(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

CERTAINLY better in football. My god Kansas is bad.

(01-04-2016 04:19 PM)Groo Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

How is that crazy? UConn football is better than Kansas football and so is UConn basketball. UConn has 4 national titles in men's basketball (1999, 2004, 2011, 2014) and Kansas only has 3 (1952, 1988, 2008). Note that all of UConn's happened in recent times. Being great in 1952 or 1988 is ancient history and doesn't mean all that much.

(01-04-2016 04:25 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:19 PM)Groo Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

How is that crazy? UConn football is better than Kansas football and so is UConn basketball. UConn has 4 national titles in men's basketball (1999, 2004, 2011, 2014) and Kansas only has 3 (1952, 1988, 2008). Note that all of UConn's happened in recent times. Being great in 1952 or 1988 is ancient history and doesn't mean all that much.

I'm a UMass fan and I agree with this.

The Big 12 isn't expanding unless it has to. And right now, it doesn't have to.

(01-04-2016 04:25 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:19 PM)Groo Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

How is that crazy? UConn football is better than Kansas football and so is UConn basketball. UConn has 4 national titles in men's basketball (1999, 2004, 2011, 2014) and Kansas only has 3 (1952, 1988, 2008). Note that all of UConn's happened in recent times. Being great in 1952 or 1988 is ancient history and doesn't mean all that much.

Unless you think that Indiana is a better program than Duke and Kansas, or that UCLA is clearly the best of all time, using purely NCAA Championships to determine this just doesn't work.

Here is a tale of the tape.


* Numbers good thru 2013
** Including 26 in a row and counting
Note the ESPN 50 for 50 was a ranking of all division I college basketball programs done in 2012 that evaluated programs based on wins, conference titles, NCAA performance, and NBA draft picks during that time. Note due to the time it was done, covering only 1962-2012, it does not include UConn's fourth championship, nor Kansas' first championship (or their first four final fours), so the two should be considered even in that regard.

Kansas also has 3 pre-tournament championships FWIW

Unless you count only tournament titles, this statement really doesn't hold up. Especially since, while you can never take away a title, two of UConn's were somewhat fluky, and not a representation of dominance that season. As for UConn football vs. Kansas football, Kansas football does have a BCS win the last decade, with two previous Orange Bowl appearances. UConn has an appearance, again by fluke, and got crushed.

I am not sure this argument works at all.

UConn is not a > program than Kansas. That being said they have the results to put them among the elite programs all-time. If invited to the Big 12 they would by far have the second best basketball tradition in the conference.

UC would be right in there in the top quarter of the conference as well.

The best ranking system I have seen is the ESPN 50 in 50.

You can find it here. . Other than not being updated yearly, it is the best in terms of what it includes. Cincinnati, Louisville, and UConn are probably three schools "hurt" most in the rankings because of having titles cut off right around the timeline (Duke as well, but theirs is minimally affected), but aside from that, it cuts off the dates when the tournament was only 8 or 12 teams, and encompasses everything.


If it helps, I think the all UConn team would beat the all KU team.

5. Kansas (676 points)

Positives: Since 1985-86, the Jayhawks are ranked second behind Duke with 532 points. In that span, they've reached eight Final Fours and won national titles in 1988 and 2008. Kansas has the most points (165) nationally since 2007 and has won eight straight regular-season Big 12 titles.

Negatives: Danny Manning in 1987 was KU's first consensus All-American since Wilt Chamberlain in the 1950s. The Jayhawks lost 17 points under our system due to NCAA sanctions in 1972, 1988 and 2006.

Fun fact: Under Roy Williams, Kansas was one of five teams with at least four 30-win seasons from 1989-2003. The other four teams won a national title during that span (Duke, Kentucky, Arkansas, Connecticut).

Rank by the decade

1962-69: 50 (17th)

1970-79: 75 (14th)

1980-89: 90 (16th)

1990-99: 188 (4th)

2000-present: 273 (2nd)

50 in 50 starting five (1962-present)

G – Kirk Hinrich (1999-2003)

G/F – Paul Pierce (1995-98)

F – Danny Manning (1984-88)

F – Nick Collison (1999-2003)

C – Raef LaFrentz (1994-98)

Top options off the bench

Jo Jo White (1965-69)

Drew Gooden (1999-2002)

Sherron Collins (2006-10)

50 in 50 coach: Bill Self (2003-present)

Best teams (1962-present)

1996-97 (34-2, NCAA Sweet 16)

2001-02 (33-4, NCAA national semifinals)

2007-08 (37-3, NCAA national champion)

--Ryan Feldman and Brett Edgerton contributed to this post


9. Connecticut (423 points)

Positives: Three national championships since 1999, the most of any program in that span. The Huskies have the sixth-most points (349) in the Jim Calhoun era (which began in 1986-87), after having the 51st-most points (74) from 1962-86.

