may hurt Kasich

NAFTA may be one of the big issues in this entire election. Americans see the damage it has done and how the ideas behind free trade have essentially sold them out.

somebody called me an idiot (not you) for bringing up nafta and lobbyists as 'not relevant' to the overall problems....

I've noticed silence over the last couple of days.....

that en macro thingy comes in handy at times.....

NAFTA is certainly a huge issue, especially in the Rust Belt. It's deeply rooted in Trump's campaign.

The idea that protectionism is going to revive American manufacturing is wishful thinking.

(03-11-2016 03:57 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The idea that protectionism is going to revive American manufacturing is wishful thinking.

You're confusing the issue.

(03-11-2016 03:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 03:57 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The idea that protectionism is going to revive American manufacturing is wishful thinking.

You're confusing the issue.

yep....over the head the birdie goes....

NAFTA created a climate in which US companies saw opportunity to move across the border and take advantage of the cheap labor without penalty. The second Congress saw this happening...it should have levied a stiff tax on goods from those companies. This is the part of NAFTA that was a failure IMO and one that was not foreseen. Actually...If you do some research NAFTA was generally successful in its goals other than this. The GDP of all 3 nations increased after NAFTA...there was a modest increase in wages in all 3 nations after NAFTA and almost zero of the fears that many had about it materialized...except the one that PEROT predicted...That giant sucking sound.

I don't know if this is particularly damaging to Kasich or not. It was fast tracked by Bush and signed by more Republicans than Democrats. There is a lot of argument on its damage or success. I believe it was a failure...not because of the treaty..but..the lack of attention to its consequences by later administrations and leaders in Congress. NAFTA could have been actually a great deal if it had been tracked each year and the problems it created had been addressed.

(03-11-2016 04:00 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  NAFTA created a climate in which US companies saw opportunity to move across the border and take advantage of the cheap labor without penalty. The second Congress saw this happening...it should have levied a stiff tax on goods from those companies. This is the part of NAFTA that was a failure IMO and one that was not foreseen. Actually...If you do some research NAFTA was generally successful in its goals other than this. The GDP of all 3 nations increased after NAFTA...there was a modest increase in wages in all 3 nations after NAFTA and almost zero of the fears that many had about it materialized...except the one that PEROT predicted...That giant sucking sound.

I don't know if this is particularly damaging to Kasich or not. It was fast tracked by Bush and signed by more Republicans than Democrats. There is a lot of argument on its damage or success. I believe it was a failure...not because of the treaty..but..the lack of attention to its consequences by later administrations and leaders in Congress. NAFTA could have been actually a great deal if it had been tracked each year and the problems it created had been addressed.

I cannot agree enough more with the above....this is where the red fk'd it all up....

I'm going to take it a step further with robotics.....that shite has to stop too.....

at some point people need to understand the simple shite.....

(03-11-2016 03:57 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  The idea that protectionism is going to revive American manufacturing is wishful thinking.

I tend to agree. I do however think that there is a point in which steps should be taken to close loopholes and remove barriers to business which incentivize companies to leave our shores. If that is protectionism?...then I am for it.

American manufacturing has faltered under abuse, not competition.

(03-11-2016 04:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  American manufacturing has faltered under abuse, not competition.

the onion crying unions.....

dem dimwits.....

(03-11-2016 04:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  American manufacturing has faltered under abuse, not competition.

Im not going to argue against that. NAFTA is just a small part of the problem. I agree with Trump actually and believe it is his single best campaign issue....We have allowed countries to dump cheap products (often below cost with the intention to destroy competition) into America that have destroyed entire industries. Here in NC that dumping destroyed a thriving furniture industry. Thomasville and Hickory are mere shadows of themselves now because of it.

The company I worked for for 30 years went from over 100 employees to less than 20 in 5 years much attributed to this dumping. We supplied plywood parts to the furniture industry. That all went away quickly..and has not come back.

I have no problem with free trade with nations that have similar labor laws, similar worker protections, similar business regulation, similar consumer protection regulation, similar product safety requirements, similar environmental regulation.

But free trade to get away from those things is...exploitation...not trade.

