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IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #41
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 03:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If any seven grouping has been together eight years, wants to form another conference, and would meet the definition of a conference with the needed sports for an autobid, the court would find in their favor. The NCAA would have to pay big time damages if it didnt, unless the NCAA again change the rules before hand.

They changed the rules already. In 2011. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point.

Not trolling. You and others just don't get it. The Big East didn't have any favors done to them to get an autobid, no matter what you think.

"Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.
01-30-2016 03:12 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #42
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 02:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 11:35 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:18 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 12:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 12:31 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The Big East got the autobid because after they were voted into the non-FB subdivision list, they met all the criteria.

You're correct, Bruce. Here is the report of the NCAA board meeting at which the new Big East was voted in. See item 5: "The Board voted to approve the Big East Conference as a Division I core conference to be added to the Division I governance and championships structure, effective for NCAA purposes on August 1, 2013. "

Great find wedge. This does lead me to believe that if a conference split a la the big east and met the new 7 schools for 8 years rule a la the big east then they would be voted in via precedent

A conference can make that argument when asking the NCAA board to vote them in, but there is no rule requiring the board to give a new conference an autobid. The biggest factor favoring the Big East is that its members excel at men's hoops and thus their champ will almost always be deserving of an at large bid even if they had no autobid. Also, this split was a legitimate "divorce" of two groups with vastly different interests who did not want to be together anymore; it wasn't some attempt to pull shenanigans or find a loophole or just get extra autobids. And, the core of that new BE group had been together for 30 years, not just 8. It would be a big mistake to just assume that an autobid would be given to a new league that didn't have all these factors going for them. The top basketball conferences absolutely do not want to create new autobids that would effectively push at-large teams out of March Madness, and the NCAA board will act accordingly.

If any seven grouping has been together eight years, wants to form another conference, and would meet the definition of a conference with the needed sports for an autobid, the court would find in their favor. The NCAA would have to pay big time damages if it didnt, unless the NCAA again change the rules before hand.

You're pretending that the rules that the NCAA members voted for will magically go away as soon as someone calls Saul Goodman's 1-800 number and files a lawsuit.

This is all about protecting the number of at-large bids in NCAA tournaments. The NCAA changed the rules specifically to make the NCAA board a gatekeeper for autobids. The NCAA members don't want to give two autobids to perennial one-bid conferences who want to split in two, because that effectively pushes at-large teams out of the NCAA tournament. One of the amended rules (4.01.2.3.1) even guarantees the current ratio of autobids to the size of an NCAA tournament field won't increase above what it was in 2014-15. That means they have agreed to either keep a lid on the number of autobids or, if they do increase autobids, then the size of NCAA tournaments in every sport has to be increased to add more at-large teams.

There is no "8 year" rule for new conferences. What is in the rules now is only a mechanism for existing conferences to keep existing autobids if the conference has a mass exodus like the WAC did. And that was put in specifically to protect the WAC as the WAC was falling apart.
01-30-2016 03:16 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #43
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 03:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  There is no "8 year" rule for new conferences. What is in the rules now is only a mechanism for existing conferences to keep existing autobids if the conference has a mass exodus like the WAC did. And that was put in specifically to protect the WAC as the WAC was falling apart.

I think there is, actually. A new conference has to wait 8 years, meeting all of the multisport conference requirements, before it gets an autobid--you can read the existing rules as saying that if the "Big Apple Athletic Conference" begins play in 2016-17 with 7 Division I members and has the required number and mix of sports, and can keep on keeping on for 8 years, THEN they've established continuity and the qualify for an automatic bid in 2024-25.

Of course, 8 years is a long time for schools to miss out on NCAA Tournament money (assuming they'd be a one-bid league). It's a long, hard road, and the schools would all have to trust each other to stick it out for the whole 8 year term, with a constant prisoners' dilemna that a couple of schools would bolt for established conferences and the whole project crashes. Like what happened to the Big WEst and the FBS WAC.