Negatives: UConn has failed to win an NCAA tournament game in four of the past six seasons (six total points in those four years). Had zero NCAA tournament appearances in the 1980s. No 30-win seasons or No. 1 seeds before 1990.

Fun fact: Connecticut has seven top-10 NBA draft picks since 2004, the most of any school.

Rank by the decade

1962-69: 55 (14th)

1970-79: 21 (71st)

1980-89: minus-5 (T-204th)

1990-99: 172 (5th)

2000-present: 180 (T-7th)

50 in 50 starting five (1962-present)

G – Kemba Walker (2008-11)

G – Ray Allen (1993-96)

G/F – Richard "Rip" Hamilton (1996-99)

F – Donyell Marshall (1991-94)

C – Emeka Okafor (2001-04)

Top options off the bench

Caron Butler (2000-02)

Corny Thompson (1978-82)

Chris Smith (1988-92)

50 in 50 coach: Jim Calhoun (1986- )

Best teams (1962-present)

1995-96 (32-3, NCAA Sweet 16)

1998-99 (34-2, NCAA national champions)

2003-04 (33-6, NCAA national champions)

(01-04-2016 05:01 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:25 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:19 PM)Groo Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 04:05 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  UConn would make a good addition. They are certainly equal to Kansas in basketball, maybe better in football. They also bring in a good TV market.

How is that crazy? UConn football is better than Kansas football and so is UConn basketball. UConn has 4 national titles in men's basketball (1999, 2004, 2011, 2014) and Kansas only has 3 (1952, 1988, 2008). Note that all of UConn's happened in recent times. Being great in 1952 or 1988 is ancient history and doesn't mean all that much.

Unless you think that Indiana is a better program than Duke and Kansas, or that UCLA is clearly the best of all time, using purely NCAA Championships to determine this just doesn't work.

Here is a tale of the tape.

Code:

Description    Kansas    Uconn    Winner
AP poll App*    649    319    Kan
AP Poll rank*    5    20    Kan
Avg rk*    7.9    9.4    Kan
ESPN Rk*    5    9    Kan
Titles    3    4    Uconn
Final Four    14    5    Kan
Wins    2153    1641    Kan
Winning PCt    0.722    0.643    Kan
NCAA Apperances**    44    32    Kan
games    139    78    Kan
wins    97    50    Kan
Sweet 16    28    17    Kan
Elite Eight    14    11    Kan
NCAA winning pct*    0.697    0.641    Kan

* Numbers good thru 2013
** Including 26 in a row and counting
Note the ESPN 50 for 50 was a ranking of all division I college basketball programs done in 2012 that evaluated programs based on wins, conference titles, NCAA performance, and NBA draft picks during that time. Note due to the time it was done, covering only 1962-2012, it does not include UConn's fourth championship, nor Kansas' first championship (or their first four final fours), so the two should be considered even in that regard.

Kansas also has 3 pre-tournament championships FWIW

Unless you count only tournament titles, this statement really doesn't hold up. Especially since, while you can never take away a title, two of UConn's were somewhat fluky, and not a representation of dominance that season. As for UConn football vs. Kansas football, Kansas football does have a BCS win the last decade, with two previous Orange Bowl appearances. UConn has an appearance, again by fluke, and got crushed.

I am not sure this argument works at all.

Okay, I will give Kansas the slight nod over UConn if we look beyond only using national championships and go back four decades. However, both programs are fairly similar in recent times. I stick by my statement that nobody gives a hoot what happened in the 50's, 60's, 70's, or 80's at this point, though (and those decades provide a solid portion of your numbers above that heavily favor Kansas).

That said, Connecticut has more television sets than Kansas. If we factor in the television sets from New York City next door, then it is no contest as to who has the better TV market (and at the end of the day, that will be of the utmost importance to the Big 12 if they want to start their own television network.

So, anyone who thinks that UConn can't stack up against Kansas fairly well and that UConn offers the Big 12 nothing is clearly only speaking out of opinion and not fact.
EDIT: I see your additional info. I see that you do think that they stack up. Thanks for all of the data!

The best thing about being a UC alumni is that I'm totally numb to this type of hype. Heard it for so long, it hardly registers anymore. We'll just see what, if anything, happens.

I think the reality is that this thread was posted too soon. Two weeks from today we will see if the Big 12 gets their exemption to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams or if they will be required to go to 12 in order to have one.

If they get their exemption, then this whole discussion was fruitless. If they don't, then we can all discuss it in earnest then.