(03-11-2016 04:15 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 04:07 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  American manufacturing has faltered under abuse, not competition.

Im not going to argue against that. NAFTA is just a small part of the problem. I agree with Trump actually and believe it is his single best campaign issue....We have allowed countries to dump cheap products (often below cost with the intention to destroy competition) into America that have destroyed entire industries. Here in NC that dumping destroyed a thriving furniture industry. Thomasville and Hickory are mere shadows of themselves now because of it.

The company I worked for for 30 years went from over 100 employees to less than 20 in 5 years much attributed to this dumping. We supplied plywood parts to the furniture industry. That all went away quickly..and has not come back.

and mfg is growing in the south, why?

politics and how money has driven such is beyond fk'd up.....check and balances.....y'all can lick it like supply/demand created the price increase katrina....

gekko is nothing more than gordon's creek that is getting ready overflow (it's a local creek that got flooded back in '79....had to be redesigned after that....it's no longer a flood zone..)

this board is like going back to EC0101 and lining prof trellis g. a gator down hardy st....

costa baby.....

As a resident of Central Pennsylvania, I am surrounded by evidence of once booming industrial towns. It is a tragedy to see the emptiness and gutted towns trying to make it. But hey, the unions bosses don't care and neither does the Left.

(03-11-2016 04:52 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  As a resident of Central Pennsylvania, I am surrounded by evidence of once booming industrial towns. It is a tragedy to see the emptiness and gutted towns trying to make it. But hey, the unions bosses don't care and neither does the Left.

johnstown brought my pappy down here......yeah....union escapism it was.....

how is York Int doing these days.....yeah, they bought us out...then got bought by JCI....

this puzzle is easy to put together....

(03-11-2016 05:01 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 04:52 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  As a resident of Central Pennsylvania, I am surrounded by evidence of once booming industrial towns. It is a tragedy to see the emptiness and gutted towns trying to make it. But hey, the unions bosses don't care and neither does the Left.

johnstown brought my pappy down here......yeah....union escapism it was.....

how is York Int doing these days.....yeah, they bought us out...then got bought by JCI....

this puzzle is easy to put together....

Ah, Johnstown. A nice town which got nailed by a flood which gave PA a "temporary" liquor tax and has gotten nailed by the unions. I went to Catholic high school in Altoona so we played some Johnstown schools. Any family with money (and some without) sent their kids to Bishop Carroll because the public schools are that poor and dangerous.

I have never been to York. I live near Penn State, hopefully I see more of the Keystone State if time permits. Actually, when I was young I saw Southern Miss play PSU at Beaver Stadium. That was a good memory.

Yeah free trade sucks, except when you want to buy a product that costs less than if it were made in America.

(03-11-2016 05:05 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 05:01 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 04:52 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  As a resident of Central Pennsylvania, I am surrounded by evidence of once booming industrial towns. It is a tragedy to see the emptiness and gutted towns trying to make it. But hey, the unions bosses don't care and neither does the Left.

johnstown brought my pappy down here......yeah....union escapism it was.....

how is York Int doing these days.....yeah, they bought us out...then got bought by JCI....

this puzzle is easy to put together....

Ah, Johnstown. A nice town which got nailed by a flood which gave PA a "temporary" liquor tax and has gotten nailed by the unions. I went to Catholic high school in Altoona so we played some Johnstown schools. Any family with money (and some without) sent their kids to Bishop Carroll because the public schools are that poor and dangerous.

I have never been to York. I live near Penn State, hopefully I see more of the Keystone State if time permits. Actually, when I was young I saw Southern Miss play PSU at Beaver Stadium. That was a good memory.

a couple of things about PA that always cracked me up.....happy valley and pleasant gap....some quaker had a sense of humor and wasn't gay....

and j-town has more bars/churches per sq. mi than another other town in america.....

I also worked for an eng firm in PDX....the most titty bars per sq. mi.....the blue dolphin for lunch was too much fun......

(03-11-2016 05:12 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  Yeah free trade sucks, except when you want to buy a product that costs less than if it were made in America.

Why does it cost less?