And on the gripping hand, 8 years is a long enough time that, if the BAAC does hang together for 5 or 6 years, everyone else has time to decide how to handle it--expand the Tournament again, change the rules, P5 breakaway, summon Cthulu, etc.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 03:27 PM by johnbragg.)
01-30-2016 03:26 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #44
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 03:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  There is no "8 year" rule for new conferences. What is in the rules now is only a mechanism for existing conferences to keep existing autobids if the conference has a mass exodus like the WAC did. And that was put in specifically to protect the WAC as the WAC was falling apart.

I think there is, actually. A new conference has to wait 8 years, meeting all of the multisport conference requirements, before it gets an autobid--you can read the existing rules as saying that if the "Big Apple Athletic Conference" begins play in 2016-17 with 7 Division I members and has the required number and mix of sports, and can keep on keeping on for 8 years, THEN they've established continuity and the qualify for an automatic bid in 2024-25.

Of course, 8 years is a long time for schools to miss out on NCAA Tournament money (assuming they'd be a one-bid league). It's a long, hard road, and the schools would all have to trust each other to stick it out for the whole 8 year term, with a constant prisoners' dilemna that a couple of schools would bolt for established conferences and the whole project crashes. Like what happened to the Big WEst and the FBS WAC.

And on the gripping hand, 8 years is a long enough time that, if the BAAC does hang together for 5 or 6 years, everyone else has time to decide how to handle it--expand the Tournament again, change the rules, P5 breakaway, summon Cthulu, etc.

Regardless if its automatic or not---its still a hell of a discouragement to the development of new conferences. I remember back when CUSA was formed I think we had to wait 2 years to get autobids. It sucked, but it wasn't the end of the world. Eight years without autobids is almost a decade. That's a whole different ballgame.
01-30-2016 03:33 PM
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DoubleRSU Offline
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Post: #45
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
The NCAA does not want a bunch of D1 independents and new conferences sprouting up. They will "protect" the WAC and other similar conferences if its in their best interest.
01-30-2016 03:53 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #46
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 03:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  There is no "8 year" rule for new conferences. What is in the rules now is only a mechanism for existing conferences to keep existing autobids if the conference has a mass exodus like the WAC did. And that was put in specifically to protect the WAC as the WAC was falling apart.

I think there is, actually. A new conference has to wait 8 years, meeting all of the multisport conference requirements, before it gets an autobid--you can read the existing rules as saying that if the "Big Apple Athletic Conference" begins play in 2016-17 with 7 Division I members and has the required number and mix of sports, and can keep on keeping on for 8 years, THEN they've established continuity and the qualify for an automatic bid in 2024-25.

That's correct. What is not correct is the idea that any rando group of teams that has been in a conference for 8 years can start a new one and demand autobids from day one.
01-30-2016 04:49 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #47
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 04:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:26 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  There is no "8 year" rule for new conferences. What is in the rules now is only a mechanism for existing conferences to keep existing autobids if the conference has a mass exodus like the WAC did. And that was put in specifically to protect the WAC as the WAC was falling apart.

I think there is, actually. A new conference has to wait 8 years, meeting all of the multisport conference requirements, before it gets an autobid--you can read the existing rules as saying that if the "Big Apple Athletic Conference" begins play in 2016-17 with 7 Division I members and has the required number and mix of sports, and can keep on keeping on for 8 years, THEN they've established continuity and the qualify for an automatic bid in 2024-25.

That's correct. What is not correct is the idea that any rando group of teams that has been in a conference for 8 years can start a new one and demand autobids from day one.

Yes, but when I started this thread, I thought the rule was "New conferences can go kick rocks until the end of time, unless the Powers That Be decide otherwise."
01-30-2016 06:59 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #48
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
#
(01-30-2016 03:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If any seven grouping has been together eight years, wants to form another conference, and would meet the definition of a conference with the needed sports for an autobid, the court would find in their favor. The NCAA would have to pay big time damages if it didnt, unless the NCAA again change the rules before hand.

They changed the rules already. In 2011. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point.

Not trolling. You and others just don't get it. The Big East didn't have any favors done to them to get an autobid, no matter what you think.

"Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.

The NCAA formerly had a rule where new DI teams could transition over five years and then over eight years become a core member and form a conference. The term "core member" was dropped and the transition was dropped to four years, but DII schools can only move up if they had a bid from an existing confernce. The eight year continuity rule remains in place, as shown by the new Big East getting an autobid. New conferences by definition can no longer form from DII members, so those rules became superfluous and we're dropped.

