I found these guys

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-info.../diy-solar


They look pretty legit. I think I can do this myself.

(01-26-2016 01:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I found these guys

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-info.../diy-solar


They look pretty legit. I think I can do this myself.

Make sure you have an electrician check all your work and handle the disconnects and breaker tie ins. You'll have some permitting hoops to jump through too. It's not plug and play.

Actually attaching them to the roof is easy though. Some L brackets will do the job. Simply attach to panel then drill into studs in the roof (make sure you use flashing to protect from leaks).

Leave a 2-3 inch gap between the roof and the panel. You don't want them sitting flat on the roof because panels become less efficient when they get hot. Leaving a 2-3 inch gap for airflow will keep them cooler and help them work better. It'll also help decrease your overall electrical needs because part of your roof will no longer be directly absorbing the sun's heat. The panels will be, but the airflow under the panels will keep that heat from transferring to your roof, which means your air conditioning system won't have to work as hard to keep the home cool.

(01-26-2016 01:29 PM)Niner National Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 01:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  I found these guys

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-info.../diy-solar


They look pretty legit. I think I can do this myself.

Make sure you have an electrician check all your work and handle the disconnects and breaker tie ins. You'll have some permitting hoops to jump through too. It's not plug and play.

Actually attaching them to the roof is easy though. Some L brackets will do the job. Simply attach to panel then drill into studs in the roof (make sure you use flashing to protect from leaks).

Leave a 2-3 inch gap between the roof and the panel. You don't want them sitting flat on the roof because panels become less efficient when they get hot. Leaving a 2-3 inch gap for airflow will keep them cooler and help them work better. It'll also help decrease your overall electrical needs because part of your roof will no longer be directly absorbing the sun's heat. The panels will be, but the airflow under the panels will keep that heat from transferring to your roof, which means your air conditioning system won't have to work as hard to keep the home cool.

The website I provided has a DYI starter kit with everything you need to start with one panel and it's expandable to additional panels.

I think I can do everything except the hook up myself. After that, it shouldn't be hard to expand the system over time.

The reason for the pushback from the power companies regarding solar isn't so much a lack of utility, but the wholesale changes that need to made to the grid to accept it.

Most folks like the idea of walking over to a light switch with the expectation that it will turn on without delay. Unlike say India, the possibility of rolling brownout is limited in the US. Achieving this level of reliability is an engineering feat on par with the Interstate Highway System in terms of coverage.



The above is the daily power usage for the US throughout the year. This is the rolling waveform that the power industry tries to meet. They have to have the capacity to meet peak demand, but the need for that level of power is limited. The utilities match that by having baseline operations that meet the average demand while having peak shaving units on standby as needed.

When available and operated by power companies, renewables can be a useful alternative to idling gas turbine units to meet that high demand windows. If the rooftop solar power folks were using the energy they collect for themselves the power company wouldn't have a problem. The challenge that utilities are facing is that the rooftop folks want the utilities to buy the power they have collected. Keep in mind, your home outlet is 125 V while utilities are routinely moving 230-500 kV.

It constitutes a significant cost to upgrade the system to accept these mirco-generating platforms, which are of cost passed on to regular ratepayers.

(01-26-2016 03:43 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  The reason for the pushback from the power companies regarding solar isn't so much a lack of utility, but the wholesale changes that need to made to the grid to accept it.

Most folks like the idea of walking over to a light switch with the expectation that it will turn on without delay. Unlike say India, the possibility of rolling brownout is limited in the US. Achieving this level of reliability is an engineering feat on par with the Interstate Highway System in terms of coverage.



The above is the daily power usage for the US throughout the year. This is the rolling waveform that the power industry tries to meet. They have to have the capacity to meet peak demand, but the need for that level of power is limited. The utilities match that by having baseline operations that meet the average demand while having peak shaving units on standby as needed.

When available and operated by power companies, renewables can be a useful alternative to idling gas turbine units to meet that high demand windows. If the rooftop solar power folks were using the energy they collect for themselves the power company wouldn't have a problem. The challenge that utilities are facing is that the rooftop folks want the utilities to buy the power they have collected. Keep in mind, your home outlet is 125 V while utilities are routinely moving 230-500 kV.

It constitutes a significant cost to upgrade the system to accept these mirco-generating platforms, which are of cost passed on to regular ratepayers.

I disagree. Most people just want to save money. If they can do that by supplementing some of their power consumption through solar, the electric companies should be encouraging that instead of discouraging it.

