(01-16-2020 04:51 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:18 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:04 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 03:50 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/01/mlb-r...andal.html

$hit just got DEEPER, holy hell

You ready to apologize to Darvish? Astros are dirty.

Anyone know what the Cardinals hitting coach is from?

The apologize to Darvish thing went right over my head. Are you insinuating the Cards are cheating too? I have yet to see them connected(doesn't mean they won't be)

You were critical of the Cubs signing Darvish in large part to the 2017 World Series. Knowing now the extent to which the Astros were cheating, I think it's fair to say that labeling him as a choker was inaccurate.

I have no evidence that the Cards have done anything similar regarding stealing signs, but there isn't a franchise that cheated more during the roid era, plus the hacking scandal they were penalized for 3 years ago.

Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:51 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:18 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:04 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 03:50 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/01/mlb-r...andal.html

$hit just got DEEPER, holy hell

You ready to apologize to Darvish? Astros are dirty.

Anyone know what the Cardinals hitting coach is from?

The apologize to Darvish thing went right over my head. Are you insinuating the Cards are cheating too? I have yet to see them connected(doesn't mean they won't be)

You were critical of the Cubs signing Darvish in large part to the 2017 World Series. Knowing now the extent to which the Astros were cheating, I think it's fair to say that labeling him as a choker was inaccurate.

I have no evidence that the Cards have done anything similar regarding stealing signs, but there isn't a franchise that cheated more during the roid era, plus the hacking scandal they were penalized for 3 years ago.

Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:51 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:18 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:04 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  You ready to apologize to Darvish? Astros are dirty.

Anyone know what the Cardinals hitting coach is from?

The apologize to Darvish thing went right over my head. Are you insinuating the Cards are cheating too? I have yet to see them connected(doesn't mean they won't be)

You were critical of the Cubs signing Darvish in large part to the 2017 World Series. Knowing now the extent to which the Astros were cheating, I think it's fair to say that labeling him as a choker was inaccurate.

I have no evidence that the Cards have done anything similar regarding stealing signs, but there isn't a franchise that cheated more during the roid era, plus the hacking scandal they were penalized for 3 years ago.

Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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(01-16-2020 07:38 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:51 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:18 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  The apologize to Darvish thing went right over my head. Are you insinuating the Cards are cheating too? I have yet to see them connected(doesn't mean they won't be)

You were critical of the Cubs signing Darvish in large part to the 2017 World Series. Knowing now the extent to which the Astros were cheating, I think it's fair to say that labeling him as a choker was inaccurate.

I have no evidence that the Cards have done anything similar regarding stealing signs, but there isn't a franchise that cheated more during the roid era, plus the hacking scandal they were penalized for 3 years ago.

Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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Sure. You could argue that, but it’s simply just moving the goal post from your stance that he choked now that we know what was really going on.


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(01-16-2020 07:43 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:38 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 04:51 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  You were critical of the Cubs signing Darvish in large part to the 2017 World Series. Knowing now the extent to which the Astros were cheating, I think it's fair to say that labeling him as a choker was inaccurate.

I have no evidence that the Cards have done anything similar regarding stealing signs, but there isn't a franchise that cheated more during the roid era, plus the hacking scandal they were penalized for 3 years ago.

Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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Sure. You could argue that, but it’s simply just moving the goal post from your stance that he choked now that we know what was really going on.


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Did you just evaluate a starting pitcher based on his win/loss record? In 2020? I know you're not a huge analytics guy, but get out of here with that. Cubs were trash in 2019. Darvish was good and worth $20 million in today's market.

(01-16-2020 07:47 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:43 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:38 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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Sure. You could argue that, but it’s simply just moving the goal post from your stance that he choked now that we know what was really going on.


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Did you just evaluate a starting pitcher based on his win/loss record? In 2020? I know you're not a huge analytics guy, but get out of here with that. Cubs were trash in 2019. Darvish was good and worth $20 million in today's market.

Did I? No. That was Hoops that doesn’t understand that sometimes a high quality pitcher’s quality outings are offset negatively through no fault of their own by a lack of offensive production. Lol


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(01-16-2020 07:47 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:43 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:38 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:22 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Not really sure I was critical just said that was a concern, and Darvish hasn’t really done jack since going so there is that


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He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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Sure. You could argue that, but it’s simply just moving the goal post from your stance that he choked now that we know what was really going on.


