that he also has given millions to Democrats over the years and I suspect far less to Republicans.

Absolutely. He's a businessman that operates in a democratic stronghold. I don't have a problem with it since that's the way the game has to be played.

(05-27-2016 02:09 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  @bobcat

Who cares? Trump supporters clearly don't, and the undecided don't really either.

These are the sorts of things that ring in an echo chamber, but carry no significance anywhere else. I suspect you'd find that he also has given millions to Democrats over the years and I suspect far less to Republicans.

Absolutely. He's a businessman that operates in a democratic stronghold. I don't have a problem with it since that's the way the game has to be played.

But I think you're glossing over another key thing Trump claims he stands for. On one hand he decries politicians who take money as that requires them to be beholden to them, then on the other had that's how you see him operating. Not to mention his lie about self-funding and his now position that he will take the RNC and other people's money like Adelson.

This is not a man of integrity...something you all say you hate Hillary for.

(05-27-2016 02:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is not a man of integrity...something you all say you hate Hillary for.

I don't think a person of integrity can be elected president any more. Certainly hasn't happened in a while.

(05-27-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is not a man of integrity...something you all say you hate Hillary for.

I don't think a person of integrity can be elected president any more. Certainly hasn't happened in a while.

We've had a few in recent memory...Carter and GHWB...and even though you won't admit it, Obama. I think W had some too, but he was too easily corrupted by the evil overlord Cheney.

(05-27-2016 02:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  We've had a few in recent memory...Carter and GHWB...and even though you won't admit it, Obama. I think W had some too, but he was too easily corrupted by the evil overlord Cheney.

Obama, NFW. Not even remotely close. I honestly do not believe that he has a shred of integrity in his entire body. I have far more trust in Nixon of Clinton as men of integrity than I do Obama. And I'm absolutely serious with that comment.

Agree that GWB was corrupted by Cheney. I still find that an absolutely incredible VP choice. But maybe it wasn't incredible, maybe that was the fix all along.

Will agree on Carter and GHWB. Maybe integrity means if you get elected you go after one term.

Disagree with Carter as much as I disagree with Obama, but as awful as Carter was, worst till Obama came along, he had, albeit misguided, integrity.

Obama plainly and simply has zero.

(05-27-2016 02:08 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Fair enough. I'm just saying the guy doesn't seem to have any solid convictions he actually believes in. I think it is important that the president has an open mind to different ideas. I don't think it's wrong to change your mind on issues... I think that's human. But when he changes his mind more than I change my underwear, it's hard to see what kind of person we're gonna have in the White House.

That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is that he isn't so 'entrenched' in any specific ideology that it would stop him from making the 'right' decision to accomplish the greater goal? I'm not saying that is the case.... I'm merely pointing out that the ONE thing I feel I can count on Trump to do is to not let political ideology get in his way. Yes, he's running as Republican, like Bernie is running as a Democrat.. but NEITHER of them toe the party line.

It seems precisely like what most undecided voters want. Someone who isn't so tied to their own opinions (or party) that they can't make exceptions.

I mean seriously... does anyone in their right mind see Trump bowing to the far right and banning abortions? And what would the Miss USA pageant be without gay men?

(05-27-2016 02:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  But I think you're glossing over another key thing Trump claims he stands for. On one hand he decries politicians who take money as that requires them to be beholden to them, then on the other had that's how you see him operating. Not to mention his lie about self-funding and his now position that he will take the RNC and other people's money like Adelson.

This is not a man of integrity...something you all say you hate Hillary for.

Sorry, but this is misleading at best.
1) Trump isn't an idealist like Bernie claiming that 'the system is corrupt' and needs to be fixed. He is someone who KNOWS how the wealthy buy political favor (because he did it).
2) Even left leaning sites only claim that his claim is not REALLY true. I don't think anyone really thinks that after both Romney and Obama spent $1byn each, that Donald won't accept other people helping him pay back the debts he will accumulate... His point is (whether one chooses to believe him or not) that he spends money based on what he thinks is best, and I'm sure he hopes to get repaid... but that isn't the same as getting paid to believe something

This is just another of the 'bashes' of Trump that make me more likely to vote for him... certainly over her. If you're equating the two, he wins hands down.

(05-27-2016 02:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  We've had a few in recent memory...Carter and GHWB...

Will agree on Carter and GHWB. Maybe integrity means if you get elected you go after one term.

Sad commentary.

What Democrats pulled on GHWB was despicable... purely political and ALL within their control. Arguably what Reagan did to Carter was as well, but he wasn't in control of Iran.

Big difference between CAUSING someone's downfall and taking advantage of it. Not that either are 'pride' instilling.

(05-27-2016 11:35 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  All that needs to be said, and nearly impossible for a Hillary supporter to look someone in the eye and say they trust her.

The double edged sword of our leaders insisting that we (as a people) 'respect' leaders of other countries who are totalitarians and braggarts and buffoons and racists and even murderers (eschewing American exceptionalism) is that they are now required to respect ours.

THIS is the problem for the Hillary folks... that people like me who REALLY REALLY don't want to vote for Trump (and still probably won't because my vote won't matter) are only being encouraged to do so because we're being pushed to be more and more accepting of people like Ahmadinejad and Castro and Kim, much less those with whom we simply disagree on relatively minor things...

so why should we 'hire' another person who asks us to compromise even more of OUR values so that people like these don't need to compromise THEIRS? Sure it may hurt us a bit with our Allies like the Russians and French who screwed us over in Iraq... but they're acting in THEIR best interests, so why shouldn't we act in ours? I'm not saying I'm there yet... but I AM saying that the more people tell me the international world will be 'bothered' by having to deal with Trump, the less that bothers me. Their PEOPLE might be, but their leaders won't.

