I put teachers into the same lot as police. It's a thankless job where you are the first person thrown under the bus.

(03-10-2016 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  The best measures for teacher effectiveness are found by measuring growth. If a child is reading at a 3rd grade level in the 6th grade he isn't going to suddenly be reading at a 7th grade level in June. But if that child has gained a year and a half in his reading level then those teachers and that student have done an amazing job. Unfortunately, more often the teachers, that school and that student are viewed as failures because that child at the end of the 6th grade is reading below grade level.

If a child reaches the 6th grade reading at a 3rd grade level I hope the school is held responsible.

(03-10-2016 07:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  The best measures for teacher effectiveness are found by measuring growth. If a child is reading at a 3rd grade level in the 6th grade he isn't going to suddenly be reading at a 7th grade level in June. But if that child has gained a year and a half in his reading level then those teachers and that student have done an amazing job. Unfortunately, more often the teachers, that school and that student are viewed as failures because that child at the end of the 6th grade is reading below grade level.

If a child reaches the 6th grade reading at a 3rd grade level I hope the school is held responsible.

Administrators are never at fault.

It's the teacher's fault that the kids he/she is given are woefully inadequate. Didn't you know that?

That's part of the problem with any evaluation system. The responsibility is completely on the teacher when in reality it must be on the kids and parents.

(03-10-2016 07:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  The best measures for teacher effectiveness are found by measuring growth. If a child is reading at a 3rd grade level in the 6th grade he isn't going to suddenly be reading at a 7th grade level in June. But if that child has gained a year and a half in his reading level then those teachers and that student have done an amazing job. Unfortunately, more often the teachers, that school and that student are viewed as failures because that child at the end of the 6th grade is reading below grade level.

If a child reaches the 6th grade reading at a 3rd grade level I hope the school is held responsible.

The easiest thing in the world is to make the school responsible for some kid with a 70 IQ not keeping up. Why is it the schools fault that some dense kid isn't learning at grade level???

In the old days, these kids would have been put into the "special classes" and not been counted with the regular kids. Oh no!!! Not today - today we have to mainstream them with the regular kids and test them!!!!!

You can't swing a dead cat in a public school these days and not hit a kid with an intervention plan because they are "disabled" with attention deficit or sensory overload or some other made up ailment.

They are all in "special" classes.

Most are simply lazy and are raised by trash that are just as lazy. We all know the type; it's always somebody else's fault.

all of you guys are making great points....

what it really comes down to are the jobs that are available vs the talent/gene pool....

nobody wins this game except the ones with a brain or are willing to get their hands dirty....and even some of 'they' are going to struggle moving forward....

there is no one solution fits all in legislation....

and Creb....I'm with you on the I.Q. structuring.....it's too deep that I'm willing to define in detail, but I believe that is the path that needs to be explored in conjunction with the limiting of robotics/ai.....yeah, I'm sure that won't go over well with the free enterprise folks....

to use a yogi-ism, it is what it is now....and it's one big cf....

(03-10-2016 07:09 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 05:15 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  The best measures for teacher effectiveness are found by measuring growth. If a child is reading at a 3rd grade level in the 6th grade he isn't going to suddenly be reading at a 7th grade level in June. But if that child has gained a year and a half in his reading level then those teachers and that student have done an amazing job. Unfortunately, more often the teachers, that school and that student are viewed as failures because that child at the end of the 6th grade is reading below grade level.

If a child reaches the 6th grade reading at a 3rd grade level I hope the school is held responsible.

Kap, if you think about it 50-60 years ago the chaff generally separated itself from the wheat. Lots of kids left school long before they graduated and would go work on some farm or dig ditches or be a garbage man, etc.

Today - they all, by law, stay. They may not want to be there, don't care about school, are the offspring of druggies - whatever. Yet somehow, a teacher and school have their feet held to the fire to educate this dumb, unwilling student?

Should a PE teacher be deemed a failure if he can't get ALL his athletes to run a 12 second flat 100 meter dash? We would never do that, yet we act as though all kids brains are almost equal............

(03-10-2016 07:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You can't swing a dead cat in a public school these days and not hit a kid with an intervention plan because they are "disabled" with attention deficit or sensory overload or some other made up ailment.