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Did you just evaluate a starting pitcher based on his win/loss record? In 2020? I know you're not a huge analytics guy, but get out of here with that. Cubs were trash in 2019. Darvish was good and worth $20 million in today's market.

The 4 ERA is more important to me which is league adjusted back to where he was in AL to 4.5 . I don't really give a crap about records, they are deceiving. Hell German for the Yankees won 19 games, and he wasn't great. Guy has great stuff so maybe he will perform this year, maybe he won't. But the return on the first 42 mil has not been good that is a fact. And for the record, only two of his postseason starts were Vs. Houston. One of them there, where they had the set up going. He still gave up 5 runs in 1.2 Vs them in LA. Pretty sure Toronto wasn't cheating and he gave up 5 in 5 Vs them in the postseason.(worse than his Houston Start)

(01-16-2020 08:16 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:47 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:43 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 07:38 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-16-2020 06:37 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  He was hurt in 2018 and pitched pretty well in 2019.

You didn’t pay him that money to be 6-8 with a 4 era. You could certainly do worse but it’s safe to say the return on the 42 mil he’s earned has been minimal


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Sure. You could argue that, but it’s simply just moving the goal post from your stance that he choked now that we know what was really going on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Did you just evaluate a starting pitcher based on his win/loss record? In 2020? I know you're not a huge analytics guy, but get out of here with that. Cubs were trash in 2019. Darvish was good and worth $20 million in today's market.

Did I? No. That was Hoops that doesn’t understand that sometimes a high quality pitcher’s quality outings are offset negatively through no fault of their own by a lack of offensive production. Lol


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I absolutely DO understand. I DGAF about wins/L i'm more concerned with ERA. Hell German had 19 wins for the Yankees and he wasn't that good

(01-17-2020 08:46 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I absolutely DO understand. I DGAF about wins/L i'm more concerned with ERA. Hell German had 19 wins for the Yankees and he wasn't that good

If you don't care about a metric, it's really curious to quote said metric. For the record, Darvish's adjusted ERA (his DRA, Deserved Run Average) was 2.69 (7th in the majors), along with 4.13 RA9 and 3.3 WAR. That is easily worth $20 million for a team trying to contend. I had to look up those metrics to support watch I saw with my eyes. Darvish was a bright spot in a disappointing season and an legit TOR starter in 2019.

(01-17-2020 09:17 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 08:46 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  I absolutely DO understand. I DGAF about wins/L i'm more concerned with ERA. Hell German had 19 wins for the Yankees and he wasn't that good

If you don't care about a metric, it's really curious to quote said metric. For the record, Darvish's adjusted ERA (his DRA, Deserved Run Average) was 2.69 (7th in the majors), along with 4.13 RA9 and 3.3 WAR. That is easily worth $20 million for a team trying to contend. I had to look up those metrics to support watch I saw with my eyes. Darvish was a bright spot in a disappointing season and an legit TOR starter in 2019.

How do they calculate deserved run average? I've never seen that before. Have to assume they factor in fielders defensive WARS?

This is just nuts!


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Is there any discussion of the Astros having to forfeit championships or wins?

IMO, their WS championship should come down. Their wins should all be forfeited.

As a guy that loves baseball, the entire thing absolutely disgust me. I'd be furious if I were any of the teams the Astros beat in the playoffs on their way to their championship.

Makes the Nationals win this year all the better too.

(01-17-2020 09:35 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Is there any discussion of the Astros having to forfeit championships or wins?

IMO, their WS championship should come down. Their wins should all be forfeited.

As a guy that loves baseball, the entire thing absolutely disgust me. I'd be furious if I were any of the teams the Astros beat in the playoffs on their way to their championship.

Makes the Nationals win this year all the better too.

Trust me, I'm furious. Yankees went to Game 7 and lost to them. and remember Altuve beat out Judge to AL MVP too. And I was LIVID with Chapman for smirking walking off the mound last year after just giving up the series/season ending HR to Altuve. But, maybe he knew................

(01-17-2020 09:27 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  How do they calculate deserved run average? I've never seen that before. Have to assume they factor in fielders defensive WARS?

