(03-23-2016 03:51 PM)kreed5120 Wrote:  I'll just go ahead and quote what I said on page 8

"I feel any serious MAC expansion talk needs to start with JMU. They have an FBS caliber stadium, they have made FCS playoffs 6 out of the last 10 years, their basketball program would be an instant contender in the MAC, they expand the MAC footprint east which appears to align with the MAC goal, and it is well noted that they are interested in making the jump."

This thread has run its course.

JMU with UMass would have been wunderbar. With Umass out, I'd be tempted to try for a MO State + Ark State or the like. It would be nice to play a few late-season games in 60 degree weather.

re: exapnding beyond 12 teams.

before you discuss WHO should be added beyond the current 12 you need to convince me WHY we should be adding beyond our current 12.

(03-23-2016 10:56 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  re: exapnding beyond 12 teams.

before you discuss WHO should be added beyond the current 12 you need to convince me WHY we should be adding beyond our current 12.

This. There is absolutely no value in MAC expansion unless some teams leave or some real powerful team (UC, Marshall, Temple?) which would add value to the league wants to join. We get one NCAA bid. ONE! Going to 14 or 16 teams just makes the odds that much harder and would also cost each team money from the football playoff pool.

(03-23-2016 10:56 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  re: exapnding beyond 12 teams.

before you discuss WHO should be added beyond the current 12 you need to convince me WHY we should be adding beyond our current 12.

(03-23-2016 10:56 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  re: exapnding beyond 12 teams.

before you discuss WHO should be added beyond the current 12 you need to convince me WHY we should be adding beyond our current 12.

Unless it's with the right team, absolutely no reason.

Except, if there was a long list of teams that would help out the MAC and want to join the MAC ... the MAC would have already invited them.

So really, this topic can be set aside unless and until there is some more conference realignment that upsets the status quo. The present agenda is not about changing the MAC by changing the schools in the MAC, but the long term hard work of changing the MAC by improving the standing of its current programs. Even if hard work is more boring than speculating about changing the conference line-up.

In the past we brought in teams for football only.
Why not bring in teams for basketball only?
I think Valpo and DePaul would be nice additions.
For Valpo it would be a step up and maybe DePaul would switch after so many years of being in a Conference they can't compete in.

(04-01-2016 12:46 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  In the past we brought in teams for football only.
Why not bring in teams for basketball only?
I think Valpo and DePaul would be nice additions.
For Valpo it would be a step up and maybe DePaul would switch after so many years of being in a Conference they can't compete in.

DePaul makes bank in the Big East. No way would they leave willingly.

More basketball teams = the more mouths you have to feed come time to distributing tourney money. Adding those teams doesn't make me believe the MAC could consistently become a 2 bid league. Valpo would be better off trying for a A10 spot or settling for MVC. If Wichita leaves MVC and A10 won't take them, I don't see the point of Valpo moving. I don't feel the MAC and MVC in that scenario would be that much better to go thru the hassle of a conference change.

Now if the MAC could regularly send a team to the sweet 16 and the MAC could get an at-large every 2-3 years, the MAC becomes a more appealing option.

Edit: I feel plucking a team from the OVC might be feasible. I'd say Belmont would be the choose, but I don't feel they move the needle enough to make a significant impact to make the MAC a 2 bid league.

What are these people smoking?

(03-21-2016 03:48 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 03:59 PM)Michigan_Dane Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 01:28 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  

(03-20-2016 12:05 PM)Michigan_Dane Wrote:  Added to this

1) Albany and Stony Brook do not add a new state to the MAC footprint thus keeping travel costs low.
2) The MAC would own NY FBS football
3) Both would be logical for all sports not that football only nonsense

Isn't not adding to the MAC footprint a bad thing?

The MAC is constantly referred to as a "bus league" in all my readings. Modest athletic budgets in the $20M - $30M range.

Do you have the extra funds to fly all your non-revenue Olympic sports to Virginia? Lots of extra cash laying around?

New York's Capital District has a metro population of 1.1M people. Just after Buffalo and New Orleans with no pro teams or competing FBS schools.

Yes I do have a lot of extra cash laying around, thank you. And for NIU, these schools are bad for travel, not good. Also, I think the Pig10 would have something to say about the MAC "owning" NY's college football loyalty.

If you're referring to Rutger's then you don't know New York. No one in New York cares about Rutgers. Only a Midwestern would make that expensive mistake.

Stony Brook has displaced Hofstra and Albany has displace Siena.