All the rules about a new conference forming from DII moveups went away, not the continuity requirements that went with them. There is still eight years continuity for seven members. The P5 wants that to protect themselves from an unforseen event, i.e. something worse than Paterno. The new Big East took advantage of it. As a Big East fan on this board it must be pretty shameful not to know that, so understand that your pride was wounded.

I been following the rules since I was a teen in the 70s. They've changeded massively from the days the Big South and Transamerica moved to DI from DII. The MWC, Great Midwest, American South, and CUSA didnot get autobids right off the bat.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 07:56 PM by NoDak.)
01-30-2016 07:53 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #49
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 07:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  #
(01-30-2016 03:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:41 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If any seven grouping has been together eight years, wants to form another conference, and would meet the definition of a conference with the needed sports for an autobid, the court would find in their favor. The NCAA would have to pay big time damages if it didnt, unless the NCAA again change the rules before hand.

They changed the rules already. In 2011. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point.

Not trolling. You and others just don't get it. The Big East didn't have any favors done to them to get an autobid, no matter what you think.

"Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.

The NCAA formerly had a rule where new DI teams could transition over five years and then over eight years become a core member and form a conference. The term "core member" was dropped and the transition was dropped to four years, but DII schools can only move up if they had a bid from an existing confernce. The eight year continuity rule remains in place, as shown by the new Big East getting an autobid. New conferences by definition can no longer form from DII members, so those rules became superfluous and we're dropped.

All the rules about a new conference forming from DII moveups went away, not the continuity requirements that went with them. There is still eight years continuity for seven members. The P5 wants that to protect themselves from an unforseen event, i.e. something worse than Paterno. The new Big East took advantage of it. As a Big East fan on this board it must be pretty shameful not to know that, so understand that your pride was wounded.

I been following the rules since I was a teen in the 70s. They've changeded massively from the days the Big South and Transamerica moved to DI from DII. The MWC, Great Midwest, American South, and CUSA didnot get autobids right off the bat.

Have you seen the NCAA manual since the SAve-the-WAC rule was passed?
01-30-2016 08:45 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #50
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 08:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 07:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  #
(01-30-2016 03:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 02:59 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  They changed the rules already. In 2011. I'm pretty sure you're just trolling at this point.

Not trolling. You and others just don't get it. The Big East didn't have any favors done to them to get an autobid, no matter what you think.

"Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.

The NCAA formerly had a rule where new DI teams could transition over five years and then over eight years become a core member and form a conference. The term "core member" was dropped and the transition was dropped to four years, but DII schools can only move up if they had a bid from an existing confernce. The eight year continuity rule remains in place, as shown by the new Big East getting an autobid. New conferences by definition can no longer form from DII members, so those rules became superfluous and we're dropped.

All the rules about a new conference forming from DII moveups went away, not the continuity requirements that went with them. There is still eight years continuity for seven members. The P5 wants that to protect themselves from an unforseen event, i.e. something worse than Paterno. The new Big East took advantage of it. As a Big East fan on this board it must be pretty shameful not to know that, so understand that your pride was wounded.

I been following the rules since I was a teen in the 70s. They've changeded massively from the days the Big South and Transamerica moved to DI from DII. The MWC, Great Midwest, American South, and CUSA didnot get autobids right off the bat.

Have you seen the NCAA manual since the SAve-the-WAC rule was passed?
The NCAA no longer requires continuity within an existing autobid conference. That's why the American kept it's autobid too. Not just a special rule for the WAC.
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2016 10:09 PM by NoDak.)
01-30-2016 10:08 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #51
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 10:08 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 08:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 07:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  #
(01-30-2016 03:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 03:10 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Not trolling. You and others just don't get it. The Big East didn't have any favors done to them to get an autobid, no matter what you think.

"Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.

The NCAA formerly had a rule where new DI teams could transition over five years and then over eight years become a core member and form a conference. The term "core member" was dropped and the transition was dropped to four years, but DII schools can only move up if they had a bid from an existing confernce. The eight year continuity rule remains in place, as shown by the new Big East getting an autobid. New conferences by definition can no longer form from DII members, so those rules became superfluous and we're dropped.

