WizardRebel Wrote:Al Franken... he twists the facts he has gathered to make it sound good for the left.





My point is that I didn't see anything wrong with what Rush said last week. The only problem was that he was white. Face it, and I'm not a racist by any stretch of the imagination, but if I say something negative about a black football player, it's not okay.

First off, Rush was wrong because McNabb and alot of other black NFL QB's have receieved lots and lots of bad press. Had Rush read the Philladelphia Inquirer before the show last Sunday he would have seen that the press up there had been very critical of McNabb. Rush would have also had seen, moreoever, had he done his research, that Philly fans and media pundits disagreed totally with the Eagles picking McNabb way back when (source: USA Today and the CL's Rick Cleveland although I really despise Rick).
On another note, Stewart is getting bad press, everyone is second guessing him. And furthermore, Aaron Brooks in N.O. has to be the most press-beleaguered QB in the NFL. Everyone in N.O. hates him and they have for years.

So what Rush said is, plain and simple, WRONG, and poorly researched! I don't think there is an agenda being pushed on the NFL, I think the NFL and the franchises will do whatever it takes to win and make money. That is what their agenda is, making dough and winning, nothing else. If they would make money by being racist, then they'll do that, if the would make money by being diverse and liberal, then they'll do that.

About Franken and twisting facts, that works both ways. I've seen and heard so many GOP type pundits twist facts to support their positions. Not only that, but the conservative pundits are kings of the strawman logical fallacies. A good example of a strawman is "liberals hate America..." This position is easy to knock down, that is why the fallacy is called a strawman. The problem is, few if any liberals hold this position. Few, if any, liberals argue that we should all hate America. Conservative pundits are pulling this out of their arses when they say this. These type strawman fallacies are comparable to the liberal strawman, "republicans are fascists..."
When we talk about political punditsy, we are getting into the realm of rhetoric, that is all that it is. I don't follow people like Franken around and get all my information from him. I'm too smart for that, I seek out the primary sources and get the information myself. I just wish right-wingers would do that more, get the info themselves, rather than relying on Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter and Novak to supply them with their information. When info goes through filters, such as right and left pundits, it turns into rhetoric. By rule, rhetoric is unreliable because it is opinion and it is not information.

Well, no matter what you boys say about Rush, I'd say his stint is over as a voice for the american conservatives. With the McNabb statements and this new pill-poppin' allegation, I don't see him standing a chance. It's as good as over.

I suppose his replacement will be Bill O'Reilly.

YEA!

Rush has been proven to be such a big fat idiot for so long that I wonder if it's even worth debating. . .Al Franken, however, has always proven his points beyond a shadow of a doubt. Anyhoo. . .

Nah. It's really not worth the words. We can always agree to disagree.

What I always wonder about is *why* a regular working stiff would take sides with the power elite? What do you have in common with the Man? What's in it for you?

Working stiffs hope to be the Man someday just like the yeoman farmer hoped to be the Planter.

(shhhhh Vlad. . .trying to spur some new thought here)

Class, would someone who doesn't think the way I do about the economy like to comment on the "Slave wants to be the massah" mentality which pervades the conservative circles?

joebordenrebel Wrote:(shhhhh Vlad. . .trying to spur some new thought here)

Class, would someone who doesn't think the way I do about the economy like to comment on the "Slave wants to be the massah" mentality which pervades the conservative circles?

If that's the way you feel about the conservatives comrade, you are certainly entitled. However, I see no reason to find credibility in a political way of thinking (liberal democrats) that wants to be the big world massah and have all of us little people paying 90% of our income to them. You think the conservative system doesn't work for you now JBR? Okay, well hypothetically speaking, say Hitlary Clinton gets elected President and the Dems control both the house and senate. You'll get your universal health care that you so badly want. By the way, universal health care in Canada, the U.K., etc. is a miserable failure. I have friends from Canada who played hockey in Tupelo. They all live in the States now because it is so much better than what they are used to. They say it's not uncommon with their health system to have a major medical problem, but have to wait for 10-12 hours in the emergency room before being seen. If you are having cardiac arrest, that's a problem now isn't it? The government will get much larger and the military (whom you seem to find to be the evil ones because of the war) will be cut down. Then, once our defenses are down to nothing, these "friends" that Hitlary wants to make in the middle east will make 9/11 look like an afternoon picnic.