(01-26-2016 03:43 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  When available and operated by power companies, renewables can be a useful alternative to idling gas turbine units to meet that high demand windows.

Solar helps out the peak daytime, and especially airconditioning load times, on the grid as solar is producing the most power during these times.

Quote: If the rooftop solar power folks were using the energy they collect
for themselves the power company wouldn't have a problem. The challenge that utilities are facing is that the rooftop folks want the utilities to buy the power they have collected.

The issue with this is peak power usage, idle power usage, and no-solar time usage.

A house sitting idle (where the AC isnt running, and the refigerator/freezers are on their off cycles) will typically draw in the neighborhood of 500 watts. So any solar system that can deliver more than 500 watts during an idle period would see that power wasted unless it could store that power somewhere. Have a 5KW system, and your house draws 500 watts at idle time? You would be wasting 4,500 watts. (There is some loss of efficiency in these systems, so a 5000 watt system may be delivering 4000 watts total, for a true waste of 3500 watts)

The issue is what to do with this excess power. And what happens when your house hits peak power, where it may need to draw 15,000 watts of power.

Net metering a grid-tied system allows a consumer to take the excess solar power not used by the house, and put it back out on the grid. Its not so much "selling" electricity, as it is storing it for later use at the same price. Most consumers would not be able to scale a solar system large enough to handle their entire energy requirements, so there is almost always going to be power that hsa to be purchased from the grid. Solar can certainly reduce the peak demand for electricity, as it would normally be delivering its highest output at some of the highest demand periods.

Quote:Keep in mind, your home outlet is 125 V while utilities are routinely moving 230-500 kV.

The power we put back out onto the grid will actually scale back up to that of voltage of the transmission lines as it goes backwards through the transformers.

Quote:It constitutes a significant cost to upgrade the system to accept these mirco-generating platforms, which are of cost passed on to regular ratepayers.

That I dont see. Some utility companies may want you to use a smart meter to grid-tie, but they already want us to use them. There is nothing else on their side of the meter that has to be done for a grid tie system, its all done on the consumer's side on the consumers dime.

(01-26-2016 04:11 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-26-2016 03:43 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  The reason for the pushback from the power companies regarding solar isn't so much a lack of utility, but the wholesale changes that need to made to the grid to accept it.

Most folks like the idea of walking over to a light switch with the expectation that it will turn on without delay. Unlike say India, the possibility of rolling brownout is limited in the US. Achieving this level of reliability is an engineering feat on par with the Interstate Highway System in terms of coverage.



The above is the daily power usage for the US throughout the year. This is the rolling waveform that the power industry tries to meet. They have to have the capacity to meet peak demand, but the need for that level of power is limited. The utilities match that by having baseline operations that meet the average demand while having peak shaving units on standby as needed.

When available and operated by power companies, renewables can be a useful alternative to idling gas turbine units to meet that high demand windows. If the rooftop solar power folks were using the energy they collect for themselves the power company wouldn't have a problem. The challenge that utilities are facing is that the rooftop folks want the utilities to buy the power they have collected. Keep in mind, your home outlet is 125 V while utilities are routinely moving 230-500 kV.

It constitutes a significant cost to upgrade the system to accept these mirco-generating platforms, which are of cost passed on to regular ratepayers.

I disagree. Most people just want to save money. If they can do that by supplementing some of their power consumption through solar, the electric companies should be encouraging that instead of discouraging it.

the power company buying your electricity is a big part of saving money. Many systems actually overproduce during the day. People are away at work, so home electricity consumption is fairly low, especially if you've programmed your HVAC system not to run frequently while you're away. In the day, you build up a credit, then at night you work that credit off.

If the power company doesn't have to credit you for the excess you send back onto the grid, it makes the investment far less valuable because you're going to pay for the electricity you use at night. With net metering laws that require the power company buy your excess power, you're essentially using the grid as a battery.

I'm okay with connection charges so people aren't taking advantage of the benefits of the grid without contributing anything, but I'm also in favor of requiring net metering.

(01-21-2016 02:18 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

Quote:SolarCity has a business model that relies on investors and government tax breaks and grants. Since its 2006 inception, taxpayers have paid $1 billion in subsidies. The company has never made a profit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/...tcmp=hpbt2

How many oil companies have gone under(or are struggling) with the crash of oil prices?

Thought y'all might find this interesting.
Best and Worst States for Rooftop Panels