(03-22-2016 02:35 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:24 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Might not be enough to get UMass back but if they keep getting rejected by AAC you never know...

---EAST---
Akron
Buffalo
Delaware
JMU
Kent State
Ohio
Stony Brook
UMass (ODU/App St)

---WEST---
Ball State
Bowling Green
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Miami (OH)
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Western Michigan

That might be the worse MAC East since the conference went to divisions.

I'm glad everyone on this board is pragmatic. Why not target Notre Dame for your expansion?!?

Albany and Stony Brook are quickly growing sports programs in one of the largest and wealthiest states in the country. As an example, Albany just picked up a $10,000,000 private football donation. Both the Albany and SBU AD budget is double what it was less than 10 years ago. They'll double again before 10 years.

The MAC picked up SUNY Buffalo in the 90s and that seems to have worked pretty well. There are only 4 SUNY Centers and only 3 support football. That leaves these 2. The tv market for the capital district is the same size as Buffalo with no pro/FBS teams within 2 hour drive.

The good news is that the decision makers are not on this board and two it's all about the numbers. The numbers add up

(04-01-2016 12:46 PM)huskie1stdown Wrote:  In the past we brought in teams for football only.
Why not bring in teams for basketball only?

Technically, it would be for Olympic-sports. Since all multi-sport division 1 conferences have to sponsor BBall, there's no incentive in any conference taking all of a school's sports other than BBall.

But who? It'd have to be four ... no two adds would suddenly lift the MAC two steps from it's current status to an NCAA multi-bid conference ... two steps, since where the MAC is now at, it's regular season champion would typically require the NIT autobid to get into the NIT, never mind an at-large bid for the NCAA.

And where would four schools like that come from? Never mind the new Big East, no strong BBall school in the A10 would consider it. The Shockers would not be better off, overall, in the MAC than in the Missouri Valley.

There really isn't one plausible prospect who would be part of that four ... never mind four.

So that's why.

Instead of easy and quick fixes, there's the long term, hard grind of building up the programs that are already in the conference to get to the point that the regular season champion is an obvious NIT at-large pick and in a very good year on the bubble for the NCAA tourney, and then from there to the point where there are multiple teams on the bubble toward the end of the conference regular season.

(04-02-2016 09:33 AM)Michigan_Dane Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:35 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 02:24 PM)2Buck Wrote:  Might not be enough to get UMass back but if they keep getting rejected by AAC you never know...

---EAST---
Akron
Buffalo
Delaware
JMU
Kent State
Ohio
Stony Brook
UMass (ODU/App St)

---WEST---
Ball State
Bowling Green
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Miami (OH)
Northern Illinois
Toledo
Western Michigan

That might be the worse MAC East since the conference went to divisions.

I'm glad everyone on this board is pragmatic. Why not target Notre Dame for your expansion?!?

Albany and Stony Brook are quickly growing sports programs in one of the largest and wealthiest states in the country. As an example, Albany just picked up a $10,000,000 private football donation. Both the Albany and SBU AD budget is double what it was less than 10 years ago. They'll double again before 10 years.

The MAC picked up SUNY Buffalo in the 90s and that seems to have worked pretty well. There are only 4 SUNY Centers and only 3 support football. That leaves these 2. The tv market for the capital district is the same size as Buffalo with no pro/FBS teams within 2 hour drive.

The good news is that the decision makers are not on this board and two it's all about the numbers. The numbers add up

If you have a great Italian restaurant and it works in Buffalo, sure why not try it in Albany and even Stony Brook if its on a main street.

With the MAC we aren't talking restaurant franchises. We are talking zero sum recruiting. More restaurants doesn't make for more customers (recruits). All it does is divide them more ways. The MAC would be stronger comparatively vs. the American East conference by adding Albany and SBU but it doesn't do anything meaningful for the conference.

The MAC adds Wichita and it adds the best restaurant in its neighborhood to its franchise, greatly diminishing its prime competitor the MVC. A school that is getting better recruits than the MAC is now part of the MAC.

In the East Coast there is the Atlantic 10 and out West there is the WCC. There is space for a conference on that level in the Midwest after the B1G and Big East. MVC sort of fills the niche but doesn't have a presence in Ohio, Michigan or Wisconsin. The MAC is not in Iowa, Missouri and Kansas. The Horizon at one time had schools like Xavier and Notre Dame in it but is now further down the food chain.