Back to talk radio thing for a second. I've never said that I get my information from Rush or Boortz or Hannity...etc. Neal Boortz will be the first to tell you that these talk shows are to help people form their own opinions and NEVER to take what he says seriously until you've confirmed it with at least two sources. That's why I like him better than any of the other guys. Rush isn't through simply because his die hards will stick by him and he has the backing of the Clear Channel evil empire and Premier Radio Networks. He will only fail if program directors start dropping him, and as good as his ratings are nationwide, that won't happen.

Now as to my way of thinking as JBR seems to want me to express without directly asking me to, I am a conservative and yes, I have historically voted Republican. The conservative system has always worked for me. HOWEVER, I always listen to the candidates, and their views on the issues before I make a decision. I spent my life in Georgia and have voted for several Georgia Democrats because they were stronger candidates at the time. Case and point, I voted for Zell Miller for governor in 1994, because the Republican candidate was flat weak. He had no plan. Zell was an ex-marine and not overly liberal. He was tough on crime, and under his leadership, crime in Georgia went down. The last governor Roy Barnes (also a Dem) was a complete failure. I didn't have the luxury of voting against him since I was voting in Mississippi at that point.

Just my thoughts.

WR

Well, my point is the Demicans and Republicrats are all about the same. Business as usual. If you REALLY think Bill Clinton was a liberal softie and W is a kick-arse real man then you just aren't paying enough attention to the rest of the <a href='http://www.politicalcompass.org' target='_blank'>political spectrum</a>.

So please stop calling me a liberal. I'm way farther left than that. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist <a href='http://www.anarchosyndicalism.org/as.php' target='_blank'>which means this.</a>

Has this massive military ever caught five guys armed with boxcutters? How about a former marine armed with a U Haul of fertilizer? Why didn't this macho man cowboy scramble a couple of jets when we figured out fairly early on in the highjacking that something was not right. I've heard that's SOP, but not on 9-11-01. Why not?

Even better, pop quiz.

Bin Laden hates the U.S. because:

A) we are so FREE and BEAUTIFUL and he's JEALOUS.
B) he's pissed because of the LAST gulf war we had.
C) he dreams of eating grapes in Heaven when he blows himself up.
D) he's just a deranged lunatic.

That's right, boys and girls, the answer is B. Now, doesn't it stand to reason that if we KEEP pissing middle-easterners off with our totalitarian boot-kicking that they will continue to hate our guts, set off car bombs, hi-jack airplanes, etc.?

It's obvious we'll never agree on any of these issues, Wiz. I still want an answer to my question, though. Why are you so happy about supporting the massah? What's in it for you? Are the GOP's sending you checks every month to parrot their propaganda?

Quote:Has this massive military ever caught five guys armed with boxcutters?

It isn't the military's job to catch men at airports with boxcutters JBR, it is the job of airport secuirty. Nice try though, you make some valid points.

Bin Ladin may well be pissed because of the last war, that's all the more reason to kill him. We'll get him, trust me

As for the Marine with all the fertalize. Common sense says bomb, but really, do we know what his intentions were. I know I will be flamed for this, because I realize how implicating it is. The Marine Corps has men within it's ranks who are crazy, every branch does, as well as every ogranization, and most every business. Big deal! I didn't lash out at the entire US when we had a complete moron for a president (Clinton, although I am sure you will say Bush is also).

I'll step up and answer the question you asked for wiz, though I am sure he will come up with one for himself. It's what I believe. I believe that we need a large military to take care of the obligations we have overseas, and keep ourselves safe. I mean, if we reduce the military, but do not remove presence from coutries such as the Korea's, Japan, Germany etc, then by lessening their numbers, they are more prone to attack. This is not acceptable. Beef up the military, take care of the problems overseas, then get home.

Also, I am not sure of your stance here, but am I correct in assuming you want a larger government? I believe that is the desire of lefties (it's been a while since I studied this crap, please excuse my ignorance to it). Let's look at history. Russia - HUGE government (although communist). Provided people no incintive to work, because they had to give their money to the government, so, basically, it encourages mediorcrity, because you can never rise above. Russia went bankrupt; end of story. Same with N. Korea now. They are begging us for money weekly (and even though I say let the little communist bastards starve till they do what we say) yea, that's right, the democracy we have, is feeding the governments you would like to be apart of. The less government we have, the more people are able to make their own decisions, thus making them more modivated to work hard (BTW, I do not support welfare except for the disabled) and earn their own keep, and make a difference.

I am sure you will shoot my post to threads as you are very intellegent, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in.