I'm no expert, but here is a brief look at the environmental factors considered, including the defense behind him:

• The overall friendliness of the stadium to run-scoring, accounting for handedness of the batter (using our park factors here at Baseball Prospectus);
• The identity of the opposing batter;
• The identity of the catcher and umpire;
• The effect of the catcher, umpire, and batter on the likelihood of a called strike (e.g., framing / umpire strike zone, from 1988 onward);
• The handedness of the batter;
• The number of runners on base and the number of outs at the time of the event;
• The run differential between the two teams at the time of the event;
• The inning and also the half of the inning during which the event is occurring;
• The quality of the defense on the field for each individual play (assessed through BP’s FRAA[1] metric);
• Whether the defense is playing in their home stadium or on the road;
• Whether the pitcher is pitching at home or away;
• Whether the pitcher started the game or is a reliever; and
• The temperature of the game at opening pitch (from 1998 onward).
  

Here's an article with an in-depth analysis:
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/...s-friends/

Nice work Bricks.

One thing I'll say about "our" catcher. I love him. He's a piece that I would be pretty bummed if they traded. However, one area that he reeeeeaaally needs to focus on improving is his pitch framing. We have solid pitchers, and sometimes those framed pitches are the difference between getting out of an inning and disaster.

(01-17-2020 09:35 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Is there any discussion of the Astros having to forfeit championships or wins?

IMO, their WS championship should come down. Their wins should all be forfeited.

As a guy that loves baseball, the entire thing absolutely disgust me. I'd be furious if I were any of the teams the Astros beat in the playoffs on their way to their championship.

Makes the Nationals win this year all the better too.

This sucks for baseball, and for baseball fans. I'm trying not to react with recency bias, but this feels worse than Bonds/Sosa/McGuire to me.

Also, as the winner of the 2016 WS, I'm hoping against hope that Chicago was above this. Miggy's huge HR against LA in game 1 of the NLCS was at home, but it was a hanging slider. In the WS that year, we lost 2 of 3 at home. If we were stealing signs we weren't very good at it.

(01-17-2020 09:54 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-17-2020 09:27 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  How do they calculate deserved run average? I've never seen that before. Have to assume they factor in fielders defensive WARS?

I'm no expert, but here is a brief look at the environmental factors considered, including the defense behind him:

• The overall friendliness of the stadium to run-scoring, accounting for handedness of the batter (using our park factors here at Baseball Prospectus);
• The identity of the opposing batter;
• The identity of the catcher and umpire;
• The effect of the catcher, umpire, and batter on the likelihood of a called strike (e.g., framing / umpire strike zone, from 1988 onward);
• The handedness of the batter;
• The number of runners on base and the number of outs at the time of the event;
• The run differential between the two teams at the time of the event;
• The inning and also the half of the inning during which the event is occurring;
• The quality of the defense on the field for each individual play (assessed through BP’s FRAA[1] metric);
• Whether the defense is playing in their home stadium or on the road;
• Whether the pitcher is pitching at home or away;
• Whether the pitcher started the game or is a reliever; and
• The temperature of the game at opening pitch (from 1998 onward).
  

Here's an article with an in-depth analysis:
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/...s-friends/

Thanks, and interesting.
I'll take your word that he was better than the traditional stats show.

(01-17-2020 09:56 AM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  Nice work Bricks.

One thing I'll say about "our" catcher. I love him. He's a piece that I would be pretty bummed if they traded. However, one area that he reeeeeaaally needs to focus on improving is his pitch framing. We have solid pitchers, and sometimes those framed pitches are the difference between getting out of an inning and disaster.

Agree. I wasn't sure about Contreras in rookie year, but I definitely like him. We have a lot of guys who take a very measured, professional approach. A lot of "nice guys", but Javy and Willson bring energy and joy to the team. With KB being so reserved, Contreras' fire brings a good balance. I think he's gotten better at framing, but he's still below average. He's been mentioned as a potential piece for Arenado...sign me up for that, but I really like him too.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28476354

More craziness. Watch the videos within the story, the “bangs” are clear and concise


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Definitely no doubt about the "bangs" and why the penalty was what it was. I would also argue the chips need taken away from both Houston and Boston (assuming a similar finding on the Red Sox). The electronic device deal sure looks real too, in which case for Reddick or Altuve or any others found with those on, should absolutely get the ban hammer. Altuve's right at the end sure doesnt look like a wrinkle of the jersey, it is far to distinct and sharp. A shame too that they would stoop to that level.

On a different level with the White Sox pitcher who clearly heard the noises and changed his pitches, not sure how something like that didnt tip it off right away to MLB. If the pitcher heard it enough to change signs, how was that not told to his coaching staff after the inning and reported to MLB? Seems like there is an awful lot of "don't say anything" mentality in baseball. Harsh penalties here and towards players would surely remedy that some.