(01-04-2016 05:42 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think the reality is that this thread was posted too soon. Two weeks from today we will see if the Big 12 gets their exemption to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams or if they will be required to go to 12 in order to have one.

If they get their exemption, then this whole discussion was fruitless. If they don't, then we can all discuss it in earnest then.

Yes, it is clear that the upcoming NCAA meeting will have a big impact, may even be decisive, in terms of whether there will be any B12 expansion in the short run.

(01-04-2016 05:42 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think the reality is that this thread was posted too soon. Two weeks from today we will see if the Big 12 gets their exemption to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams or if they will be required to go to 12 in order to have one.

If they get their exemption, then this whole discussion was fruitless. If they don't, then we can all discuss it in earnest then.

A conference will get to hold a CCG with 10 teams but only if there are divisions per the Big 10 amendment.
Its not that feasible to do that type of setup with 10 teams unless they axed conference games. So really expansion is more or less necessary now.

(01-04-2016 01:40 PM)bluesox Wrote:  If the Big 12 does add Uconn and Cincy it sets up nice for the eventually merger of the Big 12 and ACC into a 27 team league of 3 divisions of 9 post deregulation. Convert LHN into the ACC network.


Atlantic: UVA, Vtech, UNC, Duke, NC state, Wake, Clemson, G Tech, FSU

Coastal: BC, Uconn, Cuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Lville, Miami, ND

Central: Texas, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, OU, Ok state, KU, K State, Io State

Lmfao

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

Of the currently available teams and if forced to expand, I would prefer to see the conference add some combination of BYU, CSU, UC, and Uconn. As far as the difference between UConn and KU, meh, I might be biased.

Houston scored a big win. It may put them over the top. I'm not saying one game is the swing, but when your options are as limited as they are, Houston is a solid bet. Large market, NFL stadium to host OU and UT. Not making travel more ridiculous unlike a BYU or a Florida school, and a better all around option than Memphis, which is a poor man's UL and an admission of defeat. Just solidify what you already have and make the new schools take a pay cut.

(01-04-2016 05:58 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 05:42 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think the reality is that this thread was posted too soon. Two weeks from today we will see if the Big 12 gets their exemption to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams or if they will be required to go to 12 in order to have one.

If they get their exemption, then this whole discussion was fruitless. If they don't, then we can all discuss it in earnest then.

A conference will get to hold a CCG with 10 teams but only if there are divisions per the Big 10 amendment.
Its not that feasible to do that type of setup with 10 teams unless they axed conference games. So really expansion is more or less necessary now.

Why isn't it feasible without axing conference games?

(01-04-2016 03:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Actually Houston and Memphis were both in a BCS conference for one year (2013 when the AAC retained the BCS AQ bid from the old Big East).

Touché!

(01-04-2016 03:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Houston was in the SWC. Saying they weren't in a BCS conference simply because their time in a major college conference predated a certain period in Bowl history is a bit unfair.

Bill Yeoman is angry for having just read that comment.

This, though, I wouldn't agree with. UConn was in a power conference two years ago. Houston was in a power conference 19 years ago.

I'm not saying that this is a fair metric. If it was up to me, I would want a promotion-and-relegation system like English football where Houston would have just earned their promotion.

I'm just speculating that the Big 12 presidents may actually value Cincinnati and UConn as a package duo.

(01-04-2016 05:49 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 05:42 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think the reality is that this thread was posted too soon. Two weeks from today we will see if the Big 12 gets their exemption to stage a conference championship game with 10 teams or if they will be required to go to 12 in order to have one.

If they get their exemption, then this whole discussion was fruitless. If they don't, then we can all discuss it in earnest then.

Yes, it is clear that the upcoming NCAA meeting will have a big impact, may even be decisive, in terms of whether there will be any B12 expansion in the short run.

Bribes might be offered and arms twisted by supporters of both sides of this issue. The outcome is huge.

(01-04-2016 08:04 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(01-04-2016 03:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Actually Houston and Memphis were both in a BCS conference for one year (2013 when the AAC retained the BCS AQ bid from the old Big East).

Touché!

(01-04-2016 03:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Houston was in the SWC. Saying they weren't in a BCS conference simply because their time in a major college conference predated a certain period in Bowl history is a bit unfair.

Bill Yeoman is angry for having just read that comment.

This, though, I wouldn't agree with. UConn was in a power conference two years ago. Houston was in a power conference 19 years ago.

I'm not saying that this is a fair metric. If it was up to me, I would want a promotion-and-relegation system like English football where Houston would have just earned their promotion.

I'm just speculating that the Big 12 presidents may actually value Cincinnati and UConn as a package duo.

The Big East 2.0 was a semi-power conference. It was a tweener. 10 years in a tweener conference isn't a big deal, especially when you were FCS before that.