There's nothing Trump could do to convince me to vote for him. But Hillary might convince me to vote for Trump. There's nothing either of them could do to convince me to vote for Hillary.

I'm beginning to think with the "kitchen sink" they are throwing at him, they are really looking stupid and clueless. Hillary might yet find a way to lose this election. I think the Dems are just out of touch with reality.

(05-27-2016 02:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:16 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is not a man of integrity...something you all say you hate Hillary for.

I don't think a person of integrity can be elected president any more. Certainly hasn't happened in a while.

We've had a few in recent memory...Carter and GHWB...and even though you won't admit it, Obama. I think W had some too, but he was too easily corrupted by the evil overlord Cheney.

Delusional if you think Obama has integrity. Now he's not a thief, and so far as we know isn't hitting on 19 year old interns, but integrity is not his strong suit. He's a compulsive liar, not in the Clinton's league, but he's pretty strong in that category.

(05-27-2016 02:34 PM)Paul M Wrote:  Disagree with Carter as much as I disagree with Obama, but as awful as Carter was, worst till Obama came along, he had, albeit misguided, integrity.

Obama plainly and simply has zero.

Jimmy is a very good man.

Awful president. IMO worst since before the Civil War. But very good man.

(05-26-2016 05:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-26-2016 05:06 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  Let them throw. Finally we have someone that will throw back harder the Clinton garbage at Pantsuits. Can't wait for it.

Yep...just what our democracy needs...lol...more fighting!

Say what you will about negative campaigning. It's a lot more honest than positive campaigning.

It really is awesome how everyone on this forum has fallen in line behind Trump. Team be for country . LMFAO

(05-28-2016 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  It really is awesome how everyone on this forum has fallen in line behind Trump. Team be for country . LMFAO

I haven't joined up. You're still pushing the Hillary wagon, though, right?

(05-28-2016 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  It really is awesome how everyone on this forum has fallen in line behind Trump. Team be for country . LMFAO

If the Dems had a better option I would consider. Only problem is that the "chosen one" is corrupt, incompetent and likely compromised by foreign govt. Way to go Democrats.

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(05-27-2016 02:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Agree that GWB was corrupted by Cheney. I still find that an absolutely incredible VP choice. But maybe it wasn't incredible, maybe that was the fix all along.

I've always thought the same thing too. Dubya was around Cheney for so much of his life that I guess he saw him as a wise mentor who would be great to have around as VP. However, the cynical part of me thinks that Bush was power-hungry all along despite his 2000 campaign rhetoric and relatively aloof persona, and he always intended for Cheney to wield a lot of power in his administration. It certainly wasn't for political purposes, it's not like an old white guy from Wyoming helped him much on the campaign trail, nor was Cheney much of beloved figure in DC.

Cheney actually was tough as nails. After 9/11 He pretty much filled the void and His experience paid off. Now where it gets dicey is when Iraq invasion was going down. 20/20 say that just wasn't a smart move. Not sure if it was Bush pushing the envelope on that or Cheney wanting to complete the Gulf war chapter. Gitmo was and still is a good idea. Obama screwed that pooch by releasing battle hardend terrorists back onto the battlefield . That benefits No One but our Enemy.

(05-27-2016 02:08 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 02:00 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  @bobcat

Who cares? Trump supporters clearly don't, and the undecided don't really either.

These are the sorts of things that ring in an echo chamber, but carry no significance anywhere else. I suspect you'd find that he also has given millions to Democrats over the years and I suspect far less to Republicans.

Fair enough. I'm just saying the guy doesn't seem to have any solid convictions he actually believes in. I think it is important that the president has an open mind to different ideas. I don't think it's wrong to change your mind on issues... I think that's human. But when he changes his mind more than I change my underwear, it's hard to see what kind of person we're gonna have in the White House.

Im sure he has convictions. Question is, what are they?

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(05-28-2016 07:53 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Cheney actually was tough as nails. After 9/11 He pretty much filled the void and His experience paid off. Now where it gets dicey is when Iraq invasion was going down. 20/20 say that just wasn't a smart move. Not sure if it was Bush pushing the envelope on that or Cheney wanting to complete the Gulf war chapter. Gitmo was and still is a good idea. Obama screwed that pooch by releasing battle hardend terrorists back onto the battlefield . That benefits No One but our Enemy.

This is the proposition that has been advanced often. I just don't buy it. Even people on the other side give props for handling 9/11. I just don't. I thought they handled it horribly, on so many fronts. We got into two wars that we didn't intend to win, placed restrictions on our own people that violate our constitution, and weren't tough enough on the bad guys. That's not an A in my book.

(05-28-2016 11:36 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 11:29 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  It really is awesome how everyone on this forum has fallen in line behind Trump. Team be for country . LMFAO

I haven't joined up. You're still pushing the Hillary wagon, though, right?

I haven't either. I dislike both of them.

(05-27-2016 01:03 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(05-27-2016 09:58 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  What does Trump actually believe in?

If I had the time, I could put together a very long list of him supporting both sides of a position. He even admitted that he's malleable.

Malleable? Good. The system was meant for both sides to work together. Each side wins some, each side looses some. Maybe he can help bring that back.

I'm excited about his universal health care plan and deportation squads. You?