They are all in "special" classes.

Most are simply lazy and are raised by trash that are just as lazy. We all know the type; it's always somebody else's fault.

I would agree to an extent, but learning disabilities are real. I've taught a good number that fit your description but l've also taught a good number that have very real learning disabilities that make it very difficult to succeed academically with traditional teaching methods. I've also taught plenty of children that worked very hard but just lacked the intelligence to succeed to any great extent. But we need to remember that doesn't lessen their worth as people or eliminate the possibility that they will become very successful in life.

(03-10-2016 01:00 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  shite....the place I call missippy and the 'sip....I just don't know why....

while I understand the premise, I live here....

therefore, I say it's beyond stupid for the stupid to attempt to take care of the puppies.....

it's amazingly ironic how red this state 'thinks' at that level of politics....

at some point it comes a tumbling.....all my arse needs are a handful more years of earnings......

my prose is real fk'n world shite.....not sum dim sum fag crapola solution that is meaningless....

edit: gonna give you sums incite....the dnc contacted a former shop floor worker that was pretty and dumb as a rock to run for a local seat....he thought roses....he is now privately employed.....

it's funny how shite works itself out....

people need to fail and learn the basics....it's those meek that will have a chance....

My guess is it is an attempt to show blacks are "bad" parents.

(03-10-2016 07:09 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I put teachers into the same lot as police. It's a thankless job where you are the first person thrown under the bus.

I tend to agree. My view is of course skewed by being the son of a teacher. I watched how much dedication and work she put into her job for the 31 years she did it.

I believe most teachers are fine. The problem is that they have to be both teacher and parent to kids because many of them have no home training and lack the ability to behave and try to learn. Many of them also come from uneducated dolts. Instead of removing these kids and putting them in specialized schooling designed to address their problems?...We leave them in the classrooms to disrupt the education of those that want to learn. What happens is that teachers begin to teach to the lowest common denominator and everyone suffers. Teaching is a damn hard job. I have great respect for what they do personally.

(03-10-2016 09:06 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 07:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You can't swing a dead cat in a public school these days and not hit a kid with an intervention plan because they are "disabled" with attention deficit or sensory overload or some other made up ailment.

They are all in "special" classes.

Most are simply lazy and are raised by trash that are just as lazy. We all know the type; it's always somebody else's fault.

I would agree to an extent, but learning disabilities are real. I've taught a good number that fit your description but l've also taught a good number that have very real learning disabilities that make it very difficult to succeed academically with traditional teaching methods. I've also taught plenty of children that worked very hard but just lacked the intelligence to succeed to any great extent. But we need to remember that doesn't lessen their worth as people or eliminate the possibility that they will become very successful in life.

One of the problems is that teachers are forced to have to alter their methods to address particular students and their learning disabilities while still trying to engage and teach the rest. That makes the job hard. Kids with these disabilities need specialized classrooms and teachers set up to help them. Of course when you suggest that someones child needs to be removed from the normal setting...All hell breaks loose. Parents resist having their child removed to special settings and often the administration caves and leaves them in the traditional classes. This helps no one.

When you have a student that has a "handler" with them all day in the traditional classes?...You have a problem.

Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

I'm gonna take an easy stab at this one......they ignore you or give you shite.....

that's what I did.....hell, I made a couple of 'em cry.....

(03-11-2016 11:01 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

I'm gonna take an easy stab at this one......they ignore you or give you shite.....

that's what I did.....hell, I made a couple of 'em cry.....

No. They just require more of my attention and therefore, takes me away from the other students.

(03-11-2016 11:10 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 11:01 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

I'm gonna take an easy stab at this one......they ignore you or give you shite.....

that's what I did.....hell, I made a couple of 'em cry.....

No. They just require more of my attention and therefore, takes me away from the other students.

I thought you said you werent a teacher anymore?

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

My daughter had a kid in one of her classes that was so disruptive that they had to have a damn handler with them. The kids parents actually threatened a lawsuit to keep him in HS. He was damn near retarded and had NO business there. This is the kind of stuff that need to end. Also...I oppose forcing anyone to attend High School. If they want to drop out and find a job and learn skills by working...fine with me. The fewer students in school that dont want to be there and are making it hard on everyone else...the better.