If you could put into the MAC Wichita State, Missouri St, Illinois State....3 of the stronger properties in the MVC and bring in a property like Milwaukee from the Horizon which made a Sweet 16 a few years back most definitely the MAC would be a multibid conference. Those schools would have more secure long term futures by being Olympic Sports members of a G5 conference with greater representation in the NCAA management structure.

Taking Wichita, ISU, MSU and Milwaukee would have a devastating effect on the MVC and Horizon which is what the MAC needs. I am just not sure what Albany & Stony Brook would accomplish for the MAC.

(04-03-2016 01:45 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If you could put into the MAC Wichita State, Missouri St, Illinois State .... 3 of the stronger properties in the MVC and bring in a property like Milwaukee from the Horizon which made a Sweet 16 a few years back most definitely the MAC would be a multibid conference.

Note that this is quintessential Conference Realignment Risk game playing.

Also note that, no, it wouldn't "most definitely" make the MAC a multibid conference.

Let's look at the power rankings. I'll take Pomeroy's

7 Wichita St
91 Akron
116 Illinois St
117 Milwaukee
127 Toledo
131 Buffalo
139 Ohio
150 Ball St
151 EMU
156 CMU
169 NIU
181 Kent St
183 WMU
220 Bowling Green
238 MiamiU
240 Missouri St

It makes the MAC a single bid school that might be a bubble buster if Wichita State has an NCAA resume but is upset in the conference tournament.

(04-03-2016 09:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 01:45 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If you could put into the MAC Wichita State, Missouri St, Illinois State .... 3 of the stronger properties in the MVC and bring in a property like Milwaukee from the Horizon which made a Sweet 16 a few years back most definitely the MAC would be a multibid conference.

Note that this is quintessential Conference Realignment Risk game playing.

Also note that, no, it wouldn't "most definitely" make the MAC a multibid conference.

Let's look at the power rankings. I'll take Pomeroy's

7 Wichita St
91 Akron
116 Illinois St
117 Milwaukee
127 Toledo
131 Buffalo
139 Ohio
150 Ball St
151 EMU
156 CMU
169 NIU
181 Kent St
183 WMU
220 Bowling Green
238 MiamiU
240 Missouri St

It makes the MAC a single bid school that might be a bubble buster if Wichita State has an NCAA resume but is upset in the conference tournament.

That assumes the MAC would stay the same in recruiting, which it wouldn't.

(04-03-2016 09:35 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 09:28 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 01:45 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If you could put into the MAC Wichita State, Missouri St, Illinois State .... 3 of the stronger properties in the MVC and bring in a property like Milwaukee from the Horizon which made a Sweet 16 a few years back most definitely the MAC would be a multibid conference.

Note that this is quintessential Conference Realignment Risk game playing.

Also note that, no, it wouldn't "most definitely" make the MAC a multibid conference.

Let's look at the power rankings. I'll take Pomeroy's

7 Wichita St
91 Akron
116 Illinois St
117 Milwaukee
127 Toledo
131 Buffalo
139 Ohio
150 Ball St
151 EMU
156 CMU
169 NIU
181 Kent St
183 WMU
220 Bowling Green
238 MiamiU
240 Missouri St

It makes the MAC a single bid school that might be a bubble buster if Wichita State has an NCAA resume but is upset in the conference tournament.

That assumes the MAC would stay the same in recruiting, which it wouldn't.

Exactly. All the MVC level recruits would be heading to the MAC.

If at that same time the MAC matched the top RPI teams with 1 for 1 series then RPI numbers would pop like they do in the A10.

(04-02-2016 09:33 AM)Michigan_Dane Wrote:  Albany and Stony Brook are quickly growing sports programs in one of the largest and wealthiest states in the country.

Albany the school is shedding students, no thank you.

Quote:The good news is that the decision makers are not on this board and two it's all about the numbers. The numbers add up

They add up to the MAC not needing another SUNY school...

If the MAC expands, and I really hope it does not, it will need to grow south and west not north and east.

(04-02-2016 09:14 AM)Michigan_Dane Wrote:  Stony Brook has displaced Hofstra and Albany has displace Siena.

Albany's done what to Siena now?

NY Hoops attendance this past season

Siena 6,532
Albany 3,161

Albany has beaten Siena 3 of the past 4 years. Been to the NCAAs 3 of the past 4 years.

The Albany game is by far the biggest draw for Siena at 12,000 attendees. That gets credited as a Siena game. Remove the Albany game attendance and what's Siena's average attendance?