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Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
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Copy Cat Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 02:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  And why was it 15K to open the season 10 years ago when you guys were only winning 2-5 games a season?

I wasn't suggesting winning has absolutely nothing to do with it, but it goes way beyond that. With the exception of a few good years in the 90s, the team was comically bad. It helps that it's no longer a joke, but, crucially, the program and the sports marketing department have made huge strides to make gameday a true event. Just 20 years ago, there was literally no tailgate culture. The band was the only draw. Now, a Saturday game is an excuse of alumni to return, and it's an event that goes well beyond the field. Being a perennial loser would make it harder, but with the culture that's been built, even a crappy Bobcat team would easily sell out half of the home games a year (opener, Parents Weekend, Homecoming). It starts with winning, but I know a lot of people who never used to go to games and don't care much about football who now have season tickets and go whenever the weather is nice. That fan didn't exist 20 or even 10 years ago.
04-25-2016 07:35 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
That casual fan started coming because you guys made it a fun social event, but your football-oriented fan base will dwindle if you stop winning. And if you lose those devoted fans and your team starts losing every week by three TDs, the games become much less fun and you'll stop drawing good crowds every Saturday (your band is admittedly your ace in the hole). You think it's impossible because the changes you've made, but take one look at the stands in Oxford and you'll see that it isn't. Our average attendance in 2003 was only a few hundred shy of your record at Peden and that was long before we inflated the numbers; now it's obvious where we are. You may think those alumni who come back to tailgate are really committed, but if OU wins nine games in four years like Miami has, they'll just go to the bars in Athens instead if they want to visit OU.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2016 11:25 AM by Love and Honor.)
04-25-2016 09:27 AM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
I'm astonished that Kent State hasn't appeared yet. We play 2 FCS teams this year, but I still think we'll finish 1-11.

Kent State finished 2015 127th (out of 128 FBS teams) in total offense with 273 ypg. Dead last with 13.1 points per game. Absolute last with 14.1 first downs per game.

And I don't see any reason to hope for improvement this year. We beat Miami, UMass, and Delaware State last year, and I'd expect us to lose at Miami this year. We don't even get to play EMU. We beat Delaware State last year, but they were 1-10 for the year, so that isn't saying much.
04-25-2016 09:46 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 07:35 AM)Copy Cat Wrote:  
(04-25-2016 02:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  And why was it 15K to open the season 10 years ago when you guys were only winning 2-5 games a season?

I wasn't suggesting winning has absolutely nothing to do with it, but it goes way beyond that. With the exception of a few good years in the 90s, the team was comically bad.

You were winning more than EMU was. Now if Ohio does not have a winning season for 20+ years *AND* you have many 0-3 win seasons in that span and draw 15K then great!

Quote:It helps that it's no longer a joke, but, crucially, the program and the sports marketing department have made huge strides to make gameday a true event.

I don't disagree here. My point was that NDSU vs Murray State is not going to move the needle and could even hurt things because NDSU has a good chance of winning that game.

EMU needs to be scheduling two weak FCS teams a year for a couple of seasons. Unless they see six wins coming and then you go one. Two nice weather weekends in September where you win ( combined with some kind of event ) could be a real shot in the arm.

White brought concerts to Buffalo before every game, he brought a better tailgating environment and enhancements that moved us from 15-18K sold per game to 18-22K sold per game despite losing seasons.

So I get what you are saying, and it's what I have said. That promotions matter.

But at some point things are so bad that you just need to win. If English could have sustained 5-6 win seasons for a few years *and* EMU made their gameday better they could start rebuilding a fan base.
04-25-2016 10:43 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 09:46 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I'm astonished that Kent State hasn't appeared yet. We play 2 FCS teams this year, but I still think we'll finish 1-11.

Kent State finished 2015 127th (out of 128 FBS teams) in total offense with 273 ypg. Dead last with 13.1 points per game. Absolute last with 14.1 first downs per game.

