I hear this from people who hate Obama. What does this mean? How is our country being stolen? Who is stealing it? Who is us?

I get that people disagree with policies. That happens in a democracy. But that's kind of the point. Sometimes your candidate/party loses. And it kind of sucks. But it doesn't mean your "country is being stolen"...

Honest questions.

Though I have never used the phrase myself, I think it refers to the trend of giving non citizens the same benefits as citizens and/or the transition of America from being known as a melting pot to now where diversification is the goal not assimilation. The same people who use that phrase would probably also define a country with borders, culture, and language. You lose any one of those and you lose your country. Looking at it in that context it is easy to see why they might think that their country is being stolen from them.

RiceBull said it well. I would just point out that people who hate Obama, people who think we are losing our country, and people who think our country is being stolen from us, are three different collections. Certainly some overlap, but also some differentiation.

Also, people who oppose Obama don't necessarily hate him. I don't hate him.

(06-09-2016 08:35 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I would just point out that people who hate Obama, people who think we are losing our country, and people who think our country is being stolen from us, are three different collections. Certainly some overlap, but also some differentiation.

Also, people who oppose Obama don't necessarily hate him. I don't hate him.

Fair points, I don't disagree.

(06-09-2016 02:15 AM)RiceBull Wrote:  Though I have never used the phrase myself, I think it refers to the trend of giving non citizens the same benefits as citizens and/or the transition of America from being known as a melting pot to now where diversification is the goal not assimilation. The same people who use that phrase would probably also define a country with borders, culture, and language. You lose any one of those and you lose your country. Looking at it in that context it is easy to see why they might think that their country is being stolen from them.

Still have to admit it's not "easy" for me to see it that way, but thanks for the explanation.

I have a somewhat different slant, perhaps because I come from a somewhat different place philosophically from many of those who think we are losing our country, and certainly from any of those who "hate" Obama where hate is a code word for racism.

A lot of those who think we are losing our country do so because of things like gay rights or abortion or other social issues that don't fit with where western society has been for centuries. Those things don't bother me, and I certainly don't think we are losing our country because of them.

I come at it from purely a policy perspective. I don't think that what made the USA a uniquely great country was our attitudes toward marijuana or abortion (both of which we were mostly fine with for the first 150 or so years of the republic) or gay rights (most of which we opposed for the record, but except for a few extreme individuals it was always pretty much a wink and a nod situation), but rather our tradition of individuality and our commitment to a generally freer market and entrepreneurial capitalism and smaller government than other nations. I applaud the policy changes toward marijuana and abortion and gay rights. But I think the restrictions placed on our market economy, in the name of "fairness" or whatever, are having the (perhaps unintended, perhaps intended) impact of destroying the economic vitality which motivated most of our progress over the first 250 years or so. And that to my way of thinking is destroying our country and taking it away from us.

I don't hate Obama. I think he is incredibly dishonest and disingenuous, but those things don't make me hate him. They do make me wish he were not president, but at this point I have little expectation that I will like his successor any better. I don't think I would like him if I knew him--he comes across as far too self-absorbed and arrogant and dismissive and narcissistic and egomaniacal for my tastes--but I don't know him, and therefore don't know if I would have the same opinions if we met up close and personal. From a racial standpoint, I think it is great that we have a black president. That's probably about the only thing about him that I actually like. But I do hate virtually every policy position that he has advocated. I like having a minority president, I just wish we had a different one. So what does that make me?

(06-09-2016 02:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I have a somewhat different slant, perhaps because I come from a somewhat different place philosophically from many of those who think we are losing our country, and certainly from any of those who "hate" Obama where hate is a code word for racism.

A lot of those who think we are losing our country do so because of things like gay rights or abortion or other social issues that don't fit with where western society has been for centuries. Those things don't bother me, and I certainly don't think we are losing our country because of them.

I come at it from purely a policy perspective. I don't think that what made the USA a uniquely great country was our attitudes toward marijuana or abortion (both of which we were mostly fine with for the first 200 or so years) or gay rights (most of which we opposed for the record but except for a few extreme individuals it was always pretty much a wink and a nod situation), but rather our tradition of individuality and our commitment to a generally freer market and entrepreneurial capitalism and smaller government than other nations. I applaud the policy changes toward marijuana and abortion and gay rights. But I think the restrictions placed on our market economy in the name of "fairness" or whatever are having the (perhaps unintended, perhaps intended) impact of destroying the economic vitality which motivated most of our progress over the first 250 years or so. And that to my way of thinking is destroying our country and taking it away from us.

I don't hate Obama. I think he is incredibly dishonest and disingenuous, but those things don't make me hate him. I don't think I would like him if I knew him--he comes across as far too self-absorbed and arrogant and dismissive and narcissistic and egomaniacal for my tastes--but I don't know him, and therefore don't know if I would have the same opinions if we met up close and personal. From a racial standpoint, I think it is great that we have a black president. That's probably about the only thing about him that I actually like. But I do hate virtually every policy position that he has advocated. I like having a minority president, I just wish we had a different one. So what does that make me?

Sometimes when reading 69/70/75's comments I feel as if someone has performed a Vulcan Mind Meld on us. This is one of those times.

(06-09-2016 02:41 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I don't hate Obama. I think he is incredibly dishonest and disingenuous, but those things don't make me hate him. They do make me wish he were not president, but at this point I have little expectation that I will like his successor any better. I don't think I would like him if I knew him--he comes across as far too self-absorbed and arrogant and dismissive and narcissistic and egomaniacal for my tastes--but I don't know him, and therefore don't know if I would have the same opinions if we met up close and personal. From a racial standpoint, I think it is great that we have a black president. That's probably about the only thing about him that I actually like. But I do hate virtually every policy position that he has advocated. I like having a minority president, I just wish we had a different one.

To paraphrase the great Mickey Mantle: my views are about the same as Chip's.