All the rules about a new conference forming from DII moveups went away, not the continuity requirements that went with them. There is still eight years continuity for seven members. The P5 wants that to protect themselves from an unforseen event, i.e. something worse than Paterno. The new Big East took advantage of it. As a Big East fan on this board it must be pretty shameful not to know that, so understand that your pride was wounded.

I been following the rules since I was a teen in the 70s. They've changeded massively from the days the Big South and Transamerica moved to DI from DII. The MWC, Great Midwest, American South, and CUSA didnot get autobids right off the bat.

Have you seen the NCAA manual since the SAve-the-WAC rule was passed?
The NCAA no longer requires continuity within an existing autobid conference. That's why the American kept it's autobid too. Not just a special rule for the WAC.

The NCAA still requires "continuity." They've just changed the meaning of continuity in the NCAA rules from "X schools for Y years" to "sponsor X sports continuously for 8 years."

The Big East pre-nup was written under the old rules, and were based on the assumption that the old rules would still be in play. That was surely a big factor in the Big East getting our autobid. But by the rules in the NCAA manual, we didn't qualify for it.
01-30-2016 10:29 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #52
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 10:29 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 10:08 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 08:45 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 07:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  #
(01-30-2016 03:12 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  "Others", including the people who wrote the NCAA manual. Those dopes don't get it. NoDak knows the score.

The NCAA formerly had a rule where new DI teams could transition over five years and then over eight years become a core member and form a conference. The term "core member" was dropped and the transition was dropped to four years, but DII schools can only move up if they had a bid from an existing confernce. The eight year continuity rule remains in place, as shown by the new Big East getting an autobid. New conferences by definition can no longer form from DII members, so those rules became superfluous and we're dropped.

All the rules about a new conference forming from DII moveups went away, not the continuity requirements that went with them. There is still eight years continuity for seven members. The P5 wants that to protect themselves from an unforseen event, i.e. something worse than Paterno. The new Big East took advantage of it. As a Big East fan on this board it must be pretty shameful not to know that, so understand that your pride was wounded.

I been following the rules since I was a teen in the 70s. They've changeded massively from the days the Big South and Transamerica moved to DI from DII. The MWC, Great Midwest, American South, and CUSA didnot get autobids right off the bat.

Have you seen the NCAA manual since the SAve-the-WAC rule was passed?
The NCAA no longer requires continuity within an existing autobid conference. That's why the American kept it's autobid too. Not just a special rule for the WAC.

The NCAA still requires "continuity." They've just changed the meaning of continuity in the NCAA rules from "X schools for Y years" to "sponsor X sports continuously for 8 years."

The Big East pre-nup was written under the old rules, and were based on the assumption that the old rules would still be in play. That was surely a big factor in the Big East getting our autobid. But by the rules in the NCAA manual, we didn't qualify for it.

Any conference can lose all its members but one and backfill with others but still be retain its autobid conference. Which is what happened essentially to the WAC and American, only the AAC had a bigger core group.

Having seven members with eight years association in the old Big East gave the new Big East it's new autobid. No one in the NCAA voted on the existence of the new Big East.

If the new Big East had only six members from the old Big East, it would not have had an men's bball autobid today, but would have multiple sports getting autobids in all sports right away except men's bb.
01-30-2016 11:46 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #53
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 11:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Having seven members with eight years association in the old Big East gave the new Big East it's new autobid. No one in the NCAA voted on the existence of the new Big East.

And the reality:
Quote: The Division I Board of Directors on Thursday officially recognized the prospective Big East Conference as a Division I multisport conference, effective Aug. 1.

Quote: If the new Big East had only six members from the old Big East, it would not have had an men's bball autobid today, but would have multiple sports getting autobids in all sports right away except men's bb.
That would have been true under the previous continuity bylaw, but that requirement was removed.