And I don't see any reason to hope for improvement this year. We beat Miami, UMass, and Delaware State last year, and I'd expect us to lose at Miami this year. We don't even get to play EMU. We beat Delaware State last year, but they were 1-10 for the year, so that isn't saying much.

I'm wondering when they get to Buffalo. We lost some key players this season and our recruiting class was decimated when B1G programs came calling in the final days before NSD.
04-25-2016 10:45 AM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 09:46 AM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  I'm astonished that Kent State hasn't appeared yet. We play 2 FCS teams this year, but I still think we'll finish 1-11.

Kent State finished 2015 127th (out of 128 FBS teams) in total offense with 273 ypg. Dead last with 13.1 points per game. Absolute last with 14.1 first downs per game.

And I don't see any reason to hope for improvement this year. We beat Miami, UMass, and Delaware State last year, and I'd expect us to lose at Miami this year. We don't even get to play EMU. We beat Delaware State last year, but they were 1-10 for the year, so that isn't saying much.

My guess is that they figure if the offense improves at all Kent could get some wins over some teams. Honestly as bad as it was last year if you look at the games if Kent could just make some field goals or a touchdown they could have gone bowling and had some nice quality wins too. The defense was good enough for that (I think by the end of the year they ended up getting tired).

If the offense does not improve at all and/or the defense takes a step back then Kent will be in real trouble.
04-25-2016 08:34 PM
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Post: #47
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-21-2016 03:30 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  
(04-21-2016 12:20 PM)Sam Minuteman Wrote:  Not sure where the talk of EMU not pulling their weight is coming from? Sounds more like they may be cutting a lot of weight soon.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...50.twitter

I'm surprised Terry Foster speculates that EMU would drop all the way to Division II. The GLIAC? Not the Missouri Valley for football?

(The GLIAC might actually make the most sense if the goal is to save money. But it seems like it would be a bold move. I'm surprised Foster would make that leap.)

I also wonder what is meant, precisely, by the idea that EMU has "lost" $52 million on athletics during the past two years. If it was backfilled with student activity fee revenue, that headline would seem melodramatic.

The AD already has refuted that figure. States she has no idea where that comes from and that the HBO folks never approached her on it.
04-25-2016 09:06 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
#122 SMU-AAC
04-25-2016 10:57 PM
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perimeterpost Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-22-2016 05:47 AM)emu steve Wrote:  
(04-21-2016 12:20 PM)Sam Minuteman Wrote:  
(04-21-2016 12:12 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  All this talk about EMU not pulling their weight, we already cut out the dead weight with UMASS.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Not sure where the talk of EMU not pulling their weight is coming from? Sounds more like they may be cutting a lot of weight soon.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2016/04/20/t...50.twitter

If EMU drops football i guess it could open the door for a return to the MAC as Football only for BC. Although with the Independent schedule being put together so far I'm not sure it would be of much interest.

All kidding aside I really hope EMU doesn't set the precedence for dropping down or cutting football that doesn't help anyone and would really suck for the nearly 4,900 fans.

The possibility of EMU dropping football on a 10 point scale:

Say '6'. Oops, I meant MINUS '6'.

or using political metaphor:

Ted Cruz winning the presidency and nominating Hillary for the Supreme Court.

or scientists proves the Catholic Church, of old, correct: The earth is flat.

Actually EMU wants to improve Rynearson. Not drop football.

I live in the Washington, D.C. area where journalism is very, very good. Then I see the HBO stuff and those folks probably would have flunked out out Ohio's journalism school...