We also need to target kids in middle school and identify those that want to be in the trades and have no aptitude or desire to go to college. Teach them carpentry,auto repair, masonry,plumbing, electrical..ect. Let them go do their thing if they want wish too. Stop making kids sit in classes that are going be useless to them later on.

(03-11-2016 02:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

My daughter had a kid in one of her classes that was so disruptive that they had to have a damn handler with them. The kids parents actually threatened a lawsuit to keep him in HS. He was damn near retarded and had NO business there. This is the kind of stuff that need to end. Also...I oppose forcing anyone to attend High School. If they want to drop out and find a job and learn skills by working...fine with me. The fewer students in school that dont want to be there and are making it hard on everyone else...the better.

We also need to target kids in middle school and identify those that want to be in the trades and have no aptitude or desire to go to college. Teach them carpentry,auto repair, masonry,plumbing, electrical..ect. Let them go do their thing if they want wish too. Stop making kids sit in classes that are going be useless to them later on.

I've said it from day 1....not all are created equal....not yet....

life.....sad as it can be, 10 fingers and 10 toes is all one can ask for out of the womb....there are no guarantees and nothing is handed to most....

tv and pc has fk'd more lives up than any birth defect of mental deficiency....(note, I left out the god thingy)

all I know, is I have zero patience at this point in the game....my plan is already mapped out....

now it's my fk'n turn to use line 4 as a line item veto....

(03-11-2016 02:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

My daughter had a kid in one of her classes that was so disruptive that they had to have a damn handler with them. The kids parents actually threatened a lawsuit to keep him in HS. He was damn near retarded and had NO business there. This is the kind of stuff that need to end. Also...I oppose forcing anyone to attend High School. If they want to drop out and find a job and learn skills by working...fine with me. The fewer students in school that dont want to be there and are making it hard on everyone else...the better.

We also need to target kids in middle school and identify those that want to be in the trades and have no aptitude or desire to go to college. Teach them carpentry,auto repair, masonry,plumbing, electrical..ect. Let them go do their thing if they want wish too. Stop making kids sit in classes that are going be useless to them later on.

We were actually doing that at one time. There were introductory classing in middle school for the trades. It was a very good program that helped develop interest in the trade classes at the high schools. Then when they started slashing education funds they had to end the program.

(03-11-2016 08:43 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 02:22 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 10:53 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Good point. I have had to teach all kinds of kids with mental, physical, and behavioral limitations. While I didn't mind doing it, it does take away from the other students.

My daughter had a kid in one of her classes that was so disruptive that they had to have a damn handler with them. The kids parents actually threatened a lawsuit to keep him in HS. He was damn near retarded and had NO business there. This is the kind of stuff that need to end. Also...I oppose forcing anyone to attend High School. If they want to drop out and find a job and learn skills by working...fine with me. The fewer students in school that dont want to be there and are making it hard on everyone else...the better.

We also need to target kids in middle school and identify those that want to be in the trades and have no aptitude or desire to go to college. Teach them carpentry,auto repair, masonry,plumbing, electrical..ect. Let them go do their thing if they want wish too. Stop making kids sit in classes that are going be useless to them later on.

We were actually doing that at one time. There were introductory classing in middle school for the trades. It was a very good program that helped develop interest in the trade classes at the high schools. Then when they started slashing education funds they had to end the program.

THIS in conjunction with having the jobs available for 'those'....

This is 'why' Trump..........

I got a letter from school demanding that I provide a list of all my children's extracurricular activities such as sports, exercise programs, physical training, scouting, etc.

As authority it claimed they were acting under Arkansas Law number blah, blah, blah.

I looked up that law online. It was a law establishing a nutritional advisory committee to provide recommendations. It was apparently a committee required by the Feds to qualify the state for some sort of funding or something.

In any event, that law gave neither them....or the committee....no authority whatsoever to demand anything at all from anybody. It was just boilerplate somebody came up with to scare parents into compliance with their demands.

I wrote NUNYA on the form with a Sharpie. I never heard a word back from them.

I graded them with an F.

The whole public educational enterprise seems to have forgotten that they are the servants and not the masters. Start issuing grades to your bosses and see how it goes.