Now, it may be that that actual continuity was what convinced the Board of Directors to officially recognize the Big East Conferences as a Division I multisport conference, so that lacking it might have made it harder to get approval, but the bylaws are explicit. The only language in the only multi-year requirement is no longer in the past tense, it is in the future tense: the Big East has to maintain the sports membership requirements for eight years going forward from the date it started as a DivI multi-sports conference in order to establish continuity ... then, having established continuity, the "WAC" / "AAC" rules that incumbent conferences don't really have to maintain continuity any more will apply.

Indeed, the single sport example which was raised up as a "proof" demonstrates what kind of language is required for that kind of "continuity" requirement to be in place, and that language is missing from the amended bylaws for multi-sport conferences.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 12:17 AM by BruceMcF.)
01-31-2016 12:11 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #54
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-31-2016 12:11 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 11:46 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Having seven members with eight years association in the old Big East gave the new Big East it's new autobid. No one in the NCAA voted on the existence of the new Big East.

And the reality:
Quote: The Division I Board of Directors on Thursday officially recognized the prospective Big East Conference as a Division I multisport conference, effective Aug. 1.

Quote: If the new Big East had only six members from the old Big East, it would not have had an men's bball autobid today, but would have multiple sports getting autobids in all sports right away except men's bb.
That would have been true under the previous continuity bylaw, but that requirement was removed.

Now, it may be that that actual continuity was what convinced the Board of Directors to officially recognize the Big East Conferences as a Division I multisport conference, so that lacking it might have made it harder to get approval, but the bylaws are explicit. The only language in the only multi-year requirement is no longer in the past tense, it is in the future tense: the Big East has to maintain the sports membership requirements for eight years going forward from the date it started as a DivI multi-sports conference in order to establish continuity ... then, having established continuity, the "WAC" / "AAC" rules that incumbent conferences don't really have to maintain continuity any more will apply.

Indeed, the single sport example which was raised up as a "proof" demonstrates what kind of language is required for that kind of "continuity" requirement to be in place, and that language is missing from the amended bylaws for multi-sport conferences.

Recognition is entirely different than voting. Attending a wedding or funeral is recognizing that it happened. No vote occurred.

A multisport conference can first get single sports autobids, and then later go for a men's bb autobid.

So the new Big East was saved by the old rules, and simultaneously the American retained it's autobid by the new rules is what you are saying.

I say the new rules allow an orderly split of the old Big East, which is what indeed happened.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2016 01:05 AM by NoDak.)
01-31-2016 12:30 AM
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Post: #55
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-31-2016 12:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Recognition is entirely different than voting. Attending a wedding or funeral is recognizing that it happened. No vote occurred.

If you read the linked PDF, there was a vote. See Item 5 on page 4.


5.Election of New Division I Multi-Sport Conference.

The Board reviewed the application for Division I conference membership submitted by a new Big East Conference, which will be operational as of July 1, 2013. The application included a check in the appropriate amount for annual dues, as well as a copy of the draft of the conference’s bylaws. The conference also requested that the Board elect it as a Division I core conference, since it
meets all requirements for inclusion in the governance and championships structure. The new Big East Conference consists of 10 institutions and would be classified in the Division I subdivision (no football). [Reference Supplement No. 5.]

BOARD ACTION: The Board voted to approve the Big East Conference as a Division I core conference to be added to the Division I governance and championships structure, effective for NCAA purposes on August 1, 2013. (Unanimous voice vote.) (Harvey and Peters not present.) [Reference Proposal No. 2013-12.]
01-31-2016 01:27 AM
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Post: #56
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-31-2016 01:27 AM)trephin Wrote:  
(01-31-2016 12:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Recognition is entirely different than voting. Attending a wedding or funeral is recognizing that it happened. No vote occurred.

If you read the linked PDF, there was a vote. See Item 5 on page 4.


5.Election of New Division I Multi-Sport Conference.

The Board reviewed the application for Division I conference membership submitted by a new Big East Conference, which will be operational as of July 1, 2013. The application included a check in the appropriate amount for annual dues, as well as a copy of the draft of the conference’s bylaws. The conference also requested that the Board elect it as a Division I core conference, since it
meets all requirements for inclusion in the governance and championships structure. The new Big East Conference consists of 10 institutions and would be classified in the Division I subdivision (no football). [Reference Supplement No. 5.]