And why is a budget deficit for the entire athletic dept the fault of the football team? Without football there is no TV contract with ESPN. EMU's football team earned $1.83M from the TV contract and CFP payout last year, how much did women's rowing bring in?
04-25-2016 11:32 PM
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Post: #50
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 10:57 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  #122 SMU-AAC
Man, the tension to find out who will fill out the Alluvial Eight. So far the tally is at 2 Independents, 2 AAC, 1 each MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA.
04-25-2016 11:41 PM
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Boca Rocket Offline
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RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
#121 Hawaii-MWC
04-27-2016 01:57 AM
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Copy Cat Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 09:27 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That casual fan started coming because you guys made it a fun social event, but your football-oriented fan base will dwindle if you stop winning. And if you lose those devoted fans and your team starts losing every week by three TDs, the games become much less fun and you'll stop drawing good crowds every Saturday (your band is admittedly your ace in the hole). You think it's impossible because the changes you've made, but take one look at the stands in Oxford and you'll see that it isn't. Our average attendance in 2003 was only a few hundred shy of your record at Peden and that was long before we inflated the numbers; now it's obvious where we are. You may think those alumni who come back to tailgate are really committed, but if OU wins nine games in four years like Miami has, they'll just go to the bars in Athens instead if they want to visit OU.

You're right that winning has something to do with it, and a perennial loser could destroy a lot of the hard work that has been done. I think the wildcard in Oxford is the hockey team. It's diverted resources from Miami's traditional revenue sports, and it's taken fan interest with it. I think a key difference with hockey is that Miami (like all D1 hockey programs) has a legitimate chance to compete for a national championship every season. Miami can play the Bucknuts and be favored. For a casual fan, the possibility of being "number one" with no asterisk is probably pretty appealing, and it's not really realistic for a MAC football or basketball team.
04-27-2016 07:07 AM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
I think it's true to some extent that hockey has drawn some funding and fan interest from football, but it's not the primary cause of our collapse imo. It fell apart because our previous AD let it crumble, with hockey being a small component of it. We were able to maintain a good mid-major basketball program along with our football team at the same time, so it's not like we can only choose one of three and have to write off the other two. A better argument could be made that hockey has helped kill basketball, football less so.
04-27-2016 08:44 AM
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HuskieJohn Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-23-2016 08:49 AM)emu steve Wrote:  3 - 3.5M included (in my calcs): About 1.5M from road game guarantees (FB), 1+M from CFP, and the rest from MAC media rights, which is essentially FB generated monies. They don't pay much for basketball, etc.

You do make good points about how expensive football is especially salaries and medical costs, stadium upkeep, equipment, etc.

I always wondered how much it cost for health insurance for a college football player, one of the most dangerous 'occupations' in America. Does the university supplement what the family may have or do they have a blanket policy for all student athletes?

I remember (I think) when I was college aged, my health expenses were pretty close to zero dollars, most dental and eye (contact lens). My biggest expense was getting stitched up after getting hit with a puck in intramural hockey.

The NIU donor packet gives a peak into that cost.

http://www.huskieathleticfund.com/impact...lence.html

$2081 for SA insurance + $1000 for sports medicine
04-27-2016 01:08 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
Excellent and yes, it is NOT cheap!!!
04-27-2016 01:54 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-25-2016 09:27 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  That casual fan started coming because you guys made it a fun social event, but your football-oriented fan base will dwindle if you stop winning. And if you lose those devoted fans and your team starts losing every week by three TDs, the games become much less fun and you'll stop drawing good crowds every Saturday (your band is admittedly your ace in the hole). You think it's impossible because the changes you've made, but take one look at the stands in Oxford and you'll see that it isn't. Our average attendance in 2003 was only a few hundred shy of your record at Peden and that was long before we inflated the numbers; now it's obvious where we are. You may think those alumni who come back to tailgate are really committed, but if OU wins nine games in four years like Miami has, they'll just go to the bars in Athens instead if they want to visit OU.

The 2011 Potato Bowl year did help build season tickets. Winning has been some of the factor to build numbers as high as they are.

Then the Bobcats started losing. The last 4 years Ohio has been .500 in the MAC. But season ticket sales continued to crest higher to go with higher ticket prices. Many fans want to see Solich go with his second half of the season meltdowns.