BOARD ACTION: The Board voted to approve the Big East Conference as a Division I core conference to be added to the Division I governance and championships structure, effective for NCAA purposes on August 1, 2013. (Unanimous voice vote.) (Harvey and Peters not present.) [Reference Proposal No. 2013-12.]

He's just trolling and deliberately ignoring reality. I linked that same item 25 posts above in this thread, here.
01-31-2016 01:41 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #57
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-31-2016 12:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Recognition is entirely different than voting. Attending a wedding or funeral is recognizing that it happened. No vote occurred.
Except there was in fact a vote.

Quote: A multisport conference can first get single sports autobids, and then later go for a men's bb autobid.
Sure it could ... the single sports autobids are based on two year's of what used to be called continuity, so if they have two year of that, they could go for that.

And if they were not interested in having the men's BBall autobid, they could wait to apply for recognition as a multi-sports conference as long as they wished to. Nothing forced them to apply.

Quote: So the new Big East was saved by the old rules,
The new Big East qualified under the new rules. The old rules are no longer in force, and have no ability to save anybody.

Quote: and simultaneously the American retained it's autobid by the new rules is what you are saying.
They were the ones saved by the new rules ... which makes sense, since they were in a position very similar to that of the WAC.

Quote: I say the new rules allow an orderly split of the old Big East, which is what indeed happened.
Yes it did. It did not do so in the way that you say, but since you have no need of evidence to reach your conclusions, there's nothing that mere evidence-based argument can do to change your mind.
01-31-2016 02:01 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #58
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-30-2016 12:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-30-2016 12:31 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The Big East got the autobid because after they were voted into the non-FB subdivision list, they met all the criteria.

You're correct, Bruce. Here is the report of the NCAA board meeting at which the new Big East was voted in. See item 5: "The Board voted to approve the Big East Conference as a Division I core conference to be added to the Division I governance and championships structure, effective for NCAA purposes on August 1, 2013. "


Here is the question about MVFC with Wichita State adding football just in case, decides to break away from the non-football schools to form a new conference?

Illinois State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Wichita State

Western Illinois
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State from Summit

Youngstown State

They could be FBS, and they pick up Eastern Kentucky to make 12.

What would happen to the MVC's non-football schools? Would they join up with the Summit schools?
01-31-2016 03:43 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #59
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
(01-29-2016 08:24 PM)NoDak Wrote:  False. The eight years started in the old Big East. Look it up from news sources.
The news sources I looked up had a mix of people who thought the pre-2011 rules still applied and people who assumed the Big East would have to apply for a waver.

Quote: The NCAA wasn't just being nice to the New Big East. The old Big East helped fashion the rules at the insistence of the C7.
According to the last amendment date, the rules presently in force were those fashioned to allow the WAC to continue to survive. Indeed, there is at NCAA.com a WAC press release about the rule change that specifies that it was precisely for that purpose:
http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/2011-01-19...-auto-bids
Quote: DENVER -- At the NCAA convention held last week in San Antonio, new legislation was passed establishing conference membership based on the qualifications of a league's members instead of the continuity requirements currently in place. This legislation ensures that the Western Athletic Conference will retain its automatic bids to NCAA tournaments in all sports when it goes through a transition period in 2012 due to previously announced membership changes.

The new rules basically stipulate that a conference must have seven active Division I members that sponsor men's and women's basketball and that the conference sponsor a minimum of six men's sports and six women's sports.

The WAC's membership for the 2012-13 season will include current members Idaho, Louisiana Tech, New Mexico State, San Jose State and Utah State along with three new members announced last year: Denver (non-football), Texas State and UTSA. These eight schools ensure that the WAC meets the new NCAA Division I membership requirements as the conference moves forward.
01-31-2017 08:45 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #60
RE: IF I'm reading the NCAA bylaws right, new conference takes 8 yrs to earn autobid
Whatever happened, or why it it happened, or how it happened, we are glad the Big East is where it is today. I have no doubt that the AAC/BE split was complicated legally, but that it was done the right way since it was such a historic and monumental conference realignment topic.

This is a very interesting topic for the G5, however. It could lead to a push for smaller non-P5 leagues, as it would help immensely with for basketball tournament purposes.
01-31-2017 09:05 AM
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