I don't think any other MAC school besides Ohio has hotels sold out for the first home football game by April. There are only a few rooms available in Athens for the September 3rd opener on Priceline. Its 200 dollars for a decent hotel in Athens. Its not only Athens where the prices are up but also Logan and Lancaster are charging 200 for Bobcat football weekends.

The closest hotel that you can find online for October 8th game against Bowling Green is a hostel 13 miles from Athens. Then 16 miles at Burr Oak for $160 and beyond that 24 miles to Logan for $210. Nothing in Athens and its not like there is just one hotel in town there are now 10 of them.

https://www.priceline.com/stay/#/search/...ESS&page=1

A few thousand in hotels but thousands more making the day trip to Athens. Then local support and student support which is close to 8,000 for the games. Enrollment has grown and its helping student support.

20 years ago, football weekends in Athens were nothing. 5 hotels in town and they weren't even full. If Miami was in town who traveled 2,500 fans back then Ohio could get 20k in the house. Else 15,000 if the weather was great early in the season.

The best two months of sunshine in Athens is in September and October. Rain outs only once every 3 years or so. Its a big edge.

1) Weather.
2) Weekend Student Population.
3) Setting on the river.
4) Located in the Hocking Valley a tourist area.
5) Distance from Alumni.

Alumni are figuring if they are going to go back to Athens why not do during a football weekend. Its the easiest time of year to go down there.

Once the athletic department understood how to market home football games support soared due to the natural advantages.

Miami has pretty good weather and a sizable student population going for. But Oxford is not in a tourism zone where you can be on campus and then go hiking the next day. There are no wineries or national forests around there. Plus you need to travel 2 lane roads to get to Oxford. There is less reason for a Miami grad to want to go back to campus unless in the immediate area.
04-27-2016 07:20 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-27-2016 08:44 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  I think it's true to some extent that hockey has drawn some funding and fan interest from football, but it's not the primary cause of our collapse imo. It fell apart because our previous AD let it crumble, with hockey being a small component of it. We were able to maintain a good mid-major basketball program along with our football team at the same time, so it's not like we can only choose one of three and have to write off the other two. A better argument could be made that hockey has helped kill basketball, football less so.

One edge Miami has is that they have more alumni than Ohio within 30 miles of the stadium.

When Miami's good they are capable of drawing very big. The problem is more that Miami can't automatically get the top MAC recruiting class every year like it would back in the past. Its become really competitive with staffs like Ohio gobbling up the diamonds in the rough.

Miami doesn't win, fans don't come out and it becomes a vicious cycle driving Miami's attendance down to EMU's level.

Ohio is in a cycle up where good atmosphere led to good recruiting and a great atmosphere led to even better recruiting. Plus the school plays easiest schedules in FBS most years. The team can go 6-6 with 3rd rate MAC QB. To a MAC level recruit its a great program.

Solich is going to retire at some point but they'll keep the recruiting coordinator for continuity purposes. Recruiting classes are as strong as ever with tough players up front to control the line of scrimmage. The program should stay strong.
(This post was last modified: 04-27-2016 07:51 PM by Kittonhead.)
04-27-2016 07:48 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-27-2016 01:57 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  #121 Hawaii-MWC
And that completes the Alluvial Eight, with 2 Independents, 2 AAC, and 1 each MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA and MWC.
04-27-2016 09:26 PM
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RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
#120 Kansas-Big 12
04-28-2016 12:52 AM
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RE: Orlando Sentinel College FB Countdown
(04-27-2016 09:26 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-27-2016 01:57 AM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  #121 Hawaii-MWC
And that completes the Alluvial Eight, with 2 Independents, 2 AAC, and 1 each MAC, Sunbelt, CUSA and MWC.

The Alluvial Eight?

These schools are deposits of clay, sand, and silts left behind from a flowing body of water?
04-28-2016 08:30 AM
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